Carburetors Carb discussion and questions. Upgrading your Third Gen's carburetor, swapping TBI to carburetor, or TPI to carburetor? Need LG4 or H.O. info? Post it here.

Code 21/23

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Old Mar 15, 2022 | 09:35 AM
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Code 21/23

I have a 86 camaro that is all original -all smog stuff included. It runs like crap and falls on its face when it goes on road test. We switched quadjets 4 times one worked but leaked like hell, had to take it off. The. We get the new one the problem is back. TPS and MCS are constant are these attached to the 02 sensor? Could it be why it’s doing it. All the we had or is it the ECM? Help frustrated as can be everything is in new shape on this car vacuums are all hooked up correctly. runs eratic no power, we also have a fuse that blows 30 amp fuse for the power mirrors and trunk lid. Switch is ok connections are fine.

I am getting codes :

Constantly
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Old Mar 17, 2022 | 01:50 AM
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Re: Code 21/23

For the sake of trying to keep this as simple as possible (and NO this is NOT actually how things work):

-The MC Solenoid is the "Mixture Control" Solenoid...as in Air - Fuel Mixture.
-The Oxygen Sensor allows the PCM to monitor and respond to the Air - Fuel Mixture, as to Air vs Fuel Content passing through the exhaust.

I do not recommend just throwing Parts at the Problem, but...
When multiple Carburetors behave in the same manor, it is time to look else where...
Sensors, Wiring, PROM/ PCM.
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Old Mar 21, 2022 | 08:40 PM
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Re: Code 21/23



MCS = Mixture Control Solenoid

It moves abuncha stuff up and down inside the carb at a rate of about 8 - 10 reps per second, thereby changing the fuel mixture. The signal driving it has a "duty cycle", which is the proportion of the time that it spends in the "up" vs "down" position. "Down" = lean (restricts the fuel flow), "up" is rich (allows more fuel into the engine). Good adjustment, and ideally matching the carb to the engine, will result in it being around 50% duty cycle most of the time; meaning, the carb is metering just about right without the ECM's help, and the ECM only has to adjust the duty cycle significantly to compensate for unusual conditions. Its connector is on top of the carb, front pass side corner, has 2 wires. In this photo the wires pass right by the blue AN fuel fitting.

TPS = Throttle Position Sensor

Tells the ECM how far your foot is pushing the gas. Not hard to see how the ECM needs to know about this. Is low on the carb at the front driver's side corner. Has 3 wires. Right next to the "kicker" solenoid in the photo, bottom right corner.

Neither is "attached" to the O2 sensor, which is in the driver's side exhaust manifold; although all these things are "attached" to the ECM. The O2 sensor tells the ECM how much oxygen is in the exhaust stream. If there's none at all, then it thinks the mixture is too rich, and will change the duty cycle of the MCS to lean it out. If there's too much, it will do the opposite. The sensor's signal is very "sharp"; that is, it switches from "no oxygen" to "too much oxygen" over a very narrow range of oxygen content, and the ECM tries to keep it right on the edge, switching back and forth between those 2 conditions a few times a second, by making small adjustments to the MCS duty cycle. In tuning, this is called "cross counts". You should be able to hear the MCS clicking when you turn the key on with the engine not running; it'll do that for maybe 30 seconds or so, then stop, until you turn the key off and back on, or start it. If it doesn't click, something is wrong. Most likely the wiring.

One thing that it's easy to overlook about the O2 sensor: it senses OXYGEN, and nothing but OXYGEN. It does not sense "mixture", it does not sense fuel, it does not sense "lean" or "rich" directly; it senses OXYGEN. This means that if a cylinder is misfiring, the engine will be dumping unburned fuel and unused oxygen into the exhaust; the ECM will see OXYGEN; and will richen the mixture to try to get rid of it. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get a feedback electronic-controlled engine, whether FI or carbed, to EVER run right if it has a misfire. A misfire will of course make any engine run terrible, but the effects are MULTIPLIED when a feedback system based on OXYGEN (as nearly all are) is involved.

Most likely, that's the root cause of your problem. You have a misfire (bad spark plug or plug wire) or a mechanical failure (leaky valve for example) that prevents a cylinder from firing properly. When that happens the ECM doesn't know how to handle it, and then in addition to the effects of a misfire which are bad enough on their own, the ECM will be confused and do something wack.

First thing you need to do is fix the misfire.
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