Hey guys,
Where do you find R-12 freon? I've heard of a replacement called FR-12 but not sure if I trust that info.

 

Craigslist, Ebay, etc.. Take the online test and pay for the certification and you can buy it easily enough. I was headed that way and went with the canned duster alternative. One of the cars I converted blew cold air for a couple years, the other leaked down in a couple weeks. Glad I didn't go R12, or I'd have wasted one charge. Nice thing about the duster is it's cheap, no licensing or paperwork involved, if you missed a leak, it's no big deal.

 

Thanks Drew. What's the canned duster alternative? I just got the car so not sure if it has leaks and that's why its not cold or just not used in a long time.

 

Search for HFC-152a or R-152a, or Google "air duster site:thirdgen.org". The long and short is that the compressed air duster you can buy in the electronics section at Walmart is a decent substitute for R12, better than 134A. Plenty of threads on it.

 

Not to hijack the thread or anything.. But did you use the cans off the shelf with the bittering chemical in it?
I plan on putting R152a in my car(when I get around to it) and remember part of my research leading me over at the S10 forums IIRC, where it's mentioned you have to source duster cans without the bittering chemicals added.
Which I did find some, but it's obviously going for a higher price than standard cheap air duster cans.
It makes sense and all, but I was also kind of thinking that the desiccant should in theory be able to soak it up so it can't contaminate anything, since that's the point of having desiccant in the system.
Just curious what you used.

 

I used Duracool as an R12 replacement in an old daily driver. Worked great.

http://www.duracool.com/

 

While I'm sure there are lots of happy Duracool customers, I personally would avoid it. It contains mercaptan, which is a product containing sulfur. It is an added ingredient in propane and Duracool (which is just refined propane). The problem with sulfur in your cooling system is when sulfur meets water it becomes sulfuric acid, which is a highly corrosive chemical. Aluminum is ESPECIALLY susceptible to sulfuric acid, and I have personally experimented with this and watched sulfuric acid completely dissolve aluminum very quickly. It literally bubbles and dissolves in front of you. Almost all the metal in your car a/c system is made out of aluminum. I know Duracool advertises their product does not harm your cooling system. That is partially true, because if your cooling system stays nice and dry inside it probably won't be affected by the minimal amount of sulfur in it. Good luck getting Duracool to accept responsibility for dissolved aluminum years down the road though. The easy reply will be "your system was obviously worn out, look at the holes in your metal fittings and all the pitting on the compressor aluminum".

There is a company called Envirosafe that makes propane based refrigerant with the sulfur removed. I have used them in two cars with very good results. I have tried the air duster before with moderate success, and currently have all my vehicles running good on R134 (except my wife's car that is holding steady with the Envirosafe).

 

Thanks Aaron,
I was just looking at the Enviro-Safe stuff. I see it used to replace R134a but has a can of oil charge 3 with it. I have R-12 now so I can use the Enviro-Safe with the Oil charge and it won't damage the aluminum?

 

Correct.

 

Ok, thanks. I've never charged an A/C system before. Any tricks to it?

 

The cheap stuff in the bulk pack off the shelf. No issues that I'm aware of. Granted I haven't torn the system back down to see how it may have been effected. For the most part, I reused the existing components of the system, so I only had O-rings, oil, a dryer, and time invested in the project. I might hesitate a bit if I were replacing the compressor, hoses, etc. As it were, I had nothing to lose from trying it.

 

Methyl mercaptan for you non-technical people out there, which contains SULFUR (or if you're a 700-yr-old medieval alchemist, like me, you might call it "sulphur" but never "sulfer"), is the compound they add in TINY amounts to natural gas, to make it smell like it does. A VERY SMALL amount of it goes A LONG way. Natural gas (methane) is odorless and therefore if it leeeeeks no one will know it, therefore they add the odor creating compound, so that it's OBVIOUS when it's around. Which incidentally, it's found in mammal urine, its original source.

R-12 has been illegal to manufacture for quite some years now. Whatever you find, when you use it, it's GONE. Whatever of it you find is basically some forgotten stash that's been in the back corner of somebody's long-gone-out-of-business warehouse. Not what I'd stake my future, or my car's future either, on the availability of. Not the sort of thing that, even if you find it "on ebay", there's ANY guarantee that any more will be there tomorrow. Because once they clean out old dead grandpa's C-store back room, it's GONE FOREVER. No more will EVER appear to replenish it.

There are no "tricks" that I know of to charging an AC system. Not any more than there are "tricks" to putting a can of oil in your motor. It's A CAR. Nothing about it is anything remotely resembling rocket surgery. There's like A BILLION of em in the world, and some UNBELIEVABLY simple-minded people in some unbelievably 3rd world places can keep em working. Surely a fully entitled American such as you, can handle it.

I would not recommend using R-152 in your AC. Not because it doesn't work; not because there's some kind of problem with it; not because … NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. The problem is, at some point, it also will become illegal, because it has the same effect on the world at large as R-12 does. And while we all like to talk real big about how we are hobbyists and it's our "right" to do whatever we see fit because it's a "free country" and all that, and we want to be able to release whatever foul things into the world at large and let everyone on the planet enjoy (suffer) the consequences, the fact of the matter is, it's no more "right" to do that, than it is to drain your oil out of your engine and reach over your fence and pour it into your neighbor's yard. It comes down to, you either clean up your own mess behind yourself, or you don't make it in the first place; and NOT using R-12 falls into the not making a mess category.

EFFFF R-12. Convert to R-134A. Of course. FIX THE GODDAMN LEEEEEEKS first, so you don't have to keep putting it in.

 

Hey Sofa,

Why so quick to judge who is technical and who isn't? And why the cussing? Think it makes you sound smarter and more technical? I get it. Ignorance is bliss and your kingdom loves to live in it.

 

Who is "judging"? Who is "ignorant"?

How can I help you?

Is there a problem with the FACTS I pointed out? If so, please let me know. Not including of course, "I feel offended because I didn't pay attention in school and I hate it that you did".

Did you FIX YOUR LEEEEEKS so you don't have to keep adding cold juice so much?

 

Fixing the leaks is fine and dandy, and the ultimate goal. Unfortunately there's trial and error involved. All the new O-rings, hoses, etc in the world don't mean a thing when the shaft seal on the compressor leaks, or their is a pinhole in the condenser. I don't see the issue with charging the system with canned duster. They sell the stuff on the end cap at Walmart in three packs so housewives can move the dust around the room, and Youtube hucksters can demonstrate freezing hail dents out of used cars. The can and a half I release into the atmosphere over a couple years is no worse than dumping the same quantity of 134A, and the air duster actually blows cold and doesn't make the compressor grind and whine like a Ford power steering pump. Don't even care if I'm wrong, my air blows cold.

 

R-12 is better at cooling than R134a, I'd rather use it than R134a. The world will kill us long before we kill it.

 

R134A is worse for the environment than R152a. R152a has been substituted in many applications. It is more efficient than R134a and has a pressure/temperature curve similar to R12. In a R134a system R152a has noticeably better performance. Put in a modern condenser design, upgrade to 4th gen fans, and install a Red Ford Orifice tube. You will freeze your ******* off with R152a at that point.

I cleaned my keyboard with R152a this morning.