mreld3r

iTrader: (4)

I live in Texas and drive a black/black car with t-tops.
I feel like a bug under a magnifying glass with all the glass over my head and back.
Here is what I want,,,is it possible?
High performance blower fan?
Turbo-charged a/c system?
I don't care about power loss,,,im HOT.
My compressor leaks down; so I will buy a new one.
Im gonna put a Taurus puller-fan on the rad.
AND an aux pusher on the front of the condensor.
Can I buy a souped-up condensor/compressor or something?
What would be a good compressor that will bolt on.
As you can tell; I know nothing about an A/C system except that I
don't even wanna drive my car anymore without it.
thanks

Stonehenge

iTrader: (3)

Hi, don't mean to get in your business but I did something you might want to consider.. I live in Virginia but my car was getting way too hot when i first got in it. I knew I couldn't fix my a/c for a few more weeks so what I did was I took off the t-tops, painted them satin black on the inside, waited two days, then using some spray on adhesive I installed some felt lining. Where my t-tops were too hot to touch when I first would get in my car, now are just slightly warm. Then interior also seems to be way easier to cool after i turn the ac on. My friends all seem to think it's factory install but you and I know better. If you do this, remember to make the outline with chalk, you don't want the felt to touch the weather stripping or you won't make a seal (don't ask how I know this..) I was born and raised in Houston,Texas, so i know your dilemma, with that said, when I did live there I had an 87 IROC and the ac kept the inside cool, I didn't need any high performance blower or anything.. Good luck in your efforts..

Stone

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I don't know of any aftermarket blower fans.

Our cars use tube & fin condensers, which are the worst in terms of performance. Parallel flow condensers work the best, but it generally means making your own lines to fit them. In other words, they're not a simple unhook the old one and pop in a new one. Plus they are slightly different sizes to choose from. There isn't an 82-92 identical size parallel flow replacement.

The biggest non-A/C related items relate to keeping the engine cool. By that, I mean a bigger radiator will help keep the engine at 200° or less rather than 230° on hot days. The condenser sheds heat to the radiator as well as funnels air to itself from the air dam (make sure the air dam is in good shape)

I didn't do a fan in front of the condenser because that's where my transmission cooler is. And I think those are mandatory for anywhere in Texas.

Stock compressor replacement should be fine.

Black on black is tough here. I'm the same way except hardtop. Tint is your friend. Don't go for those $75 tint your car shops. They'll put junk tint on that gives about 15-20% heat rejection and will bubble up in no time (dyed tint = bad tint). Get a good high performance metalized or ceramic tint and you'll see 50-65% heat rejection.

To run some numbers, if it's 95° outside and 160° inside the car without tint (sitting in a hot parking lot), it would be 120° inside the car with tint. While that doesn't sound particularly cool, it makes a HUGE difference in comfort.

But even something as simple as replacing the leaking compressor will mean your car won't short cycle the A/C compressor and as a result you'll get some good cooling, rather than next to nothing.

mreld3r

iTrader: (4)

thank you guys, i really appreciate your help.
I will go back with an OEM compressor.
I'm gonna buy some guages and a cheap vacuum pump.
I can buy them cheaper than getting someone to do it at a shop; AND
I will have them for future repairs. I am really studying alternative refrigerants.
It seems like r134 is not the best. I want all the help i can get.
Since i will be flushing, replacing the drier AND compressor; I can go with whatever refrigerant I want! The condenser idea may be a good idea; I will research that more. Thanks.
I DO have good tint and t-top covers, but thank you for mentioning that also.
I remember as a kid, the frost coming outta the a/c vents; and it was so cold it would give you a headache if it blew into your face. Of course that was many years ago; but I know it IS possible. I was just HOT and frustrated when I wrote this post. But even my newer car with good a/c just really ain't that good.
thanks again
mike

_MIKE_P

iTrader: (1)

Just a heads up, many Autozones will loan A/C gauges, vacuum pumps and flush guns. I'm rebuilding my system and went that route. You pay the cost upfront but get it all back when you return them within 90 days. Pretty sturdy Mastercool branded stuff.

I tried r134a but wasn't impressed. When it leaked out I tried the r152a can duster method and noticed an improvement in cooling performance. Driving down the highway the system is comparable in temperature to my Maxima (40-45F) but the small condenser doesn't quite keep up when standing still. This is in 110F+ early afternoon Phoenix sun without t top covers or tint on the side windows yet. In the mornings or at night the system gets plenty chilly.

mreld3r

iTrader: (4)

These are some fantastic ideas, thank you
I have been researching the r152; and since I will be starting from scratch that will be fairly easy to do. The autozone hint is also a good idea.
I have been researching just buying a vacuum pump AND a set of gauges.
They have some inexpensive ones that are much cheaper than going to an
a/c shop. After all; I am a hot rodder and I wanna do it myself. I dont like other people working on my car. If I learn to do it myself; I will never be at
anyones mercy, and I know it will be done right. Don't you love the internet.
I am still doing research on parallel flow condensors. I can do the same to my
a/c as I do with my engine. Upgrading it as needed. We all spend many dollars
on our engines to make them go faster; I'm gonna learn how to soup-up my a/c. Thanks for the tips guys.
mike
The r152 conversion really seems like something i wanna try. I read a "how-to" article with lots o' pics on an S-10 forum. The more information I have; the more options I have to explore.

joshc

iTrader: (1)

make sure when you get your parts changed over, you need to draw a vacuum on the system. Make sure it holds vacuum for 30 minutes or so. If the system doesnt hold the vacuum, you have a leak. Better to find out now rather than after you just put your new expensive refrigerant in!

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I tried the R152A conversion this week and was not too happy with the results. I have since had to replace a leaky schrader valve on the high side, so needless to say, even though I changed everything in the system, including new barrier hoses, compressor, condenser, and evaporator, I did overlook one thing and lost the charge. I will be giving it 1 more try as I have a suspicion I was overcharged by a few ounces. The charge needs to be roughly half of the R12 charge. That would be 24 ounces. I used 3 10 oz. cans, and figuring for some loss with the side can tap I figured I would be around that figure. Now I think I was a bit higher then where I was supposed to be. I also replaced the fan clutch. The thing is, the receiver drier was frosty cold, and the high side line was nice and warm. This time I am going to fill it with less, adjust the cycling switch to a lower pressure, and see where I am at. If that doesn't work then its back to R12. What do you guys think I should shoot for with the high and low side pressures?

rusty vango

there has been a lot of talk here and elsewhere about a refrigerant called R-406-A.supposedly it is compatible with our old R-12 systems. I am researching this as much as I can .but you should read up on it too. could be a godsend for us

mreld3r

iTrader: (4)

Getting ready; bought some gauges and a vacuum pump. Tomorrow, I will cut my teeth with my work car (honda civic) with bad condenser fan and probably low charge. Im gonna start out my iroc with just an r4, drier, orifice tube AND a new blower motor.
With my $150 worth of vacuum pump and gauges I can always upgrade if it is not satisfactory. I wanna start off the new system with r152, it doesn't get much cheaper than that. If it all leaks out, i won't lose a lotta money.
I have seen some people talk about the r-406, also found out that you can still buy r-12 on ebay. But some of the alternatives sure seem interesting. I think they may be better AND cheaper than R-12

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I tried the R152a again. Not too thrilled with it. I think I am going back to R12.

mreld3r

iTrader: (4)

82tarecaro
what kind of problems did you run into? why are you going back?

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I feel it performs like R134A. It just never gets cold enough. I pulled a vacuum and charged it, going slow on the 3rd can to make sure it did not get overcharged. It operates at lower pressures - I had 35 on the low and 200 on the high side. The receiver drier gets cold, and the high pressure line gets warm, but it just never cools as well as R12. I have my other car charged with hydrocarbon refrigerant and it performs better. Ultimately, nothing seems as good as R12. So the experiment is done. I am going back to R12.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Ultimately you need to play with the charge amount sliggtly, I found using the theoretical charge based off the molar weight vs R12 or R134a to leave me undercharged. On a GM system you turn the blower up to high, recirculate and charge until both the evaporator inlet and outlet are about the same temperature. At idle my Titan holds 40°F and driving down the road in 100+ °F at 75-80 mph I often see 37°F.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Your Titan was designed for R134A so it has a larger condenser and probably has an auxiliary fan that turns on with the AC. I don't think the third gen system is efficient enough. But I will try playing with the charge a bit before i give up hope

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The Titan has a tiny, thin condenser compared to the massive one in my 97 Express. It has a mechanical fan with a clutch only as Nissan deleted the pusher fan in 2009. Poor cooling at idle in traffic and very high head pressure is the reason I switched refrigerants.

You can buy a replacement condenser with parallel flow setup rather than the stock tube and fin. I believe it was through O'reilly that I bought one and installed in a 91 Formula along with a dual LS1 fan setup.

s10sbc350

Are your t-tops tinted any? If they arent then limo tint them bad boys lol and you can have like a few inches of the top of your front windshield limo tinted aswell which will help out a crap load just saying. Then put sun shades in your car if you arent in it and if your a/c works rite it should be pretty cold in there, as im in texas also and all our vehicles arent hot while driving in and we have the darkest tint allowed and what not anyways.

mreld3r

iTrader: (4)

ok, after doing MANY hours research; here is what I'm gonna use for a condenser.
RockAuto PRO Part # 7013231
While not a (true) parallel-flow condenser; it is a 6mm design, direct bolt-in for $85. From what I gather it is in between the stocker and a true parallel-flow. Can't beat that price! for a bolt-on.
It should be as good as a parallel-flow with enough fan power.
Bang for the buck.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

That's the condenser I used. The later model third gens used that design. It is quite a bit thinner then the original and you will need to change the isolators if your original was the older design. There is no direct fit parallel flow design for the third gen and you would need to do some fabrication to install it, as well as getting custom lines made. I think a true parallel flow will have the lines exit on opposite sides.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I don't have part numbers, but my stock AC on my 91 Formula was dead... I had all parts replaced, new GM compressor and the rest of the system replaced with other companies parts... My AC blows so cold it freezes my fingers by the steering wheel...

I haven't done the tint yet, but I am gonna get my t tops done too... I have a medical condition and doctors note to get the windshield (actually the whole car) any tint I want... will get 35% all around.... The tint really makes a difference in my daily driver...

Black on Black in FL

Rafael

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

What are you running for a fan on the underperforming a/c?

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Fast355 - I am running the stock fan with a new heavy duty fan clutch. Before I swapped out the clutch for a new unit my temps were climbing with the AC on, but now the car runs cool.
What are your experiences with hydrocarbon refrigerants? Do you think they cool better then the R152A?
Rafael - what type of refrigerant did you use?

Richboll

Let us know how that works out. I can always use a little more cool air in my convertible on the days it's too hot to put the top down.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Stock R-12 and system was not working, so upgraded it and I'm pretty sure it was R-134a.
Total system (minus fans int he cabin) replaced... It's cold...

Rafael

formula1LE

iTrader: (3)

I suggest the most humogousy large electric fan you can fit!

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Black car in Florida with permission to go dark tint and you're going to go with 35%? Why??? That's too light.

Here is the door window of our Blazer with a strip of 15% on the bottom and a strip of 35% on top. The 15% is much preferable as far as I'm concerned. Better heat rejection. Better glare rejection. And still very easy to see through.

15% is what comes stock on the back windows of SUV's and pick up trucks.



Now for the windshield, I would either do Air Blue 80 or else go with a 50% tint.

Here are some pictures of Air Blue 80.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/appearance...arge-pics.html

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

That would probably work but I am trying to maintain a stock appearance. I remember the system used to blow ice cubes with R12. The only thing I have tried that comes close is propane blends but those aren't as good as R12 in extremely hot weather.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

A 60/40 Propane/Isobutane mix will freeze you out of a car with an R12 system. My 83 G20 would blow ice cubes with HC. The only way I was able to get good idle cooling wad by raising the hot idle to 800 ish. Pretty much impossible with a stock torque converter but worked great with my 2,800.

If you absolutely want to stay with a mechanical fan, I would consider searching for a fan from a GM vehicle with a towing or police package. 9c1Caprice or Commercial Cadillac comes to mind. Most of those will have blades with a steeper pitch and more blades for increased airflow.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

The air blue looks interesting... my skin and my eyes are both sensitive to light (gives new meaning to Knight Rider!).... The tint on the front windshield is good during the day, but due to the 2 sheets of glass with the laminate in the middle and the tint, lights at night time obtain an aura... everyone who drives my car at night says it's like being on drugs... I'm use to it...

Rafael

formula1LE

iTrader: (3)

I understand trying to keep a stock appearance-however regardless of what Freon or condensor you opt for, it all stills boils down (heh heh) to airflow and pulling heat out-the more air you can move, the more heat you can remove and maintain a good head pressure and keep it cool inside.

There are other things I've done to aid an AC system in keeping up with hot weather which includes:

Running an additive called 40-below along with just distilled water for coolant....it raises the boiling point of the coolant and aids in keeping engine temps lower and steady.

Along the same lines, run a water bypass style thermostat adapter which also means running an intake with rear coolant bosses....keeping an engine cooler aids in keeping the AC cool, too.

Wrap the low pressure lines with thermopadding to keep radiant engine heat off them.

HUGE electric fan to pull heat out.

There are other little things but you get the idea.....sometimes stock isn't good enough for cooling imo.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Oh yeah, I have ceramic coated Hooker 2055's and y pipe too, which keep under hood temps down...

Rafael

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

If i didn't have a choice i would add ectric fans but since I have some R12 I can't see changing the original appearance of the car and adding electric fans if I can just use R12 and get the performance that the system had originally. I wanted to try alternatives to see if anything matched R12. I wasn't happy with the R152A but I have had prior success with hydrocarbon refrigerant in an old Thunderbird that still works relatively well. I have a feeling ultimately the R12 will still prove to be the best if you can get some.

s10sbc350

Is this a show car, or an all 100% origonal camaro from like 69? Because if its a average 82 camaro then i dont think going to electric fans will look aftermarket much and you have less moving stuff with out the clutch type fan, anywyas i was really just curious why you want the stock fan lol.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Just my all original 82 Recaro. I tried to keep it mostly original.Besides, I can't see the point of changing it to elecrtic fans when I know I can still get the same performance with R12. I have it so I might as well use it.

s10sbc350

Oh all origonal recaro edition huh, lol then it makes some since now

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

The Air Blue is pretty neat. A 78% tint that does 43% heat rejection (about the same as a good 35% tint would do).....All the while retaining a mostly invisible look. Most people won't notice it's there)

In the day, R-12 was great. But now a days, I can't see why the HC blends wouldn't out do it.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

OK - here is a question I have. I just pulled out my 1989 Turbo trans Am and looked at the AC decal on it. The charge is 2.25 lbs. of R12. My 1982 TA indicates 3 lbs. of R12. I charged it with R152A according to the label. So if it originally had 48 ounces I tried to charge it with a bit more then half. I used 3 10 ounce cans of duster, figuring for losses from the side tap. But my system has the later 6mm condenser now. Am I overcharged? Should I have more like 18 ounces in the system? Why do the later model third gens have less charge?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Cannot say for certain on the Turbo V6 car, but I know the later model V8 cars have the compressor on the opposite side of the engine and shorter hoses to match. The condenser was also different between them.

I do not even charge these GM systems by weight. I put the first two cans into them, the first one upside down to quickly get oil returning into the compressor. Then as the charge amount approaches what I believe to be correct, I slow the charging rate. With the blower on high, I feel the evaporator inlet and outlet and charge until both are roughly the same temperature. Too little refrigerant and your system will not cool adequately because the compressor will run too hot from lack of cooling from the superheat as well as cause the compressor to cycle too early. Too much refrigerant and your headpressure will climb too high, bringing the low side pressure up with it. I have seen as little as a few ounces one way or the other cause the vent temps to climb 10*F or more.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Turbo v6 has the compressor on the driver's side with the same amount of hose as the 82. I think I am a bit overcharged. I drove it around today and it seemed to start off cold - even the receiver drier was frosty. Then as the system got hotter from use, the performance diminished. I should have stuck my gauge set on it but I bet the pressure climbed high. I need to lower the total charge a bit and see what happens. Granted, the car is black and it has to work hard, but it used to cool so much better. If I can't get it right the next step is to try the HC refrigerant.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Not trying to boast or anything, but litterally just finished converting my brothers 1980 Corvette to a R134a. We ended up installing a 1991 Firebird serpentine belt setup minus the smog pump. The compressor was within inches of its stock location and a stock replacement compressor manifold assembly with barrier hose types replaced the 33 year old part. I replaced all the o-rings in the system and flushed both the stock condenser and evaporator. Replaced the reciever dryer and went back with Ester oil since it is a used compressor on the car that was on a R12 system. I used a scale while charging this time. The system called for 3.75 lbs of R12. Using my method of charging, I put 3.10 lbs of R134a in the system. The only modification to the stock a/c system was the addition of a 18" 6-blade reverse rotation flex fan in place of the stock clutch as the new water pump is reverse rotation and longer than the original, requiring a more compact setup than stock. The compressor itself was changed, but the R4 with the serpentine clutch is the same as a V-belt unitl save for the clutch and pulley. The little 312 in the Vette has 272H10 Crane cam on a 110 LSA, requiring an idle speed of about 750 RPM out of gear to hold 600 in gear with the a/c on.

At 750 rpm idle in 98*F weather and 30% humidity, I am seeing a head pressure of 280 PSI, suction pressure of 35 PSI, and vent temps of 42*F and this is on HIGH fan speed with a car that does not yet have side window glass installed. I have a feeling when I troubleshoot the factory electric puller fan (sandwiched between the radiator and mechanical fan) and get it working the head pressure will drop substantially and the a/c will get colder. I have the cycling switch set to cut-off at about 22 PSI which is a fair bit lower than the R12 setting.

I have not even started to dig into my bag of a/c tricks to make this thing colder. Such as a Blue or Red Ford orifice tube, insulating the accumulator and return hoses, or R152a. We were just wanting to know what a pure stock system could do as we had heard these cars were horrible after converting.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

What made you decide to go with R134A?
The stock cutoff on the R12 low pressure switch should be 25. I turned mine down to about 20-21. I turned it 1/4 turn.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I have a 30 lbs cylinder in my garage for the sidework I do. I was out of the alternatives other than HC.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Well - that's a good enough reason. Sounds like the results were good. I have a blue Ford orifice in mine. I really think I can get this thing colder before I give up on it. Need time to mess with it.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Results were good but we want better once the windows and regulators go back on the "batmobile"

We are about to change the waterpump, fan clutch and fix a poorly retrofitted system on my brother's bosses 72 Chevelle Elcamino. It leaks everywhere including the evaporator which will be replaced. It has the old A6 on it with the wrong size pulley. I will be changing the clutch to one with the correct diameter pulley and resealing the system. The owner wants to stay with R134a and she said she wants it ice cold. This one still has the Suction Throttle Valve but I am converting it to a cycling setup with an Old Air Products conversion kit. Should be interesting.

badtenant

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone ever bought this condenser?

http://www.partstrain.com/store/deta...rce=productads

Says parallel flow but is it? It is a little pricey too!

badtenant

iTrader: (1)

Now it says it doesn't fit my car...Who knows

Here is what it says...

• 1992-1992: RS; 6 Cyl 3.1L; "GAS, FI, Naturally Aspirated, VIN T"
• 1992-1992: RS; 8 Cyl 5.0L; "GAS, FI, Naturally Aspirated, VIN E"
• 1992-1992: Z28; 8 Cyl 5.0L; "GAS, FI, Naturally Aspirated, VIN F"
• 1992-1992: Z28; 8 Cyl 5.7L; "GAS, FI, Naturally Aspirated, VIN 8"

Which letter is that in my VIN?

badtenant

iTrader: (1)

O.K...Figured it out! It does fit as my car is VIN "E" for LO3. Still expensive!

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I think it is the 6 mm Piccolo design. True parallel flow has the inlet and outlet on opposite sides. Just buy the unit from Rock auto or Amazon. I bought the same or similar design for about 80 bucks.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

classic auto air makes a true bolt in parallel flow condenser. I may try one.