ChrisFormula355

Which will make an engine run cooler, the factory aluminum/plastic radiator, or the factory copper?? i have one of each, and I need to decide which one gets to go into my girlfriends new 3rdgen since we are putting her 350 from her camaro into it, and that 350 liked to run pretty hot. We did have a griffin in the camaro, but I put it into my firebird after the camaro got wrecked.

rezinn

In my opinion the copper one should cool better because copper conducts heat better that aluminum. It all depends on the surface area of each, though. Significantly more SA = better cooling despite lower conductivity.

GKK

The 3 row Copper has more surface area than the 1" single row Aluminum and should cool better.

breathment

a single core aluminum radiator is thinner.. but they are designed to cool equaly as well.. being the are both available.. but do urself a favor and go with the aluminum. it will last

rezinn

It will last? Why do you think quality piping is made of copper and not aluminum. If you want something that will last, you want copper.

ChrisFormula355

Ok thats two votes to one..........any other thoughts? Looking at both of them I notice that the copper one will hold an ASSload more water because its way thicker. I would think that more water capacity would equal better cooling? I'm leaning towards the copper one right now..........

breathment

it will last because it won't corrode!!! look at all f-bodies made 89+.. they all have aluminum radiators.. now look inside the copper radiators in those pre 89 cars and look at all the corrosion... i have a aluminum radiator in my 350 GTA and here in texas with 105* heat it sits nice and cool all summer long. Had a copper radiator before and the dang thinig fell apart on me where the side tanks were soldered on, and at one of the heater hose nipples. went out and brought a brand new radiator. all the radiator shop had was copper. And they suggested an aluminum because it cools the same but is alot tougher and is recomended for high performance applications.. (this radiator shop has been here since before i was born so they know their stuff..) took the radiator home. looked inside and it was already freaking corroded. waited a day and got an aluminum one.. I'v had three cars with copper radiators fail on me so far... And now there all aluminum... just because the copper radiator LOOKS like it bigger doesn't mean it holds more water.. remember that it has to be wider because it has 3 cores.. and needs space in between them. While the aluminum is a single core. The difference in capacity is minimal at best and will not affect anything..

MikeT 88IROC350

Copper+soldering= corrosion. My dad had his '79 copper radiator fixed about 3 times, once a year, before he decided to replace it.

I just did the tanks on my stock AL radiator. The plastic will wear out before the aluminum. They lasted about 14 years, but he AL core is still going. Sure it looks smaller, but are just as effecient as the copper ones. All the big$ racers have AL radiators.

Fact is copper does conduct heat better than aluminum, all things created equal. But you have to look at the whole system. IE water pump, fans, shrouding, air dams, pressure, coolant, etc.

Just go with the AL unit and keep it clean.

trans87

My car is an 87 and it has the aluminum/plastic radiator. I would go aluminum, it doesn't corrode and is lighter.

Synapsis

They both corrode, aluminum just oxidizes slower. Aluminum is lighter, Chris... I know how you like to make things light.

*styrofoam bumper*

5SIZ

Dude.....I thought you knew, of course copper cools better J/K

I honestly think that aluminum radiaotrs are better, they may have less cores but are designed to cool just as efficiently and yadda yadda yadda.

Stay with what ya got.

88txiroc

Everyone knows that my car was not taken care of when I bought it. I dont think the cooling system had been done for at least 4 or 5 years. Willie and I did a flush of the cooling system (aluminum radiator) and after the flush, it looked like new, all shiny. Now my car does not go above 200 here. Go for it, you can always change it later if you desire. TL

MdFormula350

i am with breathment!

breathment

hmm maybe it was 89 that they went to aluminum only.. but i might be wrong about that..

and i should correct myself. yes copper itself does transfer heat better when its alone.. but put it together to build a radiator and it looses its effiencency..

86bird

I tried to use a custom built (non-factory) 3 core high effiency copper rad from a local rad shop in an 86 T/A with a 300 h.p. GM crate engine and dual electric fans from a tpi car. ON the same car, same day, no other changes, a new modine replacement aluminum rad provided approx. 30% more cooling. I couldn't use the ac in the 95% heat with the copper rad.

spartyon

copper conducts heat better but aluminum disipates it better

AJ_92RS

Here's a quick decision making fact.

Aluminum used in radiators in an alloy consisting of aluminum, magnesium, and (ya ready for this?) COPPER!!!!!

It takes more aluminum to transfer heat as well as copper, but aluminum's lighter, so by the time you reach the amount needed to equal copper, it's still lighter. And that's not taking into account that copper has to be soldered together with lead. Lead's heavy to, so that just adds to the weight.

Plus aluminum's 'stronger'. A tube of copper will bend easier than aluminum. It's a very soft, pliable metal. The advantage there is larger tubes of aluminum can be used so that more coolant can flow through within the same amount of time as copper. That amounts to a better cooling consistency (i.e. less 'hot spots').

An aluminum radiator's the way to go. It's lighter, and cheaper, although it costs a butt load of money to buy an aftermarket one. I guess because they increase the overall size to make it even more efficient.

Here's an example of prices for a direct replacement radiator for our cars from AutoZone.com

A Plastic/Aluminum radiator is $139.99

A Copper radiator is $131.17

For the cost, wouldn't it make more sense to have the lighter one?

AJ

IROCmonkey

I would say aluminum rads are better overall, but I have had a few bad experiances with the aluminum/plastic ones...i.e the tank seperates from the core...which as you may guess causes one hell of a leak.

AJ_92RS

Wanna hear something funny?

2 days after I posted here, my rad sprung a leak. And guess where? Right in front, on the driver's side. Right on the plastic where the upper hose splashes coolant onto the front of the rad. (I'll take a pic later.)

So I tried to be a cheap ***, and tried a temporary fix of JB Weld. It may have worked if I had gotten it completely over the crack. Well, I missed a spot and it continued to leak, so off to Autozone I go.....

I got the thing home, and just outta curiosity, I got online to see if there were any other places that I may have gotten one cheaper.

I found this place :rockon: www.rockauto.com :rockon:

The AutoZone rad cost me $139.99 + $9.80tax = $149.79.
I got this one from www.rockauto.com for $ 95.74 + $ 11.65 shipping = $ 107.39

I saved $42.40!!!!!!

But ya know what. It's a copper radiator.

At this point in time, $42.40 is a lot of money for me. I haven't won the lotto yet, if ya know what I mean?

But what I plan on doing is; when I take my old one out, I will weigh it. Then before I put in my new one I will weigh it. Then we'll see what the LBS/$ ratio really is, OK?

And I'll keep posting on the cooling ability. And just for starters, the one that's in there now...... I have no hot problems at all. I have a 180* t-stat, a Jet Chip fan switch that's on at 200*/ off at 185*. Right now the temp guage floats just above the middle hash mark between 100* and 220* on the guage. (I'll take a pic of that also)

AJ

FruityOne

Just a little side note about the differences between Copper and Aluminium.

Alluminium dissapates heat faster than copper, however it will not spread heat as quickly. Thus the heat will not reach the cooling fins as quickly, but once it does it will be carried away by the air faster.

Copper spreads heat much faster, but dissapates heat more slowly. Will transfer the heat to the fins faster, but will dissapate it more quickly.

However for our use it doesn't really matter which we use when surface area will play a much bigger role in how well the radiator works.

I've tested this with CPU coolers, and numerous companies have test this when building heat sinks for CPU's.

AJ_92RS

I got the new radiator in today. Unfortunately I don't have any type of scale, not even a bathroom scale.

I did have two guys over my house today to help (one being 4mula88) and they both said that there was maybe 2-3 lbs difference between the two. I have to agree with them. There wasn't that much weight difference. One of the guys said that the aluminum is a 3 core and the copper one is a 2 core. Although it looked to me that the aluminum was 2 and the copper was 1. I don't know enough about radiators to know the diff.

I can assure you of one thing though. It felt nice to put an all metal radiator in my car. Just something about plastic on the sides of my radiator doesn't feel right.

I took the car for a ½ hour drive and the temp gauge acted the same way as before, although it did seem like it took longer for the car to get warm enough for the fan to kick on. I let it sit at idle for about 15 minutes before it did. Take into consideration that the temp outside today was about 60*, so that probably helped, but overall, there seems to be no increase in temperature fluctuations, and it seemed that the fan cut off a lot sooner than it used to. That could be from the 60* day though.

I'll keep you updated on any changes in operation. I just wish I had a scale to weigh them.

AJ

Jza

I put in a copper one out of an 87 IROC to replace the plastic/aluminum one in my 89 RS (it was only 20 bucks so the arguments didn't matter). The aluminum part was brand new, just the plastic tank cracked down the side. It was definitely lighter than the copper one. My car cools the same with both radiators. I don't think there's a whole lot of difference to consider. Of course, it seemed to me that a TPI car with dual fans would have a better radiator than the TBI car with single fan; especially if both types of rads were available back in 87. :shrug: I dunno. To me it was just the difference between $80 to fix my al. rad, or $20 for a used copper rad. I wasn't happy about the weight difference, but then again, I wasn't out a whole lot of money either.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Yes it does conduct heat better.

But aluminum sheds heat to air passing by it better.

The aluminum radiator is the better choice.

If I can go uphill on I-17 out of Phx. in June in a black car w/ a stock replacement alum. radiator behind a 305 w/ a melted cat and it not get hot.... that says enough.

StangKiller

If you could produce a copper radiator EXACTLY like an aluminum one it would cool better, but it's not possible because copper is much weaker and the tubes have to be smaller and thicker than alu. does to withstand the pressure. Copper cools better but what hurts it the most is the solder that holds it all together, the solder is not a good a conductor of heat, so the heat has to pass the solder first to get to the fins which hurts cooling. Alu. is stronger so the tubes can be bigger and flow better, plus the fins are welded on with alu. so there is nothing to slow the heat transfer, next time I need to replace mine I'm getting an all alu. one with alu. end tanks.

SSC

:lala:Hmm no one seems to know that ALUMINUM radiators are stock in all thirdgens 82-92! That said, the copper 3 core (replacment type) is slightly better then the stock one core aluminum because it has more coolant capacity and has longer heat transfer time because of its size. If you have a copper radiator in good condition go with it but if the aluminum is in better condition go with it.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Maybe 85 or 87 through 92, but no way on all 82-92.

It has to have longer heat transfer time; it can't shed the heat to the air as effectively as aluminum.

AJ_92RS

OK slick

Why do you suppose that they make aluminum radiators THICKER than copper ones? Because they can or because they have to??????????

I'll give you a subtle hint.

THEY HAVE TO!!!!!!!!!

They both have there place. Each one has their benefits. Neither of the two is perfect for all applications.

And I can assure you of one thing. GM did NOT use aluminum radiators to increase cooling capabilities. They use them because aluminum is a cheaper metal, it takes less time to fabricate a radiator from it, and it's lighter.

AJ

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Direct comparison:

Factory 3 row copper vs. one row factory aluminum. Both with brand new ones, and used ones. I have a 1 or 2 year olde aluminum replacement in one of my cars, and a used '88(?) aluminum one in another car. They've both had previously the factory copper. The aluminum runs cooler.

The aluminum outperforms the copper yet the copper has more air surface. And the alum. is actually a thinner core than the 3 row copper, contrary to what you say.

I live in the desert and used to live in the midwest - IL to be exact. I've driven in Phoenix and El Paso about as many times as I've driven through Chicago.

No need to get angry. But when you run things back to back a few times in the same cars, you tend to get a strong opinion of what works when it's 100 degrees at 10am.

Matthew

SSC

Look at my signature I own an 82 owned an 85 and have seen dozens of eary-late model 3rdgens all have a factory aluminum one core even the 82 owners manual rants a good page about the aluminum radiator. Any coper thought to be a stock radiator is a replacement. The only variances in stock radiators are width (2.5L-3.1 same) (305-350 same) of the unicore and left tank size for factory engine oil coolers.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Great. A friend of mine owned a wrecking yard that specialized in f-bodies. Thousands of them can't be wrong. Not ALL f-bodies got alum. radiators between 82-92, and that's a fact.

breathment

the 3.1 shared a radiator with the V8's... same part #'s.. rad cap and hoses on the same side..

the 2.8 has the rad cap on the drivers side. and the upper hose on the passenger side.. along with a differen't part # then those above...

AJ_92RS

Well you must be buying the most Polish radiators you can. If you have read the entire thread, then you would notice that the aluminum 3 core I took out of my car (factory alum) was bigger, and had more surface area than the 2 core copper one that I replaced it with. If you go to any parts store and compare the factory replacement copper to alum rads, then you'd see the aluminum ones are thicker (meaning 3 core) than the copper (2 core).

And who's getting angry? You, along with a few others, are trying to state claim that aluminum radiators cool better than copper. They don't. The cool differently. That's the point that I'm trying to get across. Obviously aluminum is better for YOU because of where you live and drive. But put your car on the north side of alaska where it gets -40* out, and I bet the copper one goes longer without cracking from the quick temp change of the antifreeze.

And like I stated earlier...... the aluminum radiator I took out was about 2 lbs. lighter AT THE MOST!!! So aluminum isn't all that much lighter. If the aluminum had metal sides on it like the copper one does, they'd probably weight the same.

If anything, I'm the one trying to give an unbiased opinion. I'll say this again to....... They each have there place. Neither one is the perfect radiator. If one of them was, then the other one would not be made anymore.

AJ

jmd

iTrader: (4)

I'm Irish, and I only buy AC Delco radiators for my GM vehicles.

Factory third gen aluminum radiators are one row which negates your whole "factory aluminum, more surface area than factory copper 3 row" argument.

Re-read the topic of this thread. Factory alum. vs. Factory copper.

If you wanna play dirty, I'll just get a 2 x 1" row Griffin :sillylol:


Um, they cool better in HOT climates. The guy is looking for the best cooling solution for Tucson, AZ. On-topic, please.

Would it be okay if someone asked what wheels are lightest and I replied that he should go steel because they're more durable? Or do I need to visit Alaska to understand WTF you are talking about?

I don't remember saying anything about weight. Nice shift of topic though.

PS, my aluminum radiators manage just fine in IL or MN in January when it's 10 degrees or less out. I even forgot to add coolant (I run distilled & water wetter normally) and the one in the 87 didn't split. I guess factory aluminum radiators really suck. I can't kill 'em in Phx., and I can't kill 'em in freezing temps.

:hail: the almighty aluminum third gen radiator

AJ_92RS

OK...... obviously your one who thinks he's got all the bases covered.

I can go and take a picture of my copper one and my aluminum one and the aluminum one is thicker. I can verify that for you.

I never said aluminum sucks or copper is better. I never said that. You're twisting my words to make an argument that you obviously feel is neccessary.

Aluminum is more prone to crack under severe temp changes. That's a fact. And so is plastic. I have mine here to prove it.

The weight subject is not off topic since that's another claim that everyone says why aluminum is so much better than copper. All I'm saying is that the weight difference is not as high as the average Joe thinks.

I am trying to help ChrisFormula355. I'm giving him the truth about the difference between copper and aluminum, not biased opinions.

And I'm sorry about the Polish comment. That was uncalled for. I got outta line on that one.

Since you're making this a teritorally issue ....... I live in IL. Summers average 100* F here with humidity averaging 95% (bad for cooling). The winters average 0* with 20% humidity (bad for temp changes of antifreeze for aluminum). I've not had any trouble with either. The only radiator trouble I've ever had in my 15 yrs of owning cars, truck, and motorcycles is the plastic on the factory aluminum radiator that I just pulled out of my car because it cracked.

Don't think that aluminum or copper is better. They aren't. They're different. That's it. That's all. No more, no less.

AJ

SSC

SSC

Not according to the OEM parts list from Performance Radiator they show a listing for 3 types of (factory aluminum) replacments 2.5-3.1, 305-350 and an option for engine oil cooler wider DS tank. The listing for copper 3 & 4 core I had a 4 core replacment in the Camaro are listed as extended coolant capacity radiators for HD applications. But to the point of my post, aluminum radiators are what our cars came with stock.

"Re-read the topic of this thread. Factory alum. vs. Factory copper.

If you wanna play dirty, I'll just get a 2 x 1" row Griffin"

That would do the trick

breathment

hmm. well iv seen a 2.8L which had the radiator cap on the drivers side. and iv seen a 3.1L which had the radiator on the passenger side.. but perhaps it was aftermarket radiators??

and autozone part #'s are the same for 3.1L and 5.7L

but this is straight from GM
5.7L - 52483813
3.1L - 52453812
2.8L - 3056380

perhaps i am wrong.. anyone with a 2.8L or a 3.1L wanna shed some light on this?

im not trying to argue with anyone. just want to get the facts straight..