what intake to use
what intake to use
Well I dynoed my car on the weekend and I was not too happy.
The car only put out 227hp.@5500 and 265lb/ft @3600.My current
set-up is a 355sbc w/10.5:1 compression,600 Holley,Edelbrock
performer intake, crane cam(216/228and.454/.480) Dart sportman
II heads,shorty headers,true dual exhaust.The guy who ran the test seems to think that the carb and intake are choking it.A few
guys I have talked to said that my carb and intake are only stock
replacement parts and not really high performance.I have an
Edelbrock Torker II that came with the car.I know everyone likes
the new RPM AIRGAP but they are a little pricey.I can get a Wiend
Stealth for about half the price.The guy at the shop wants me to
put a victor jr. and a 650 dbl.pmp. on it but I think that would be
overkill.I think a 750 v.s. should be enough.I would like to hear from poeple using either the Stealth or the torker II and hear how you like them
The car only put out 227hp.@5500 and 265lb/ft @3600.My current
set-up is a 355sbc w/10.5:1 compression,600 Holley,Edelbrock
performer intake, crane cam(216/228and.454/.480) Dart sportman
II heads,shorty headers,true dual exhaust.The guy who ran the test seems to think that the carb and intake are choking it.A few
guys I have talked to said that my carb and intake are only stock
replacement parts and not really high performance.I have an
Edelbrock Torker II that came with the car.I know everyone likes
the new RPM AIRGAP but they are a little pricey.I can get a Wiend
Stealth for about half the price.The guy at the shop wants me to
put a victor jr. and a 650 dbl.pmp. on it but I think that would be
overkill.I think a 750 v.s. should be enough.I would like to hear from poeple using either the Stealth or the torker II and hear how you like them
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 0
From: Orange County,NY
Car: 1982 Z28
Engine: 355
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 12 Bolt
I run a Weiand Stealth with a Speed Demon 750 DP on my 355,and am very happy with both.I would recommend getting the Stealth and the 750 VS and I think you will be much happier with the car.The Performer and 600 Holley are marginally better than stock at best.
Damon
227 to the rear wheels isn't too bad for that combo. I think it's got more left in it with tuning, however. Here's a few things I'd look at, in order:
1. ignition timing. Not sure what distributor you have in it. If it's the stock computer controlled one then bingo, there's your problem right there. Can't run a CCDistributor without the CCQJet carb. The ECM freaks and gives you a LOUSY ignition curve. Zero power. The fix is to put in an earlier non-computer controlled HEI. That being said, make sure your centrifugal advance is working and keep jacking up the initial timing 2* at a time until the power starts to level off. Then you know its close. I've dialed in more than 40 REAL WORLD HP on engines with previously screwed up distributors so don't underestimate the importance of a properly timed spark!
2. Secondary opening. That 600 won't get the secondaries all the way open until beyond 6500 RPMs with the stock secondary spring in it. Step up to a looser "yellow" spring and it'll be all the way open by about 4500. Makes a difference in both torque and HP.
3. Jetting. Play with it. Maybe it wants to go leaner. Maybe it wants to go richer. Never know until you try. Just record ALL changes and the resuts thy produce. You are guaranteed to fail the memory test on this one.
Is the 600 big enough? No. 750 is more in line with making serious HP, but it shouldn't be THAT bad with the 600. Don't go throwing on a bigger carb without trying out the above stuff first- I guarantee disappointment.
Is the Performer Intake big enough? Yes. I've taken the lowly Performer intake well into the 12s on a 350 in a heavy car. It's a better manifold than people give it credit for. Not as good as the RPM, but damned good up to 6000 RPMs.
1. ignition timing. Not sure what distributor you have in it. If it's the stock computer controlled one then bingo, there's your problem right there. Can't run a CCDistributor without the CCQJet carb. The ECM freaks and gives you a LOUSY ignition curve. Zero power. The fix is to put in an earlier non-computer controlled HEI. That being said, make sure your centrifugal advance is working and keep jacking up the initial timing 2* at a time until the power starts to level off. Then you know its close. I've dialed in more than 40 REAL WORLD HP on engines with previously screwed up distributors so don't underestimate the importance of a properly timed spark!
2. Secondary opening. That 600 won't get the secondaries all the way open until beyond 6500 RPMs with the stock secondary spring in it. Step up to a looser "yellow" spring and it'll be all the way open by about 4500. Makes a difference in both torque and HP.
3. Jetting. Play with it. Maybe it wants to go leaner. Maybe it wants to go richer. Never know until you try. Just record ALL changes and the resuts thy produce. You are guaranteed to fail the memory test on this one.
Is the 600 big enough? No. 750 is more in line with making serious HP, but it shouldn't be THAT bad with the 600. Don't go throwing on a bigger carb without trying out the above stuff first- I guarantee disappointment.
Is the Performer Intake big enough? Yes. I've taken the lowly Performer intake well into the 12s on a 350 in a heavy car. It's a better manifold than people give it credit for. Not as good as the RPM, but damned good up to 6000 RPMs.
Last edited by Damon; Dec 18, 2001 at 06:17 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,111
Likes: 53
From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Change carb jets on your 600 to 66 primary and 75 sec
or use a #21 metering plate. Use a purple or yellow spring.
the performer intake has stock size runners and the sportsmanII's
have bigger runners. That step at the gasket is costing you 20 to 25 hp. Portmatch the performer to match the larger ports on the sportsman II's. The SportsmanII's really flow after porting.
Do a bowl port under the valve and trim and thin the guide on both intake and exhaust. Then clean up the rest of the port.
The sportsmans have big exhaust ports too. Make sure your
header is not too small and blocking flow.
Ignition timing should be around 12 to 14 inital and 32 to 36 total
Replace the stock HEI coil and module with MSD or Accel. If you have a true 10.5:1 cr, you will need 93 to 94 octane gas to make any power without retarding timing. This combo should be good for 375+ hp at the flywheel (300+rwhp) when tweeked. You have good parts, but need to bring them together.
or use a #21 metering plate. Use a purple or yellow spring.
the performer intake has stock size runners and the sportsmanII's
have bigger runners. That step at the gasket is costing you 20 to 25 hp. Portmatch the performer to match the larger ports on the sportsman II's. The SportsmanII's really flow after porting.
Do a bowl port under the valve and trim and thin the guide on both intake and exhaust. Then clean up the rest of the port.
The sportsmans have big exhaust ports too. Make sure your
header is not too small and blocking flow.
Ignition timing should be around 12 to 14 inital and 32 to 36 total
Replace the stock HEI coil and module with MSD or Accel. If you have a true 10.5:1 cr, you will need 93 to 94 octane gas to make any power without retarding timing. This combo should be good for 375+ hp at the flywheel (300+rwhp) when tweeked. You have good parts, but need to bring them together.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 18,457
Likes: 16
From: Loveland, OH, US
Car: 4
Engine: 6
Transmission: 5
Man I feel your pain... I have a L69 short block with 186 "double-hump" junkyard heads, Edlebrock TES, and a Comp XM264HR-12 cam I picked up used for cheap. The entire rest of the engine is the stock L69 stuff (cat, exhaust, carb, distributor, manifold, air cleaner, all emissions devices, etc.). It does 214 RW HP and 282 RW ft-lbs. That's a .030" over 305 that had just passed California smog a couple of days before, with no changes whatsoever to the setup! I'd be more than disappointed at a 350 that put up your numbers.
I also have a 400 that was in the car for a long time; with another set of the same kind of heads, the same exhaust system, the L69 air cleaner, and a Holley 800 spreadbore carb on top of a Performer intake, it did 284 RW HP and 373 RW ft-lbs.
I don't think your intake is the problem, if it will support almost 60 more RW HP and more than 100 RW ft-lbs than you're getting. It's true that it's a pretty small one but I don't think it's your problem.
You say you have "true duals"; what size are the pipes? What size is the crossover between them? What has been done to the heads? Out of the box those usually need some work. Are you at least using 1.6 rockers? That's not near enough cam for the rest of the combo; rockers would help, but you could really use a decent cam.
I think there's at least 40 or 50 HP left on the table in your combo somewhere.
I also have a 400 that was in the car for a long time; with another set of the same kind of heads, the same exhaust system, the L69 air cleaner, and a Holley 800 spreadbore carb on top of a Performer intake, it did 284 RW HP and 373 RW ft-lbs.
I don't think your intake is the problem, if it will support almost 60 more RW HP and more than 100 RW ft-lbs than you're getting. It's true that it's a pretty small one but I don't think it's your problem.
You say you have "true duals"; what size are the pipes? What size is the crossover between them? What has been done to the heads? Out of the box those usually need some work. Are you at least using 1.6 rockers? That's not near enough cam for the rest of the combo; rockers would help, but you could really use a decent cam.
I think there's at least 40 or 50 HP left on the table in your combo somewhere.
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Yes, you advanced the timing for best performance but that's not what I was talking about. DO YOU STILL HAVE THE COMPUTER CONTROLLED DISTRIBUTOR? IF SO, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM. PERIOD. Just advancing the timing isn't gonna get it done in this case.
I think you're gonna be a little shy of a 13.99 with that combo.
I think you're gonna be a little shy of a 13.99 with that combo.
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