I am thinking of converting to r134a. Now, I live in the middle of no where and would have to drive pretty far to have the R12 removed by 'EPA' standards.

I have two questions. How would you remove the R12 on your both "EPA" friendly and "EPA" un-friendly (not that I would ever consider venting the R12 into the atmosphere... honest.... ?

Thanks!

 

Why not try this stuff http://www.duracool.com/ says it works on both r12 and 134, no need for conversion kits.

I'm thinking of trying it on my old 85 K10 the z28 still works great!

 

What you do with the old freon is between you and the ecology gods.

No matter what kind of freon you stuff into your car, it will be a waste, unless you first draw a 30" vacuum.

Envirosafe is available on the net, and works real nice. Requires mineral-oil lubed AC system (stock lube on R-12 systems), or ester oil. Will not work with PAG oil. PAG oil is found in R-134A conversion kits, and is not conpatible with anything else, but ester oil works with just about everything, including R-134A.

Seth

 

Removing the R12 and getting ready for R134a are 2 different things.

Freon (R12 or R134a) is carried through the system using 2 different types of oil. In order to convert your system, you need to not only remove all of the refrigerant, but flush the sysem (duraflush is a good flush product) until all of the old oil is out. You then fill the system with new oil and add the R134a.

I work for a mechanic shop and whenever somebody just wants the R12 out and is going to do the rest of the work themselves - we just do it for free. We can then turn around and sell the R12 and not have to pay the $$$ for it. You might try this option to get the freon out.

 

Not entirely true-3.1.

As I have said, R-134A can use ester oil, w/o a problem. Most refrigerants seem to be compatible with it.
Flushing is in Queens, New York.
I have seen some conversion kits with ester oil plus chemicals to mix it with existing mineral oil, but most seem to have PAG oil. Once you put PAG oil into the system, you are stuck with R-134A. If you dislike it, then what?
Flushing a system entails more than the average backyard-mechanic is capable of doing. Also, the receiver-dryer is large, acting like a reservoir for whatever oil is already in the system. It would need to be replaced.
Why create a need to open the system? If the hoses are not dry and the 'o' rings still hold, leave it alone. This is another arguement for Duracool or Envirosafe.
Drawing a vacuum, makes residual moisture in the system boil, and leave through the vacuum pump. Must be done, no matter which refrigerant is used.
Especially because you live in the Boonies, things need to be thought out and done right.

Seth

 

you are correct - you can get away with a mix of oils. Let me explain.

There are 3 different ways to run your A/C system.

1) Original R-12 and Mineral Oil. R-12 won't just pump on its own...it rides on the mineral oil (or compatible). You charge the system to full capacity and use the designated amount of oil.

2) Converted properly to R134a - doing this either involves changing out your compressor, drier, and orifice tube (and flushing the rest of the system), or draining and flushing the whole system very very thoroughly. You then add PAG 46 to the original oil capacity of the system and 80% capacity of the R134a.

3) This goes by many names. Most places call it Freeze 12. This is a mixture of R134a and R12 - also with a mix of the oils. This is also called contaminated R134a. When some people "convert" their system, they simply open the line long enough to let the refrigerant out (oblivious to the fact that there is still quite a few ounces of mineral oil in the system), then shoot in a the required amount of pre-mix R134a and PAG 46 in 1 pound cans. In most cases, this system cools great and will last a good while. However, I wouldn't call this "converting" to R134a. In most cases they've actually overfilled the oil capacity - but it won't hurt anything, just not let it cool as well.

In all honesty, I think most people with 82-92 F-bodies are better off finding somewhere to get R-12 and using it still. Both R12 and R134a cause damage to the environment and atmosphere - and the R134a makes your compressor work harder to achieve the same less cooling. Of all the people I've done A/C work for, the ones that stuck with R-12 and payed the extra 15 dollars a pound were the happiest with the icy cold air.

Sorry for the long post - figured some would find it useful.

 

Now I need to agree with Mr. 3.1.
Good explanation.
When I got the 'Bird, I replaced the A.C. hoses/o-rings, and did a quick PAG/R-134A switch. Compressor struggled; A.C. was not great.
The following year, I did a flush, replaced the receiver-dryer, installed ester oil, and tried Envirosafe. Nice stuff.
After several years, the Envirosafe lost about 1/2 pound charge.
Two weeks ago, rather than buying more, I evacuated, and charged with the real thing. Also installed one pancake fan.
After living with it for the two hottest weeks in years, I can honestly say that R-12 is still the best.
R-12 can be found at the occasional Hamfest for under $15/tin.

Seth