Ok so heres a long story, basically I have an 87 Sport Coupe that had the original engine in it and it was leaking water from the freeze plugs, and I think it needed a head gasket replaced because it would gradually get hotter in the summer, especially in stop in go traffic.

I decided to try and stretch the life out of it and bought that liquid sealer stuff you pour in the radiator and try it out. To my surprise it actually stopped the leaks and cooled it down a bit. But then the problems arose.

I drained the radiator (Not fully flushing the cooling system out of all of that stuff ) and installed a champion 2 core radiator. Drove it for a few months until I had enough money saved to replace the whole engine.

So I just picked up the car, which I bought the 260p 350cid crate engine they sell on Jegs.com and that went in. While I was at it I replaced the water pump with a CW V-belt Stewart water pump because I heard they were good.

When I picked up the car from the shop they said "Well its running at around 230 degrees but I think the gauge is messed up because if it were that hot it would be boiling over." I really needed the car because it is my daily driver and I took it. When I started it it took a while and I noticed the idle was really low so I advanced it a little (By ear I dont know how much)
figuring it should help a little, but it didnt. when you drive it it just seems to to get hotter and hotter and hotter, the only time it kind of stays constant and cools is when its at idle.

Any ideas what could make it overheat? During the swap over I had to get a new harmonic balancer because the mechanic said the one I provided wouldnt work because it was for an 87 style motor and the engine motor I was an older model, so I bought one for a 79 camaro with a 350, could that be it?

They mentioned to get a new radiator because of the stuff I put in but why would it cool at idle not driving if its the radiator? Also why did the old engine cool better than the new engine if it was the radiator? I didnt notice that the oil pressure at idle was around 15, is that normal? Of course when I drive it goes up to about 30. Maybe the balancer?

Like I said I have a stewart CW rotating water pump, Champion 2 core radiator, 180 Degree T-stat, and stock 18 inch fan that comes on when the ignition does. I played with the timing a bit to no luck and all the hoses were replaced during the swap. Could a clogged heater core be the problem? ANY advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

could check that the fan is running the right way(pulling air rearward through the radiator)one member on here had the problem you described and the cause was fan running wrong way.If you are using the line on the crank damper to time the engine make sure it is the correct one for the timing tab position-most 305s and many 350s starting ~1980 have the timing tab below the water pump while 350s often have the tab in about a 1:30 position,that must be what the mechanics meant by the '87 damper not working with the replacement engine.

 

I would assume its probably the sealer you used stuck in the radiator.
what brand sealer did you use?
have you bled the coolant system?
Is your fan electric or mechanical? does it have a shroud?
Do you have all of the factory radiator air ducting/deflector?


I had a similar situation with my Camaro, the head gaskets blew and I put some sealer in it. It made the car barely drivable so I could move it around so it didn't get towed away, (of course then the ignition went out and after I replaced the ignition pickup the fuel pump decided to die but that's a whole different story) When I removed the radiator it had a lot of the sealer still left in it and the radiator was not even a year old but its trash now.

 

Just an update I took it for highway driving and it showed no sign of cooling down, it stayed constant and when I stopped to turn around before it got worse it rose up 10 degrees.

I know if im in front of the car looking down at the fan it spins counter clockwise, I even stuck my hand in front of the AC condenser and I can feel the air being sucked through both.

But thats EXACTLY what the mechanic said, I remember him saying the timing line being in a different location which is why he had me buy another one. Like I said im just timing the car by ear and not really looking at the damper, is there a proper way I could be doing this?


So I was thinking about taking out the rad and getting it rebuilt tomorrow because if I havent mentioned, I need the car by monday. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

 

I am thing it might be the same thing, tomorrow im going to pull the radiator and get it rebuilt.I asked the mechanice to purge the cooling system but im sure he didnt. Either going to rebuild the champion that or get the original 3 core rebuilt and see how that goes, sucks because the champion was 250. But its a stock electric fan that has the original shroud. The car was originally my fathers and he kept it as original as possible. I sure hope its the radiator because as I mentioned it doesnt make sense how with that same radiator the original motor ran cooler than the newer one. I will post a reply of what I find tomorrow.

 

Is your car carb or TPI? It is not unusual for a stock TPI car to run at 230 degrees. Thats normal.

 

Right now its a carbed 350 that I bought from Jegs. It was the 260hp 350 they had on sale for 1500.



Sucks because I installed the dual fans that came with the champion radiator thinking it would help, but no such luck. Im going to pick up another radiator from autozone just to test if it is the radiator. Going to get the stock 3 core it came with rebuilt on monday.

 

I would try flushing the radiator with a garden hose before trying to get it rebuilt. To flush the radiator drain the coolant, remove the upper and lower hose from the radiator, put the garden hose in the upper radiator outlet and watch the lower outlet for any junk coming out and how much water flow you get. You can also take the radiator out, turn it upside down and back flush it from the lower outlet. If that doesn't work you could take it to a radiator shop and have them flush and/or rebuild it.

What timing cover/marks are you using?
What is the diameter of your harmonic balancer?
What intake and carb do you have?
Why does your fan come one with the ignition?

You should really check the timing with a timing light.

If I were you I would take the car back to the shop that put the engine in and have them check the timing, check the temp gauge and just look it over in general. They should be able to do that quickly and for free.

 

As far as timing marks I dont have a timing gun to verify where its at, Ive been just been trying to time it by ear for the last 2 days to see if anything gets better.

The balancer I had to purchase according to the mechanic was ordered from autozone which belonged to a 79 camaro 350cid, diameter being 6.744, pretty damn close to the original 6.75 in the 87 motor.

Intake is a Proffessional Products Cyclone intake and the carb is the CC quadrajet, I considered replacing it with a Edelbrock or just putting a kit on it, I heard somewhere a mixture too lean might cause overheating.

I already picked up the radiator from autozone today, going to install it tomorrow, I already called the mechanic and explained to him the car is worse than it was when I took it to him and I would be dropping it off to him monday if the radiator didnt work.

Thing that just trips me out is that no matter what I do to the cooling system it just manages to get hotter and hotter, the only time it stays constant is when it idles, when I driver forget it, it gets abotu 10 degrees hotter per minutes of driving.

 

1. Please list everything that was changed on the motor when you did the motor swap. Did your mechanic set the initial timing? Does he know how? Too many questions. lol

2. Did you "burp" the motor when the new motor went in? If not, you will get air bubbles in the coolant system and it will oveheat/run hot.

3. GET A TIMING LIGHT, you risk serious damage to the motor if it's not set right. Also, if the timing is too advanced, your motor may run hot.

4. Our cars are designed to run hot, over 210*. The factory electric fan's do not turn on until 225*. If it's not boiling over, it's not overheating. I put a cooler fan switch in, turns on at 215*, but on my gauge, it's the hash between the 220 and the red line. SO my gauge is off...this is also a common problem with our cars.



5. Is the airdamn under the front of the car in good shape? This is how our cars cool themselves on the hightway above 35mph. Without it you'll run hot or overheat.

I'l think of more questions to ask in a bit. But please tell us as much about the car as you can.

 

Thanks for your reply bruh but here you go


1. THe number one thing that was changed that might concern me was the harmonic balancer that I had to purchase, which was to a 79 camaro 350, I dont think that would throw off everyting but who knows. I also changed the flywheel, t-stat, starter, radiator, water pump, power steering pump, cap and rotor. TO be honest I dont think he even set initial timing or even knows what the pi$$ he was doing, I remember the day before I picked it up from him he was looking for a "timing cable" to set a base timing and in the notes it said he ended up "timing by ear" (which was way too retarded I had to advance it a little) and I think that may be the problem, the fact that I dont think he set initial timing.

How would it be running if he didnt set initial timingand im just trying to get it right by ignition timing? One thing I noticed that was weird is if the car is idling and I rev to about 3k RPM the tach will shoot straight down to 0 and the car will backfire, one time it just turned off completely. I know its ignition related but is that normal?


2. No I havent burped the coolant system how do you do that? Can I just search it on here and find out?


3. Once I do get the timing light, because I am leaning on getting one, hows exactly would that benefit me if the mechanic didnt set initial timing? I dont have the tools or time between work and school to work on the car because its my daily driver.

4. Currently the cars fan is wired straight to the ignition and is on as soon as the key is turned, I am also using a cheap after market temp gauge because the original one is pegged way passed full.

5. I think the air damn is in decent shape because when I drive the it on the highway it almost never sees past 170, its when it comes to city driving it heats up to about 215, which is the hottest I let it get im usually home in the parking lot by then


Thanks for all your questions, I hope this clears up some things, let me know if you can think of anything that leads to my revving and popping situation, thanks!!!

 

So I replaced the radiator on sunday with a cheap little oreilys stock replacement, a aluminum core single row plastic outside and well guess what, it cooled the engine a hell of a lot more than my champion 2 row aluminum WITH the dual fans installed on it :\

I guess the sealer I used did plug stuff up in it, so now Im goint to take it to get re-cored because I dont want that to be a 250 dollar waste of money. Ill replace it once its ready to go.

So now the cars thermostat failed (luckily it was a failsafe thermostat) and water is constantly flowing, just like the fan runs all the time and its only reached about 215 degrees in 90 degree weather. I usually only drive from work and back which is about 75% highway and 25% city driving.

Is that a reasonable temp for a new engine? Im sure if I drove more in the city back in my 110+ degree weather in Texas it would be boiling over. Shouldnt it be a little colder since I plan on installing the champion 2 row with a stewart stage 1 waterpump?

One weird thing that I noticed since I advanced the timing a tad, the "service engine soon" light comes on as soon as the ignition is turn on and stays on. Originally it would only come at EXACTLY 5 minutes or running and it would only effect the 4th gear, like the rpm would drop a tad but now its on all the time, should I be concerned.


I am tempted to take the car back to the mechanic but like I mentioned, he was looking for a "timing cable" the whole time when he tried timing it and I dont think he even knows how to set initial timing. Im not sure I even trust him any longer to touch it, as it is the bastard cross threaded the bottom inlet transmission line to the radiator on my champion and blamed it on the design of the radiator :\ strange because im an ejection seat maintainer in the Air Force and I got it right the first time installed it.

 

my advice to you, find an engine shop locally i mean one with a good reputation and take the car their to tell them everything that happened, i have never heard of "timing by ear" i think you may be referring to the idle when you adjusted it? thats not adjusting the timing, i would get the car to a good shop before some serious damage occurs to your new 350, also that 260 hp is at the crank, not to the wheels, and it was attained with the parts they listed if you don't use them you don't have 260 hp

 

1. replace the themostat.

To burp the motor, fill it with coolant, then then the car on and turn the heater to "hot" and turn the fan on for it while leaving the radiator cap off. As the car heats up, when the thermostat opens, you'll see the coolant start tomove in the radiator. As the car gets hotter you'll see the coolant raise up, then drop significantly. When it does this, it's releasing an airbubble in the system..hence the term "burp". This may happen a few times. After each one, with the car running, add more coolant.


You can pick up a timing light for under $30.00. To set the timing...

Disconnect the 4-wire flat connector that comes from the distributor. It'll be between the distributor and the brake booster somewhere...might be buried a bit. Hook up the timing light. The power lead to the positive post on the battery and the other end to the numbe 1 plug wire (you can't really mess this up). Loosen the hold down bolt on the distributor.

Start the car. Aim the timing light down at the timing tabs on y our balancer. With the timing light flashing at it, you should be able to see the mark in it against the timing tabs. Advance thet iming to 6* "above" the 0. Tighten down the distributor, turn off the car and reconnect the four wire connector.

That's it, timing is set. Shouldn't take you more than an hour if you're being extremely careful and deliberate.

Our cars are designed to run hot. The factory fan switch doesn't turn on until 225* so you're engine temps are fine.


So you're Egress huh? I work LANTIRN on the 15's and ECM Pods on the 16's. Airforce! Hoah!

 

Timing.

 

That's kind of what I was thinking, much of what he's described could be timing.

 

Yep, definatley check timing first. Look at the attached timing chart. Also, like other members stated, burping the cooling system helps to bring temps down a lot.Then go from there.

 

Im pretty sure it might be timing as well, so lately ive just had a little budget contraints so maybe next week ill be able to get that timing light and properly time it to what it needs to be. As of now im not driving the car because its been getting up to 110 in Norcal so I dont want to ruin anything by driving it.

Quick question, right now its the single electric fan unit and I was wondering, did these spin at two different speeds or did they only have 1 speed? I was looking at how far the radiator is from the ac condenser and its a good inch and a half and as far as I can remember, even when my dad owned the car, its had an overheating problem.

I was thinking if timing isnt the issue to switching to a mechanical fan setup, but thats IF timing wasnt the issue. Ill post back when I know exactly what my timing is supposed to be set at, I know that GM said that engine I have likes 10 to 15 degrees of timing, so ill tough back when I know for sure.