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Upper spark and upper VE tables RPM

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Old 04-17-2003, 09:16 AM
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Upper spark and upper VE tables RPM
I am just starting to modify the bin for my car and noticed the upper spark and upper VE tables only go up to 5600 RPM (1227730 ECU using AXCN bin for base) but I want to run the engine to atleast 6000 RPM....

So what will happen when the computer gets to the end of those tables? Is there a way to extend the tables? So far I am only using GMECM Edit.
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Old 04-17-2003, 09:41 AM
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Re: Upper spark and upper VE tables RPM
Originally posted by kevosiroc
I am just starting to modify the bin for my car and noticed the upper spark and upper VE tables only go up to 5600 RPM (1227730 ECU using AXCN bin for base) but I want to run the engine to atleast 6000 RPM....

So what will happen when the computer gets to the end of those tables? Is there a way to extend the tables? So far I am only using GMECM Edit.
Can't do it. The engine will just shut down once you hit that RPM level (5600). You'll need to go carb or something. . .


Actually the ECM will just use the last row (5600 RPM) of each of those tables. The SA table will probably be flat anyway once you hit 3200-3800 RPM or so.

How much the VE changes between 5600 and 6000 will define that area of the resultant AFR. May not even matter. If it does need to be changed a simple code patch will extend the high speed VE table to 6400 RPM.

RBob.
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Old 04-17-2003, 10:18 AM
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Re: Re: Upper spark and upper VE tables RPM
Originally posted by RBob
The SA table will probably be flat anyway once you hit 3200-3800 RPM or so.
While you MAY find a little extra power by increasing the spark advance a few degrees past 3,800 rpm to the point of peak HP, the difference will be negligible (unless you are building something quite radical with peak TQ around 5,600 rpm and peak HP around 7,000 rpm). But for the typcial street engine, you probably won't notice anything past 3,800 rpm as RBob said.
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Old 04-17-2003, 04:36 PM
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(Note: due to not being able to attach a zip file I am unable to distribute the patch file to extend the VE tables to 6400 RPM.

RBob.)
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Old 04-17-2003, 04:38 PM
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RBob,

Can you email me the patch file? Also, what programs and how can I make use/install it?
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Old 04-17-2003, 05:20 PM
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Re: Re: Upper spark and upper VE tables RPM
Originally posted by RBob
Can't do it. The engine will just shut down once you hit that RPM level (5600). You'll need to go carb or something. . .

Yep,
I went and got a old black turbo car that I just spin to 5K RPM.
Lazy ol thing.


Reply given in the same line of humor as the original posting.
It's all Acranum Humor...........
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Old 04-17-2003, 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by kevosiroc
RBob,

Can you email me the patch file? Also, what programs and how can I make use/install it?
I am working to get zip's attachable, hopefully it will work out.

There is a sticky at the top of this list called 'patch method demo'. The patch will be released in the format described in that post. You'll only need to read the first couple of posts to understand how to apply it. Download the zip on the first post. It will have the S19_PAT utility included.

Because the VE table is now larger I moved it to a new location within the bin. If using a bin editor (such as WinBin or PromEdit) this will need to be taken into account.

If you'd like to cut and paste and give it a go here is the source:

Code:
; ----------------------------------------------------------
; ----------------------------------------------------------
;
; AXCN_VE.ASM 
; 
; This patch is for mask 8Dh, AXCN
;
; It includes:
; 
; 	Extend FL2 VE table, to 6400 RPM.
; 
;
; Copyright RBob 2003 All Rights Reserved
;
; v1.00 rr	
; 
; ----------------------------------------------------------

		OPT	l
		OPT	c



;*----------------------------------------------------
; 
; FL2 VE table
; 
;*----------------------------------------------------

	ORG	$9000

NewVe2	FCB	0 	; Min RPM Val
	FCB	0 	; Min Load, (kpa) Value
	FCB	9 	; Number of BP'S per RPM


; MAP	     20   30   40   50   60   70   80   90  100

	FCB 141, 161, 174, 182, 186, 190, 192, 196, 202 ; 1600
	FCB 146, 166, 179, 185, 190, 195, 197, 201, 204 ; 2000
	FCB 159, 180, 191, 194, 198, 202, 204, 208, 212 ; 2400
	FCB 181, 202, 209, 211, 214, 220, 222, 227, 229 ; 2800
	FCB 189, 209, 214, 216, 222, 223, 225, 232, 238 ; 3200
	FCB 187, 207, 213, 217, 220, 225, 228, 232, 239 ; 3600
	FCB 180, 196, 201, 211, 220, 222, 225, 232, 236 ; 4000
	FCB 167, 181, 192, 198, 201, 208, 213, 216, 219 ; 4400
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 4800
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 5200
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 5600
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 6000
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 6400

;*----------------------------------------------------
; 
; Tap into current code
; 
;*----------------------------------------------------

	ORG	$CBE9

	LDX	#NewVe2		; load new table address


	ORG	$CBEF		; bra around max limit check

	BRA	$CC08


; ----------------------------------------------------------
; 
; End of Patch
; 
; ----------------------------------------------------------

; eof ;
I don't have the means to fully test it so please let us know how it works out.

The S19_PAT command line would be:

s19_pat axcn_ve.s19 0x8000 File2Patch.bin

RBob.
Last edited by RBob; 04-17-2003 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 09-01-2003, 10:00 PM
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Would this patch work for the AUJP.bin?

I tried it by copying the patch to a text file then renaming it ve.asm then from a command prompt typed A:\ as11 ve.asm and it gave me an Ve.s19 file back. Then typed A:\ s19_pat ve.s19 0x8000 aujp.bin and it came back and said Done.

Opened the bin in TC and the table still went to only 5600. What did I miss? Or will it just not work on the AUJP.bin?
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Old 09-02-2003, 04:02 PM
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TC also limits to 5600 (stock tables) You need to edit your TDF for the new location and table size.

HTH

John
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Old 09-02-2003, 05:29 PM
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Swapmaster, besides editing your TDF as 32V_DOHC posted. . . the above patch will NOT work on AUJP. Delete the bin you patched as it is now corrupt.

However, the following is the same patch with the correct code locations for AUJP. The actual code in the EPROM is different between AXCN & AUJP. Hence the need to change the patch-into addresses (check the last area of the patch labeled 'Tap into current code', that is the area I changed).

Here is the patch for AUJP. Assemble & apply it to a fresh bin the same as you did with the previous (AXCN) patch.

Code:
; ----------------------------------------------------------
; ----------------------------------------------------------
;
; AUJP_VE.ASM 
; 
; This patch is for mask 8Dh, AUJP
;
; It includes:
; 
; 	Extend FL2 VE table, to 6400 RPM.
; 
;
; Copyright RBob 2003 All Rights Reserved
;
; v1.00 rr	
; 
; ----------------------------------------------------------

		OPT	l
		OPT	c

;*----------------------------------------------------
; 
; FL2 VE table
; 
;*----------------------------------------------------

	ORG	$9000

NewVe2	FCB	0 	; Min RPM Val
	FCB	0 	; Min Load, (kpa) Value
	FCB	9 	; Number of BP'S per RPM


; MAP	     20   30   40   50   60   70   80   90  100

	FCB 141, 161, 174, 182, 186, 190, 192, 196, 202 ; 1600
	FCB 146, 166, 179, 185, 190, 195, 197, 201, 204 ; 2000
	FCB 159, 180, 191, 194, 198, 202, 204, 208, 212 ; 2400
	FCB 181, 202, 209, 211, 214, 220, 222, 227, 229 ; 2800
	FCB 189, 209, 214, 216, 222, 223, 225, 232, 238 ; 3200
	FCB 187, 207, 213, 217, 220, 225, 228, 232, 239 ; 3600
	FCB 180, 196, 201, 211, 220, 222, 225, 232, 236 ; 4000
	FCB 167, 181, 192, 198, 201, 208, 213, 216, 219 ; 4400
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 4800
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 5200
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 5600
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 6000
	FCB 155, 168, 180, 186, 192, 200, 202, 204, 206 ; 6400

;*----------------------------------------------------
; 
; Tap into current code
; 
;*----------------------------------------------------

	ORG	$CBF1

	LDX	#NewVe2		; load new table address


	ORG	$CBF7		; bra around max limit check

	BRA	$CC10


; ----------------------------------------------------------
; 
; End of Patch
; 
; ----------------------------------------------------------

; eof ;
RBob.
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Old 09-02-2003, 08:16 PM
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Thank you very much.

In the S19_pat command line of s19_pat axcn_ve.s19 0x8000 File2Patch.bin where 0x8000 is the memory location, the 0x8000 needs to be changed to 0x10000 ?

Also will the table location need to be changed in Tuner Cat so it can find it? This may be over my head, and about to get me in trouble.
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Old 09-02-2003, 09:01 PM
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Ok, I just downloaded the CATS Tuner File Editor and I don't think it's anything a person like me should be messing with. Editing a bin with todays software for a novice is one thing but editing the editor itself is a whole new ball game. I am going to have to study this one for a while before I go any further. I will save the patch and code info for a latter date, much later I imagine.

Do you think if I send the patched bin to CATS that they would modify the TDF for me? Sorry just thinking out loud.

I will keep the info for a later date.

Thanks anyway guys.
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Old 09-03-2003, 06:43 AM
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Originally posted by Swapmaster
Ok, I just downloaded the CATS Tuner File Editor and I don't think it's anything a person like me should be messing with. Editing a bin with todays software for a novice is one thing but editing the editor itself is a whole new ball game. I am going to have to study this one for a while before I go any further. I will save the patch and code info for a latter date, much later I imagine.

Do you think if I send the patched bin to CATS that they would modify the TDF for me? Sorry just thinking out loud.

I will keep the info for a later date.

Thanks anyway guys.
If you go to Tunercat to change your TDF they will need to see the patch. That will give them the info they need (table address, size. . .).

On the s19_pat command line leave the 0x8000 as is. It is the physical offset of the EPROM address once placed into the ECM. It is required for the patch utility to properly offset the patch into the bin.

You can always try to edit your TDF. Just make a copy first then play. You will need to change the address of the table and make it two rows larger.

RBob.
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Old 09-03-2003, 06:48 AM
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Ok, I will give it a shot in a few days.

Thanks
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Old 01-28-2004, 01:39 AM
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Bringing it back up...

Forgive me for being behind the curve a bit. Im also interested in expanding the VE and timing tables with my ecm. Not to 6000+, but at least past the 3200 and 3600 limits currently imposed. One BIG question in my mind is what about the resolution out there? It looks like that past around 3000 rpm or so the resolution of the ecms DRP counter really starts to suffer. Is the loss of resolution in rpms something to be concerned about? Or does the fact that things start getting pretty linear out there mean that it wont matter that much?
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:21 PM
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Rrob -Could you upload the patch to Craig's file site?

I assume--- we can patch this code to the bin but we still need the editor to make the actual VE ajustments.

Dennis
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Old 01-28-2004, 10:08 PM
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I got some data so I could actually see what the saved DRP's look like. Its obviously a period of some sort but at least now I can see what it looks like. The question I had was a bit more on the theory end of things. Im jsut curious what will happen when I actually try to resolve around 5-5.5K or so. Will it matter much? Or should I just disregard it and go ahead with modifying the VE/spark tables to suite the engines power band? From the graph of the DRP counter, its output starts to flatten out and the difference between values becomes less and less. The top one is a curve fitted to teh actual data, DRP counts to RPM.
Attached Thumbnails Upper spark and upper VE tables RPM-drpcnt.jpg  
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:11 AM
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My bin is about 6 years old. I do not remember what it originated from. camaro,vette, Manual,auto. -It is a 7730/7727

I would like to patch the extended tables to my bin and then create the editor via tunerpro to make the adjustments. (Really once my bin is patched I should only have to edit the existing TDF/ECU upper VE table to 6400. Not create a whole new table.--Am I correct on this?
Thanks
Dennis
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