This thread is a continuation of my 454 engine swap thread.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...-454-swap.html

I was running a BG 750 speed demon and now I've got all the parts to convert to an accel thruster DFI system.

I am using the accel 77020P system with a 1200 cfm accel throttle body, edelbrock 454-O EFI intake ,Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator, walbro 255 lph pump, GM electric advance distributor, MSD digital 6AL, Blaster 3 coil, single wide band 02 kit.

The motor is a 1978 454 motorhome engine. All stock heads/internals. I've installed hooker super comp engine swap headers and dual 40 series flowmasters.

 

I worked on her some more over the last day. I put the fuel lines together and leak checked the system, setup the msd digital 6AL-2, put the thermostat and housing on, installed the ect sensor and cooling fan switch, laid out the DFI harness, and hooked up my msd knock detection setup.

I'm hoping to get it fired up tommorow. Lemme know if there is anything I should be looking out for. Thanks.

 

Looks pretty darn good! Hopefully you won't mind a few suggestions that I've learned over time w/my setup.

Fuel rails - I would strongly suggest that you do a "Y" to the front of the rails with your "inbound" fuel, then an out to a regulator that has two in ports and one out port (taking the place of the Y up front). I know it's more plumbing, but you're going to have fuel starvation issues and possible air bubble issues on that rail with the plug in it. There are going to be other issues, such as fuel rail hammer and similar. And you're going to have really weird cyl to cyl mix issues (when you check your plugs).

Ignition - I would strongly suggest going with the Accel spark box over the 6-AL (I sold my original and spare not too long ago myself) along with Accel's coil. I actually noticed quite a bit more consistent power on the dyno and an overall gain of 5hp and 8 ft lbs of torque, but more importantly, it was across the RPM range from the dyno's 3000-6200 rpm range.

Distributor - I'm sure it was to save money, but I would suggest going with the Dual Sync, if for no other reason than to get to use sequential fuel injection.

Just my thoughts. Let me know if you have any questions. Can't wait for you to get it running hard!

 

That doesn't sound too difficult. I have plenty of fittings rolling around. What is "fuel rail hammer"?

Really? I haven't ever heard of anyone using accels ignition box so this is new to me. Every setup I've ever seen used an MSD box. Also mine is the digital 6-AL2. Don't know if that makes a difference.

Yeah I intend to get the dual sync setup in the next month. I had two of these distributors on hand so this was just to get the setup running. All the parts required to make this stuff work is pretty expensive so I'm doing a little at a time.

Thanks for the inputs! This DFI stuff is new to me.

 

Fuel Rail Knock - It's when you're running a "dead headed system" and you're at WOT and the injector opens for a long time and then slams shut. Because you're dead headed, it "pounds" back a resonant wave through the fuel rail. Over time, it can destroy those $300 injectors you installed!

6AL2 - We tried both on the dyno, the Accel and the MSD. Having been a fan of MSD for ages, I was surprised. Then when I went to the Accel EMIC course (for me personally, because I race) I found out that there is a huge difference because of some of the shortcuts MSD took to get the price down. Like I said, I'll take the "free" hp and torque I got across the board with the Accel units.

Agree on the price. Look for Herzog's Go Fast Goodies on eBay. I've bought stuff from him in the past and he's quick-shipping and great on price. Plus, you can call him and order *exactly* what you want whenever you want, w/o waiting. Great guy.

If you show me your AFR chart, I can make some suggestions there as well.

 

Ok I will definately re-route my fuel lines on the rail then. Could I just run a 6AN line from the front of the passenger side rail into the regulator?

I hate to get rid of that expensive digiatal 6 box but I'll look into it after I get the sequential distributor and harness.

I haven't begun tuning the car yet. I still need to set the time and install the thermostat/housing. I have a friend welding the wbo2 sensor bung into a slip on reducer so I don't have an 02 sensor setup on it either yet.

Thanks again for your help.

 

Actually, a lot of GM cars are set up like this, with dead-headed rails. The two big problems in this setup would be fuel drainback after shutdown, and purging. If the fuel pump lets teh rail go dry, and there is no way to purge, then he is going to have a hard time getting the air out of each side.

I was going to do the same, but the walbro I have lets all the fuel run back down to the tank. Whenever go to I start the car, the rails are always completely dry.

An alternate, and slightly easier way to do it is to run the fuel inlet to the first rail, loop at the back to the second rail, and then off of the second rail, feed the return into the regulator back to the tank. This requires a two way (or two way capable) regulator. Its the same ammount of plumbing he has currently.

 

That's how I used to have mine. In on Dr. rear rail (-8), connect the two front rails (-8) and then regulator (-8) with the regulator return line (-6) on the pass side rear. While it works better than his current setup, I like to do things once, right. And it's really likley only a couple more fittings.

 

Ok so what I'll do is put a T fitting in between the two rails in the back and feed the system from there, run a line from the front of the pass side rail into the regulator and return from the regulator. This way I don't have to move the regulator and the system isn't dead headed any more. Does this sound suitable to you guys?

 

So the drawing is perfect. I would recommend a Y rather than a T (for fuel pressure consistency) but a T will work in a pinch. T should be at the "front" of the motor, and you have the rest drawn correctly.

 

Keep in mind that if you have a two way capable regulator, you can also do a series loop. This will save some plumbing, but work in the same fasion. Just another option to consider. Unless your running a top fuel dragster, there should be no pressure drop issues with using the same size line throughout.

 

I've never heard of a "two way" regulator. Only return and non-return. Can you elaborate on that type? Thanks.

I am using an aeromotive regulator http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13301/

 

I think what he means is that you have two inlets in your regulator and one outlet. Just my guess.

 

Ok I tore back into the plumbing on the fuel system today and got it done. Since I don't have the stuff to make hard lines I had to think on it for a while to keep the fuel feed lines from hanging over any moving parts or heat sources. Do any of you guys know how to convert from PSIA to IN HG? I'm used to inches of manifold vacuum. If I'm doing the math right -8.7 comes out to 17.7 inches at idle?

 

Does the Thruster do data logging? In there, if so, pick MAP KPa (not MAP %) and see what you get there. I have no idea how to do the conversion. I hate that they have that "minus" number on the main screen, yet you tune almost everything in KPa. WHy the difference?

 

Oh, or just look at the base fuel map. It'll show KPa on there as well.

 

Ok I FINALLY figured out my clutch problem saturday and got the camaro rolling again. Turns out the flywheel I had was cut too many times and the sprung hub was dragging on the flywheel bolts. also the 4AN hose I was using was too large and was causing pressure loss.

I installed an accel dual sync distributor and a set of moroso ultra 40 race wires.

I'm gonna get the mufflers put on friday. Wooo!

I'll post some pictures and a video of the setup tomorrow.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG-prDfoYCM

 

 

WOOO its finally coming together! muahahahahahaha!!!!

 

Hope I can make one more suggestion - that small air cleaner is killing your HP/Torque. Your engine will fight to pull enough air thru a small round like that one. Get yourself a drop-base, then a 3" tall x 14" round element and a K&N (or off-brand) air cleaner "lid" (where the lid is also a filter). Suggestion for the drop-base part is I went to: http://www.ramairbox.com/
And just ordered a 3" drop.

 

I would if my setup wasn't so tall that the filter won't clear the hood. I've been running that summit blower scoop for a while. Maybe If I can get a 4 inch cowl hood then it would work. I gotta get mufflers on it and some tires first.

 

How's the tuning going?

I'm running Accel's Thruster on my setup as well and I really like it.

 

I'm getting the mufflers put on friday. I've got slip on reducers so I can put them on and tune in the driveway. I wish I had access to a chassis dyno. I recently discovered the interpolation function. That helped alot. It's really easy and runs super smooth. I love it. Should have done this on my tpi 383 4 years ago.

The gas mileage is way beyond what I expected out of an old 8.5:1 454, but I guess sequential fuel injection, .63 overdrive and 2.73 gears really help.

 

consider this? stands about 2.25 inch (+ or -)

 

Where did you get it? Also thats a c4 vette isnt it.

 

ebay. A Spectre product. I believe available through Summit/Jegs as well.

Yes a C4. 1984.

 

Hi, my name is Keith and I'm looking at changing my motor in my 88 Irocz from the stock 350 tuned port to a carberated 454. I noticed you seem to know what your doing with these types of motor swap and would like some advise as to what all I will need to look at doing to my camaro to complete this task. I've been told that a 454 will bolt staight up to the 700r tranny and also work with the motor mounts I'm not sure that the front shocks will hold though and woundered if their is anything else I need to know as well.

 

--All you need is an adjustable return type fuel pressure regulator http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13301/ , two tpi to 6AN fuel fittings http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220009/ , either dorman exhaust manifolds, hooker engine swap headers http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HOK-2226HKR/ or the patriot headers booboosean used. I think his thread is stickied. I recommend either the hookers or the patriot headers. I used the dorman manifolds to start with and it was a big PITA getting the pipes on them. There are cheaper regulators out there but this one will do EFI or carb. You just have to swap the spring. You will also need some 6AN hose, 2 3/8 npt plugs, 3 3/8npt-6AN fittings and some 6AN hose ends. Thats the minimum. I would buy two or three times as much hose and fittings I needed just in case. I learned this the hard way.

--You can use the 350 motor mounts, and the engine will bolt up to the 700R4 no problem. The only difference is the 454 is external balance and the 350 is neutral balance. If you didnt get a flexplate with your 454 you will need one. It will need to be exteranally balanced and 153 tooth. Whether its a one or two peice rear main seal depends on the year of your 454. They started Putting one peice rear main seals on small blocks in 1988. I don't know when they started on the big blocks. You'll have to look at the 454 and see if its a one peice or two peice.

--As far as accessory drive and other stuff that is up to you and what you want on the engine. I did not change the sway bays shocks or springs and my engine is completely cast iron except for the headers and intake. You can drive it this way however, it understeers and tries to plow during hard cornering, and will bottom out if you hit a hard bump. I am switching to an all aluminum engine soon so I'm not going to change this. I'll just deal with it for now.

-- Lemme know what else you need help with.