I'm planning switching from MAF to a MAP system.

1. Is there any reson NOT to use the 808 code instead of doing the whole -730ECM swap?

2. What are the pro/cons. of the systems?

3. The -730 uses a 32k.bin and the 808 only 16k.bin why? does the -730ECM have more options?

4. Is the -730ECM easier to tune?

5. Online help? is it availible for both systems? I know the -730ECM swap has been done by several people here so it wont be a problem but the 808code?

6. OR should I go for the 749ecm swap direct from my -165?

Thanks/N.

 

1) As I recall the 808 is the slow ALDL, and the data stream is lacking.
2) Which Systems?
3) Much more refined, difference in no EPA to having to please the EPA
4) Same either way, IMO
5) More guys have worked with the 730 then 808s.
6) If your going boosted then just go 749

 

OK... After I get my car running with my new set up I will go for 730ecm swap. I found MAP,ECM today so all I need is a memcal and maybe a knock sensor.

Where can I find a memcal for the 730ecm and what bin should I start with. Mods are in sign.

/N.

 

If you want to tune it properly, you must do it it in real time, especially if you are adding blower.
The 808 converted to realtime has same speed as 165 and 082
You will never get the best results hacking no matter which ecm you go for.
In Real Time you can see exactly what your ecm sees your o2 sensors putting out and this is what your ecm needs. Cut that link and its all guesswork, and then ecm has to try and correct, which all has big effect on idle etc, also you can follow all transients.
Comparing a Real Time tuned car to a hacked one is like comparing stock factory efi car to carburetted one.
Ask Tomcat what real time software he uses, and where he gets all his info from in his DIY map conversion posting.
I cant put the software name here, because it will get edited.
Hooter

 

Baloney, pure and simple.

You can data log and sit down and analyse what goes on, and be much further ahead then the on-the-fly eye candy guys do.

The on the fly routines, make it too tempting to go right past the finer points and miss IMPORTANT trends.

Tuning does take time, and the ability to analyse what the engine is telling you. Once you actually understand tuning, all the software is just tools. Some tools only have an offering of being eye candy, and eye candy is expensive, and doesn't enable you to do anything better then even using a Hex editor.

And the more you rely on software, the more helpless you are when support fails. Or hardware available only from a single vendor. Sticking with over the counter goods, means instant availability, all the time. Or in the worst of worse cases, borrowing something.

Give me an eeprom, a decent hac, and I'll match anything anyone does with any $$$$$ *system*. For the money some of these systems charge, the average guy can buy a WB, and then really be onto something.

Of course this is all just in my opinion, based on decades of tuning, and years of just working on proms. JUST.

And with the next generation of developement, the aftermarkets will just be left in the dust of the DIY'ers. ie running custom code in an oem ecm.

BTW, real time is just an imaginary thing in the world of 3rd gen engine management. The code runs in loops, so there is ALWAYS some lag. And don't forget the transportation delays for the O2.

One thing about buzz words, is that so often they are really meaningless.

 

Most of what you say is correct, but as yet I still havent seen diagnostic software that cuts it, compared to the "k" word.
To sit back in the comfort of your chair and pass judgement on something you havent seen/tried out is wonderful........
Also we have many codes not found in factory software which gives huge advantages in tuning, " without missing the finer points", using huge cams like Crane 288 and 304.
How can you see your Transient Bypass MAP so that you can adjust your Transient Bypass Steps and cut in points to prevent stalling with cams like these without being in realtime???
Also we have added things like Buick and Pontiac turbo stuff using 2 bar and 3 bar logic and MAP sensors to suit. Try tuning that in Hex........
I'm not having a go at you. You sound very talented and I appreciate that and respect it.
I write this because it may interest you, and mean no offense.
In 14 years of realtime ( and RT GEN 3 I may add ) we have had much criticism, and as usual, by the unintiated, but for those that have tried it, and I am talking experts here, they have been very pleasantly surprised.
I would be interested in email communication with you Grumpy about some possibilties.
Cheers Hooter

 

Most of what I said?.
Please show me where I errored.
Maybe you think you need to see certain things is real time, but in talking with some actual OEM calibration guys, I happen to have seen some software that you probably haven't even thought about doing yet. AND, these folks still data log, and then sit down to interupt what they're looking at. Of course they only have budgets in the 10s of millions of dollars (US).

I have not criticised you or your product, I've just corrected your overstatement of what you consider the advantages are.

Ya, well, I've never claimed to be an expert.
Experts designed spacecraft that used kilometers, when it was supposed to be miles. Judging by the number of recalls for silly things, It seems like alot of Experts leave alot to be desired on the practical end of things.

It will be interesting when the next step is taken in DIY-PROM. There are folks that are working on doing code that assembles, and once they get the routines defined, then they'll be able to cut and paste code together to run like they want to. ie, I've done it, so it's just a matter of time while others catch up.

One thing about all my commentary, it's not motivated by wanting, or needing to make a profit.

 

Grumpy, again mostly what you say is right, but you make it sound like our stuff wont do all these things.
Ours has all the datalogging and yes we stop and check out data on the way too, but most of it you do on the way.
It seems to be a very touchy subject. Its not a competition, and yes we are enthusiasts too, and arent driven by profit, but we need to recooperate some of our 14 years of full time work.
Our stuff is completely rewritten and has many features the factory stuff doesnt have.
We completely disassemble hardware and software, and yes, in a way you can cut and paste different code. We certainly add new bits from new later programs to older style ecm's such as the 165.
For the 165 we have std analog maf program, then we have a AFM (maf) program, then we have a MAP program, and then 2 bar program.
For the 730, we have std (factory like) program, then we have hi performance program similar to our Street Pro 3, and then we have 2 bar.
Same for 278 LT1.
If you have one of these and are interested, I could arrange for you to try out and test and critisize.
We're not worried about anyone copying our products, as it will take them huge amounts of time, and you cant live on love.....
Cheers Hooter