I am suffering from a bad bad bad...did I say bad...case of Electrolysis.

I have replaced 4 grounds between the engine and the body and the body and the frame and yet I am eating up radiators left and right. I think I am on my 3 radiator in about 6 months.

The Caprice has up to 22 grounds throughout the car.

Do you guys have any advice on how to locate the culprit? I can't keep replacing radiators...I am going mad.

JB

 

My brother had this problem w/his ZZ3 powered Camaro. He bought a sacrificial annode and it fixed it. They install under your radiator cap and hang into the coolant in the radiator. They're about ten bux....

Rayvan

 

Maybe your radiator is not isolated from the metal of the car? Make sure no metal part of the car touches the radiator. Try covering the edges of your radiator with cut up bicycle inner tubes so that it wont contact any metal.


Note that im not really sure if the above would fix it. Its just a guess. But my radiator is fully isolated so it must be that way for a reason.

 

My radiator is suspended from OEM rubber bumpers holding it at all four corners. I have an electric Flex-A-Lite dual fan cooling it. It also has a rubber surrounding.

I have tried to do all I can. I finally decided to take it to a speed shop called Westech Automotive to see if they can find it. Its like looking for a needle in a haystack.

They suggested that since the car was involved in an accident at one time...that they are going to check all the ground under the hood at the fender points. Its got to be found or I sell the car.

Thanks guys.

JB

 

Did you try a sacrificial annode?

 

No not yet. They said if they can't find it that I should use that until it can be found...but they charge a shop fee of 75 an hour and I don't want them looking for it too long. They said it is very strong if it is killing the radiator in a matter of a few weeks now. It happens within a few weeks after fixing and re-replacing the the rad. I hope it is something simple but if it proves to be too costly to look for then I'd rather not keep the car any longer...which suxs because I was so close to wrapping up what I wanted to do to it

Lets say it would end up costing more then a few 100 bucks...I'd rather take the money I would give them to put a down payment on a 1999 Camaro Z28 convertible I just seen. Its got 37K for 11,999 w/ LS1. I have had the Caprice for 7 years and it has 200K on it. If they can't find this I will most likely just get rid of the car because lately it has been one thing after another and I can't take it any more. I'd rather cut it loose then keep sinking money into it.

 

Get a Voltmeter and try to see if there's any voltage between the metal in the radiator and Gnd. It would be eaten up if it was somehow connected to +12V, while the engine is at Gnd.

 

O.K. guys...I took it to Norman Brandes's shop...he has had his shop guys on it for about a week now. He was solely responsible for ALL of GM's "Grand Finale" 4th Gen F-Body project engines. He builds drag cars that pass emissions. For all intensive purposes...I feel that he and his guys are more than capable of figuring this out yet they are stumped.

http://www.westechauto.com/

The results:
They haven't found any evidence of electrolysis. They have tested the fluid to see if any electricity is present and they haven't found any. They have looked at ALL the grounds...22 of them throughout the entire car and they are all good.

I am beside myself at this point. I don't want to get rid of the Caprice but I am really standing here scratching my "boys" on this one. I am so P'd off right now I don't have the foggiest idea on what to do.

My Flex-A-Lite dual electric fan is connected to the fuse panel like the instructions say. There is a fuse for the fan on the inner fender close to the battery along with a ground wire. The clincher is that I have been having rad. problems ever since I bought the car but never this fast. I mean...in lest than 3 weeks after the 2 most recent repairs...they have started to leak.

First I had a Howe all aluminum, extra wide 2 core, racing radiator. Built in coolers...the whole "9". It was sweet. 9 Months gone by and it started leaking from the 3rd top tube on the pass. side. I sent it back under warranty...they fixed...3 weeks later...it started leaking again...same side except farther down towards the middle. I sent it back...they said they didn't want to fix it again and sent me my money back.

Next...I went to a local shop...he made me a 3 core all brass and copper. 3 weeks later...it started leaking. I pulled it out again...brought it back...he fixed all the little leaks on the tank by the upper oil cooler inlet and the upper tranny cooler inlet...the worst being on the passenger side. I reinstalled it and sure enough 3 weeks later...it started leaking around the upper tranny cooler inlet again.

The rad. is suspended in rubber grommets at all 4 corners. I braced it in the back to not rub or touch anything between the rad. frame support or the air conditioner condenser brackets with foam weather stripping.

I am just so P'd off right now. I had all kinds of money saved up for Norm to build an engine for me but this rad. problem is bleeding me.

I am close to tearing everything of value off of this car and buying a 1999 Camaro conv. Z28 if I can't get this accomplished. What suxs is I got the Caprice hooked up with all kinds of suspension parts and a built tranny and other little pieces. I have sunk all this money into this car to keep it but this rad. problem is gonna force me to sell it.

Ask any questions you can...I will answer the best I can.

Thanks,

JB

 

No need to panic. No need to be beside yourself. No need to sell the car. A ten dollar sacrificial annode *will* fix the problem. Get one. You'll see.

 

Oh yeah...I AM gonna try that... FOR SURE!

I am also going to have them add a ground strap from the upper radiator lip...at the very top...no where near a tube or anything important...to the frame or even the upper radiator shelf.

Rayvan...why do you think they aren't finding anything though? The last thing I am going to have them try is testing the fluid while some of the accessories are running. Like the parking lamps, headlights fans, a/c...etc...

 

Because everything you're going through right now is *exactly* what my brother went through with a second generation camaro w/ ZZ3 motor. The electrolysis was bad enough to eat through his intake manifold *and* his radiator(s).

He spent a lot of money on mechanics who knew nothing about it and tried many different grounding scemes, then he fixed it with a ten dollar sacrificial annode that an old timer told him about. That was about six years ago. The car runs perfect to this day. The annode is only about half eaten away, but he's using the same radiator and the same intake manifold that was on the car when he installed the annode.

 

Wild man.

So...do you think I should have them go any farther? I mean...they are willing to tear into it and try to find something but...it could be at a very large cost.

I mean...I am more than willing to get the annode and add a ground strap.

The crappy thing is that I have to pull the radiator again for the...oh I don't know...5 or 6th time...I lost freakin' count...


On a side note...how much HP is your bro pushing on that ZZ engine? Is it carb'd or FI?

 

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/53...scription.html

Bit of the science behind what's happening to your car: Basically, the combination of all sorts of different metals inside your engine's cooling system has created a "battery." The radiator has become your "positive post." All you need to do is replace that positive post with something that's cheap and lasts a long time.

 

I wouldn't pay them another dime. It kills me that you've spent as much as you have already!

I wouldn't even pull the radiator (unless it's leaking and needs replacement) as the sacrifial anode installs under the radiator cap (hangs in the coolant)

He actually removed the ZZ3 heads/cam and installed the ZZ430 heads/cam from GM performance. His headers are a bit wrong for the engine (shorty type) so it's likely down a few ponies from the 430 that it *should* have, but it's likely pretty close to 400 right now (crank) and he estimates about 350 at the wheels. He's running a Holley DP650 carb on it. It runs real good.

 

Yeah I know...I have spent a small chunk of change already...only about 300 bucks tops...not including countless bottles of radiator fluid. I have, on the other hand, rubbed the rest of whatever hair I have left off of my chrome dome trying to figure out WTF is going on with this freakin thing!

Truthfully...I never even heard of that cap until you told me about it. I am also having them run a ground strap for me too. Just for saftey sake. That's ain't that expensive. The most expensive part is the labor charge...hey they are a good shop and they are expensive but what the heck... good work ain't cheap and cheap work ain't good.

They are the shop that is going to build my future engine. I was curious about your bro's engine...I was wondering about the quality of the block and parts. I am going to a 383 but using Rob's Dynamic EFI computer and dual TBI's on an Offenhauser 360 manifold. They estimate I should be able to get about 400 at the wheels.

I am keeping my fingers crossed about this rad cap!

JB

EDIT:
BTW...the rad. is leaking again...it will have to come out to be repaired or swapped with another unit.

 

[quote=JohnBlazeLTZ;3317942] I was curious about your bro's engine...I was wondering about the quality of the block and parts. quote]

The motor is lasting far longer than I ever expected it to.

With a 3:55 rear axle w/no overdrive (THM350) it spins very fast on the freeway, but that doesn't slow him down any. He still cruises around at about 80 mph all the time. It had about 60,000 miles on it when he installed the ZZ430 heads/cam. Right now the bottom end has close to 80,000 miles and still no signs of weakness. No noises, no smoke and compression is strong. He's not shy about blasting it to redline dozens of times per day either!

 

not like it helps but...you have a trans oil cooler...the pipes are made of metal and they connect to your trans and eventually to your ground. so having a rad suspended from metal frame doesnt mean that it has to be isolated.

buy the dam anode, theres 2 types...aluminum and zinc...aluminum will corrode slower and last longer...but wont protect as much as a zinc...which will corrode faster. i would suggest the aluminum one first...if your rad is still being eaten up fast...then switch to a zinc.

is there any history on this car that we might wanna be aware of? ie: it poured one day and all of a sudden the next day this happened...or you had some sorta damage previously. is this your daily driver, maybe you should let it sit for a while. is your engine coolant actually ethelene-glycol/water mix. it may be time to think outside the box on this one. instead of thinking of where the problem is...try to think past the problem and find signs of it in other places.

EDIT: bad wording in last sentince...i mean you should forget about what its affecting...and see what else it can affect. your rad is copper/brass and your grounds are bare...so maybe try isolating areas...like disconnecting all the grounds to the engine/firewall/battery/frame.

 

O.K. I ordered this one:

http://www.macsradiator.com/index.as...MMP=1011382282

Gramps...

That's a good point about the trans cooler...I didn't think of that.

Yes the car was in an accident at one point back in 2001. I had already gone through a rad. before that accident. I informed the shop of this fact and they checked the grounds and wiring in the front drivers corner and gave everything the thumbs up. They are not finding any electricity in the coolant or at the rad. while any accessories are running while the car is sitting still. So, they are going to take it one step further before I tell them to stop. They are going to put it on a dyno and check it to see if anything pops up while the car is running.

I know its an electrical problem because the car has had a history of things. The cruise control and the third brake light hasn't worked since I got it. From what a handful of GM mechanics have told me they go hand in hand...but it is a result from an ABS problem. The third brake light on the Caprice LTZ acts as a fuse for the cruise control. If the ABS sends out a fault...its pops the third brake light. The idea is that GM doesn't want some one using the cruise if the brakes have an issue. For instance... if you were to tap the brakes while in cruise and the dang thing wouldn't shut off I guess. Norman has confirmed this also. The LTZ was notorious for this problem because it had some many power features. The corner parking lamps go out form time to time but I go over and tap them and they turn on. The pass. headlight does the same thing. Every time I get out of the car...I hit the power lock and I get a shock. I have velour seats so static electricity is there too. When I put the windows up and down my volts gauge drops...and sometime while cruising...my analog rpm gauge jumps up and own a little. ( I wonder if the fact that I have a stock alternator pulley and 2 under drive pulleys n the crank and water pump would effect any of this but they said no.) Also I have disconnected my power antenna because the motor is dead and it doesn't go up and down. I have also disconnected the low wiper fluid sensor because it went bad and the light wouldn't go off in the cabin...regardless of if there was anything in it or not. So...there has been a slew of electrical issues but a lot of them are bad sensors.

Question: Do you think the low coolant sensor may have a short? It is on that side of the tank by the tranny lines!!!???

I told them that I was ready to stop but they are challenged by it to a certain extent and they don't like that they haven't found anything yet. Norm is taking it personal now. He is perplexed in such a way that he has stopped working on two other cars just to find my "ghost". They told me they are are going to work on it for a few more hours and only charge me for one hour...so I said I can live with that. I already let a bunch of "know-nothings" work on it on and off for the last few months...why not let a real pro take a little extra time digging through it too. Honestly...its almost an honor to have the guy touch my car. I just truly hope they find something.

As is I am going to use the cap and the ground strap and see what becomes of it. They said if it works that it should be thought of a a temp. fix. That is I ever want to do a better engine it would be in my best interest to spend some time looking for the little demon. It could come back up later and haunt me and possibly cost me a heater core or a set of heads. That would be a whole new cool realm of pain.

 

UPDATE:

O.K. so I went out to pick up my car and they told me that they weren't finished with it yet. In the almost 40 years Norm has never seen a car go through radiators like mine has. Usually if its an issue like electrolysis he has been able to find it. They can't find it and now he is taking it a bit personal because he has a ton of equipment that should be able to find the problem and they are not finding it. They even did some dyno runs to see if something is happening while the car is driven or moving. They have found nothing.

As of last Wed he said that he is not going to charge me at all anymore. He wanted me to bring in samples of the old fluid...which I luckily still have... and one of the old plastic and aluminum radiators I had in my garage. He is going to cut it a part and look at the inside of the tubes to see what it looks like. Then he is going to analyze the coolant sample for alkaline/acid levels. He also is calling the Research and Development guys at Modine (headquarters in Racine, WI) for help.

He said that if they would like to see it that he will ship it to them on his dime and let them look at it. They after all have the technology to dig even deeper in this problem. I never thought that Norm would've gone to this amount of trouble but he has been presented with a problem that he can't figure out and he wants to at least try to use his professional resources and go the extra extra mile to work it out.

Now what "regular ordinary mechanics shop" would ever do something like that? Norm is truly the best. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Wish me luck.

JB

 

So...anyway...I got the Annode cap and it is still allowing my rad. to be eaten up. Its has been leaking for about 2 months now. I had it fixed and installed the Annode but it started leaking again. The annode does show signs of being eaten also and that proves there is electricity in the rad. Where its coming from I don't know. I have been getting an old car of mine worked on so I can have a 2nd car...but they will be looking at it again as soon as I get the car back to them. They said there wasn't anything but there obviously is something there because the rad keeps leaking. I also notice that my rpm gauge jumps every once in a while. I must have a wire grounding out on the body some where. Anybody have a good technique to find a needle in a hay stack?

 

I maybe have another "crutch" but not the exact cure.

I have been a diesel mechanic for a while now and we deal with this problem as well. Sometimes it's electric, like you have said. Sometimes, the type of antifreeze used reacts with certain metals inside the engine. Sometimes it just happens for no reason.

Unfortunately, we don't get the "easy" repairs like radiators. When we get electrolysis it usually eats up the replaceable cylinder liners and that costs big bucks. Lots of diesel companies (CAT, Cummins, Detroit, etc..,) have different additives to treat the condition and tame the PH level to keep the electrolysis under control. I work for Detroit now and they use Nalcool. It makes the antifreeze purple. You can get it from NAPA and they call it NAPAKOOL. You can also go to a Detroit Diesel parts guy (most Western Star and Freightliner parts guys have it as well) and get it straight or 50/50 mixed by the gallon in jugs like you use for antifreeze now. This stuff saves a lot of engines, let me tell you. I am in the generator business and we see a lot of electricity going to places it shouldn't be.

My two rules; GROUND EVERYTHING and use the PowerCool Detroit antifreeze.

While your engine is running, take your voltmeter out. Stick the negative on the negative of your battery and stick the positive in the coolant (with the radiator cap off) without touching the sides of the radiator and see if you have a reading. You need to do it running in case your DC alternator is tracking some power to ground and running it through your engine brackets to your cooling system. Do you have your alternator grounded at the mounting bolt? You should do that too. Does your radiator leak just from sitting or does it only happen after you have been running the car? That's why the DC Alternator may shoulder some of the blame...

Use the zinc anode for the time being. That's the one I use on fire pump engines to treat the raw water in the heat exchangers. They will also eat theirs up fast if electricity is tracking to the pipes. Like I said, GROUND EVERYTHING!!

Good luck!

 

Hey man...I would've replied sooner but I was never notified by Third Gen in my email that a reply hit the post...

Anyway...I guess I can try anything at this point.

FYI...just so you know...I already had a shop test the fluid and they SAID they didn't find any electricity in the rad. fluid. Well...I went and had the rad. fixed and ordered the Annode Rad cap...but I ran the rad without it for 2 weeks before I recieved the Annode cap. Well...right after I put the Annode cap on...within a week it started leaking again. I checkthe Annode and sure enough...it had been being eaten. Now I believe the damage had already been done and the annode cap wasn't installed in time to help. Anyway...I called the shop and told them... "Look...you guys said you didn't find anything in the fluid but I am holding the annode cap in my hand and it shows signs of being eaten..." They said that this is just bizarre"...and that I should bring it back out to them. I am kind of sick of the car now becasue of this mess...I keep dropping money on it when I should probably just buy a new car...but the problem is I can't afford a monthly payment on a ntoher car...nor the gas to drive it on top of that.

Lets just say I got a monthly payment of 250...then I pay 150 or more in gas a month...that is 400 dollars a month to drive a car. Right now I pay 140 a month in gas to basically get back and forth from work. I can't afford any more than 200 a month for car related expenses...oil changes...fuel...radiator fluid...windshield washer fluid...etc...etc...this just goes to show that I need to get this fixed so I can keep driving a paid off car. Other than that...I have driven the car for nearly 200K and really had no major issues since replacing the engine 150K ago. It had a bad head gasket and I even tried to bring it in before it happened and they said it was fine...a week later the engine gernaded...stupid GM Techs...they made more work for themselves...by not believing me. It was driven very sparsely by the previous old guy that owned and they said the seals got dried out. Now after all this time has passed...I am wondering...has this car had an issue all a long? My answer is...YES. I think it has had a problem all along....I have replaced the rad. in this car at least 6 times since I owned it.

I've had 3 Brass/Copper...1st original...2nd factory replacement...present one is a custom made brass/copper....in between those one I had 2 plastic tank ones and even an all aluminum race rad. from Howe racing Rad. in Michigan. That one last 9 months. So...I have had every freakin type of rad. under the sun and none of them have held up...none of them...the difference is now its happening in under 3 weeks whereas before it was taking 9 months to a year and 3 months to develop...now its happening so fast it makes my head spin...something has seriously made it much worse.

 

One thing is for sure, you must check a lot of things yourself. Please do yourself a favor and check the voltage. Then do yourself a bigger favor and put the nalcool in.

I'm not trying to push you but you can do this! You don't need to pay some shop to fart around any longer. Nobody knows your car or history as well as you do.

You've asked for help, so now what?

By the way, where are you located?

 

There is one method you can use to isolate an electrical short. It's a lot of work, but you can find short circuits this way. I once worked as a service technition in an RV dealership, and I did all of the electrical work. Finding a short circuit on a 40 foot motorhome can be a real nighmare. I had to come up with ideas that worked. Disconnect the positive post on the battery, and connect a 12 volt trouble light between the positive post on the battery and the positive post on the car. Any short circuits will create a ground and make the light glow. Also light bulbs and other items, like the clock on the car will create a ground and cause the light to glow, giving you a false positive for a short. Once you have removed all of the bulbs, you can isolate the problem by disconnecting items all over the car one at a time, until the light goes out. You should be able to isolate the problem part. Your short circuit may be in something that is turned on frequently, but not constantly, causing the mechanic to miss it. It could be in the turn signal circuit, windshield wipers, or brake light circuit, making it very difficult to track down.

 

Well..I am going to have to try this stuff...yeah...searching for them shorts in an R/V!!! Wow...I sure wouldn't have wanted that job man!!! Holy Cow! I have talked to another shop and the guy said he would help me do it myself...but since I already paid the other shop and they said they didn't find anything...they already owe me for work already performed becasue I paid them and they said they didn't find anything but there is definately something there...so they are getting it back again and I don't intend on paying them until they find something.

Hey Kris...I am in Kenosha, WI...

The time is the real issue. When I work all week long and then on the weekends I ussually have side jobs. I can't tear the car down and leave it...I need to drive it...that's where the problem comes in. I can borrow a car but that is such a pain in the neck for the person I borrow it from.

I have checked a lot of the things I have done...specifically...the dual electric flex-a-lite fans. I checked all the grounds and all the connectors...I even went through and replaced ALL the crimp connectors for the fan...and basically ALL the connectors I ever touched and still it ended up leaking again. I mean...I have replaced all the bulbs in the front headlights....but the turn indicators still do not light up...the 3rd brake light has basically never worked, the motor on the power antenna went bad, the CD player doesn't work but the radio works fine, the low oil sensor sometimes comes on at start-up even though the oil is at the proper level but I turn the car off and on again and it goes away...I have cleaned it but it still sometimes does it, the low windsheild washer fluid sensor stays on all the time. I have disconnected it, when I adjust the steering column level...high or low...I notice the Tach. will jump up and down sometimes... also sometimes when the car is decelerating during braking...the rpm needle will jump straight to the bottom of the tach...flutter...then jump back up to the proper rpm. I mean...I think the whole wiring harness needs to be replaced...and every wire in the car needs to be replaced and what the heck the freakin computertoo while I am at it! So...this leads me to want to just get rid of the car but for financial reasons...I can't afford another car yet.

 

Do you have the fans grounded sepately? Make sure that you have each fan grounded to the frame and not the radiator...

 

In eariler posts you mentioned having the radiator isolated electrically from the car. If the car has steel transmission cooler lines attached, the radiator is grounded to the transmission, and thus the engine. Have you thought about a brass/copper replacement radiator, instead of alluminum? Charles

 

theres only one thing left to do..

switch the entire engine over to aluminum...



put an LS1 in it.

 

Hey Charles...
Actually...I have a brass and copper replacement rad. Its a 3 core. The rad shop that made it took the tanks from an 80's truck/car. It has built in trans/oil coolers. The boses around the tranny line are what is leaking right now...and ussually the rad. will start leaking form the tranny cooler side...so you might be on to something there. I am going to put in a very short length of rubber hose in the metal lines to cut the possible flow of current between the two metal lines...because yes...they are going metal line to metal tank/tranny cooler. The rad shop said that the boses are where it keeps leaking from...like the solder that he uses keeps being eaten away. I told him that I have droplets of solder in my driveway and he didn't beleive me. He said the coolent would have to get like more than 700* to melt solder...and then I asked...it doesn't if there a raw direct current touching the rad.

I am going to give the shop one more chance to look at it. This isn't just some shop down the street from my house...its a very pro shop and the owner has been mentioned in a lot of the big chevy and muscle car mags for his work. I swear to God...they should be able to figure it out. The only reason I want them to look at it one more time is because the owner Norm agreed with me and said that if that annode is being eaten that there is definately electricity in fluid at some point. He said that I paid him money and they said they didn't find anything but yet I have proved to them that it is there and that they are obligated to find it. He said it may be coming from the trans line...because the rad is sitting in rubber mounts on the top and bottom of the tanks. The oil lines are interrupted by rubber tubing but the tranny lines aren't. So if what your saying about the tranny lines...there might be a current being transfered through the lines...through the rad and then trying to ground out to the rad. It has to be it because the rad keeps leaking on that side tank and especially right around the line boses in the tank. The 93 Caprice has a brass copper heater core..where as the 94-96 all had aluminum ones...and they had Dex-Cool...so...it really shouldn't suffer from problems with electrolyisis because I run green fluid and green fluid doesn't promote electrolysis like Dex-Cool. Since I have changed the fluid out so much...it makes me think its not truely electrolysis because the fluid has been changed out so much that its not as dirty as it would need to be for an electrical current to be carried throughout the fuild. After all...if it WAS going through the fluid of the ENTIRE system...the heater core would've crapped out on my too by now because its made out of brass/copper too!

Previously I had aluminum ones. 2 with plastic tanks...they probably lasted the longest...then I had a Howe Racing aluminum one...that lasted for 9 month and started leaking from around the top 3 tubes area on the pass. side rad tank (tranny cooler side again). The plastic ones were eventually seperating from the plastic tanks...at least I thought...but they did last for almost a year and 1/2 or so... most of the time. Everything has gotten worse with these wider rads. I have had...the Howe was a very wide two-core... because aluminum doesn't have the same heat conduction properties as brass/copper. The aluminum one needs wider rows in the core to dissipate heat across the core...where as a brass/copper...it conducts heat better and can dissipate the heat across 2 or 3 smaller rows of tubes. The primary reason that rad. manufacturers went to aluminum was becasue it was cheaper than brass/copper. Then of course they figure the plastic tanks aren't gonna corrode and plastic can be recycled...so they pay for molds and use plastic tanks.

The Flex-A-Lite fan I have is pretty stout.

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html...-electric.html

Everytime somebody at a shop or a friend sees it they say..."man...you ain't messing around with that thing..." It is surrounded by rubber all the way around the shroud to cushion it nicely away from the rad. core. I used the plastic 94-96 Caprice/Impala SS rad. mount at the top and had to Dremel out a few things but it works perfectly to support the rad. For the bottom I used the stock mechanical fan shroud but Dremeled out the part that attaches to the radiator shelf only so it is basically a long flat strip of plastic with two rubber mounts at each end. It couldn't have been easier. I then hung the fan off of two small aluminum 90* brackets that I screwed to the upper 94-96 rad. mount and then fashioned a couple of strips of a aluminum for the bottom that allowed me to cinch up the slack and get the fan nice and tight on the rad. When the Howe rad was in there...The whole set up looked like it was graced by the hands of the performence Gods. It was so clean and I took so much time doing it..people said it looked pro and that's what I was going for... a real professional clean look.

 

Hey man...I see where you going with that and that would be great and all but if there is an electrical problem related to the rad. fluid...then an LS1 with aluminum parts really wouldn't be a solution becasue if it IS electrolysis...then all the aluminum parts would be getting eaten away by any possible electrical current. This is actually the big problem with Dex-Cool. It's says not to change it for 100K miles but it gets so filled with debris that any kind of electricity has an even better chance of running through the fluid and grounding out at the rad. or even the heater core which is 9 times out of ten made out of aluminum in these newer cars also which most service places have to attach a ground strap to when cars come in having problems. They have to ground the heater core to make sure that it doesn't fail due to electrolysis also.

Guys have put the LS1 in a B-Body and it requires a lot of fabrication work to change the engine mounts on the frame...and the computer and the wiring harness needs to be converted as well. Sure a 345-350 hp Ls1 would be great but the amount of money it takes to modify to fit right far exceeds the money for just the engine alone. That would probably be almost a 10K dollar job and that's just plain flat out not worth it to me. Aside from my rad problems...and the engine replacement shortly after I got the car 7 years ago...the car has been very reliable....it may very well be the weakest TBI 350...but it turns over and runs every single day without all the problems the LT1 versions of 94-96 had...OptiSpark and dex-cool and all the sensor related issues...the electronic trans....all that stuff makes the 1991-1993 B-Bodys a very reliable car overall. The engine that is in there now has 160K on it and it still scoots outs...doesn't burn any oil...gets 17 MPG daily driving...etc...

I have been wanting to build a TBI engine for my car...it would be easiest to do and still have good driveability and not require a whole bunch of mods. If I am going to have an LS1 engine...its going to be in a Vette or an F-Body.

 

If your car came from the factory with plastic tanks on the ends of the radiator, then the steel cooling lines from the transmission were electrically isolated from the alluminum part of the radiator by the plastic. The transmission cooler inside of the tank was not isolated. The coolant has some conductivity, but it is weak compared to a metal to metal connection. The lower the voltage, the less conductivity water/coolant provides. For instance, lightning will travel about 50 feet in a lake before it disipates. Charles

 

Nope...the original was a 2 core brass/copper. That one went out also in the first year of driving...since I had an extended warranty at the time...it got replaced with a Modine 2 core brass/copper. That one lasted for nearly 2 years if I remember correctly...then I had 2 more plastic tank ones after that...each of those lasted about 1 year and 3 months or so. Then I went to the Howe...which only lasted 9 months...I sent it back to Howe...they fixed it. Then it started leaking in 3 weeks. I sent it back and Chas...the owner...said he was just gonna give me my money back. He was sick of all the back and forth...and I was angry that I paid so much for a rad. that was leaking. Well...it turns out that it wasn't his rad. at all...it was my car! (Sorry Howe!!!) Then I went to this 3 core brass/copper. It only lasted 3 weeks. Then I had it fixed...it started leaking again in 3 weeks...then he fixed it again...and again in 3 weeks it started leaking. Here we are today...still leaking. I am going to talk to the shop this morning and will update you a bit later today.

 

Wow...wonders never cease.

So...the shop called me the other day and asked me about what fluid I had been using. I told them Prestone green stuff that you get at Walmart. So...they asked specifically what version...I said Prestone Extended Milage 150,000 Miles Stuff...its green I said.

http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/pr...?product=39529

They said that Prestone's "All Makes All Models" green is NOT tradiational green. It's a Dex-Cool Clone...its made to mix with any coolant of any color....and it does not have the metal protection qualities or traditional green. It does not have the chemical composition required to protect brass copper but most of all...lead solder. This is the problem...the Prestone coolant actually aides electrolysis because it does not have the chemical composition to protect brass/copper but particularly the led solder used to repair the pin hole leaks...which is where my rad keeps leaking from...the lead used is being eaten away right after being fixed. This time he is going to try using a nonlead solder.

Real true traditional green coolant (Zerex/Peak) is used in brass/copper applications. Prestone's "All Makes, All Models" statement has been determined to be a bunch of hogwash...and since it was green in color...I thought it was traditional green...and its not. The entire time I have been using this Prestone type of coolant....its the same brand I have been using since I was a senior in high school so I trusted the brand naively...but this "new formula" they make is not what they say it is...its all false advertising of Prestone's part.

I am going to get the rad fixed again and we are going to use a totally different coolant like Peak or Zerex and I will report back. If it turns out to be the solution...Prestone is going to get hate mail from me.

Here are some links in case you would like to read up on it. i got it from "Bob Is The Oil Guy" oil forums.

Here's a qoute from a guy that helped me out:

"I wish I could dig out the internet article that mentioned silicated antifreeze works best with copper radiators by protecting the solder, brass, copper, or one of these components in the system."

Links to articles:

Here is one article by Paul Weissler that states "conventional" coolant SHOULD protect copper/brass radiators better:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._n9453107/pg_4

Here's another article recommending G05 in copper radiators:

http://www.csfimports.com/tech.htm#antifrz

Here is one article that says NOT to use OAT in copper systems:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/us90554.htm

This link talks about Peak Long Life...then the 2nd posters asked about Prestone and the 3rd post explains it to be a Dex-Clone...read the few posts following also...then they get into some bickering but the info is right there...to me...this HAS to be the problem:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...e=0#Post933485

I can't beleive I kept putting the same fluid in my car every single time and I never once thought there was anything wrong with it because it was freakin' green. I mean...why would they make an antifreeze that truely isn't traditional green in chemical breakdown but market it as a true traditional greeen that can mix with everything. I'll admit that I probably do have an electrical problem but it was apparently enhanced by this fluid because it makes the lead in the tank a grounding point. I dropped a bunch of money on a problem because that was falsely advertised by Prestone. It is truely not ALL MAKES ALL MODELS!!! Its a bunch of bull and I am royally p'd off. I hate Presone and I will never buy their junk ever again.

Here ya go...Valvoline apparently reported Prestone to the Federal Trade Commission....

http://www.gohtsn.com/article_321.shtml

BTW...this is what I should be using...and so should you if your car was made before 1994....

Zerex Original Green:

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ....asp?product=8

Thanks to everyone that has offered advice.

JB

FYI:

http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=45077

Finally...isn't it bizarre that everybody in this thread suggested Prestone...Ugh...

http://www.detroitgasprices.com/Foru...5480&page_no=1

 

did changing brands/type of coolant help?

 

What`s the latest? I am filling my radiator with anti freeze as we speak.

 

two weeks since new pass. side tank was installed...with no solder repairs...no leaks yet...give it time though....3 weeks was the record in the last 9 months...we will see how it goes. Make sure to use traditional green....

 

5 Weeks still holding....

That is all.