Can I just adust the PE AFR VS RPM table and main fuel table #2
and go for best ET's as an alternative to investing in or making a WB02 sensor? I know this is trial and error and won't be exact, but is this the best alternative? I saw a good article from traxion on tuning part throttle but I have only seen bits and pieces on tuning for WOT. If there is a thread I have missed on WOT tuning please let me know.
Any help on the WB02 sensor VS trial just going for best ET's would be a big help for me.
Thanks...................bob
Using a 8746 ecm TBI

 

Sure, there alot of people that tune for ET, people have tuned carbs by that method sine the Ice Age. It is a proven method but involves alot of risk compared to fully exploiting what is available to the modern performance tuner.

Most folks that will answer you on this board strive very hard for perfection and wouldnt even think of tuning WOT without a WB.

Dont look at it like just another expense, look at it as the cheapest insurance you can buy for a race motor , not alot of agencies offering that type of policy these days!

 

I just go off O2 sensor data logging, I shoot for about 850mv, if it goes above 940mv my motor starts to backfire at high rpms.

 

Answer to your question is yes, you do. No if you live right next to a 1/4 mile track and can get a day at least to test back to back runs with a romulator. If that isn't you then again, yes, you need a wideband.
The sensor won't tell you if you're faster at 12.4 or 13.0 but it will tell you which AFR you are at! A good example is running datalog with wideband and getting an AFR of 10:1 getting richer as engine speed increases, in this case you can OBVIOUSLY lean out your fuel trim and gain mph. It'll save you time and money so it's a no brainer. If you are serious about running peak you need it, else you don't, it's that simple.
If you can afford it you need it. If your running a pretty expensive engine and plan on keeping GM electronics, just get one. Only other tip is to stay away from Techedge.

 

If your tuning for max performance, then the only way to measure it is by time. The tricky part is keeping the engine together, and that means knowing what's going on inside the engine.

Reading plugs, EGTs, and AFRs are all components of knowing what the engine is actually doing.

A WB, data logging, and measuring performance, go hand in hand.
You need to measure ETs to see what your engine likes, and then finding best performance see what your AFR is. Then with the datalogging you can fill in the holes with the AFR by looking for rich and lean spots and then tayloring the tune in those areas.

A WB lets you see what changes do what to the AFR. If you see that some changes make no difference, then you can look get to cause and effect, and figure out what's wrong, rather then guessing about things.

 

For my money a Gtech, and simple data logging of the O2 is all you need..

Good to see you back grumpy!

 

EXACTLY! Who cares whether it is running 12.0:1, 12.4:1, 12.8:1 or 13.0:1. It's the the combo that produces the quickest ET that counts (and always has). The WB is just a great too to assist you (as mentioned before) but it's NOT mandatory.

As Bruce mentioned, there are other methods to use to ensure that you are not coming up with a combo that will have a "short bright life" (unless you like rebuilding your motor frequently).

 

I don't trust the Gtech or the narrow band o2 sensor. For a little more than you paid for the Gtech you could have a wideband and get your car so near perfect that it would only take you a few runs at the track to complete a great tune.

 

Agreed, one of the best bang Vs buck deals out there.

 

I like the track too, but I'm 100 miles from the nearest track. Its sucks that the town I live in (80,000 people), doesn't have a track. Gtech is the only way for me to get times. Also I know a bout 3 guys from my home town that have gtechs, and that race. They all made a few runs at the track, with the gtech runing at the same time, I've never heard of it being more than 0.1s out, and theve got 10s cars and 14s cars.

 

Thanks you guys....... I have been doing the Et approach with my g-tech but it is hard on the motor and drive train, and dangerous on public roads.
Plus, getting consistent atmospheric conditions is tough. Its taken a lot of time and I have not improved my ET's significantly. I mostly have stumbled on stuff through trial and error. Bottom line, I really don't know where I am except so far I have been conservative on spark and fuel so I don't REALLY screw things up.

I will check out a WB sensor, if anyone has suggestions as to the best for the money, please let me know. The LM-1 looked good when I last checked them out and I need to read more on what the methodology is for tuning with a WB.

Also, Other than a scan tool with a very limited capture feature I don't have any " datalogging" capacity. I wll do a search on this but if anyone has suggestions on what the best method is to datalog please let me know.

I got about40 chips under my belt, a lot of notes in a note book and a lot of dead ends. Seems like most of my time has been wasted so far on improving ET's. The car is VERY drivable though, solid as a rock in that respect.

Glad to see Grumpy back and to hear from jprevost..............bob

 

Without a doubt you should get a cheap laptop of ebay, slow pentium for like $50. Then just use shareware programs.