FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

bttt,

count me in for one to turn my 415sb

Craig Moates

There are a few spare 10-bit A/D converters onboard. I'd thought about just that, ability to log WB, RPM, TPS, etc. GMs aren't the only guys out there I suppose.

You're right, the GMECM code is easily hacked open for an extra analog input. That's why I shied away from it for the initial version. Good thought though. I'll keep it warm

lykan

Progress report How long till its ready!!


BTW Ordered the adapter zif socket chips etc.. to start to burn. Thanks Craig, for shipping so fast )

Craig Moates

OK, progress report. This is addendum material to the earlier summary up higher in this post:

- 27SF512 programming scrapped, the 12v stuff was just too much of an issue. I think there were issues with RFI (onboard 12v generator). I wrestled with it for some time, but out the window it goes. Only so much time in the day. If I'd spent time on other stuff than this, I'd be further along in other areas! This also frees up a couple of I/O lines

- 29F040 chip programming added. This gives 32-pin support for chip programming. It's all 5v, so no issue as above. That's 512k, or 8 64k banks. This chip can be used for pretty much anything. Hardware in place, firmware half done. Should be set up so you can program whole chip or just individual banks (software selectable). Same on the readback. Should mesh nicely with Mansur's BIN stacker.

- Planned expansion to 4mbit emulation. Adds a little bit to the logic, but not too bad (just 3 more address lines). Saved some complexity by removing the 512 / 12v support, so that helps keep the architecture down. There should be an option to the user (upon purchase, upgradeable) to allow up to 1mbit (basic) or 4mbit (extended) emulation, probably like a $30 premium (stuff's pricey!). In all cases, the programming of the 4mbit chip will be supported though.

- New approach being taken on the EMU databit buffering. This should address any problems (no pun intended) with CE/OE timing.

- Will probably provide for hardwired ALDL Pass-Through option, but simultaneous logging/emulation is still on the books.

My test mule is still down, but I hope to have it up this weekend. That'll help. Just gotta do some tranny refresh & harness refurb. Just got a new high-speed adapter for my O-scope, so that'll also help in tracking down squirrely stuff.

So I've got a few prototypes in hand. Anyone interested in a device that is half-baked? If not, then be patient.

If so, then contact me offline. These things will program 29C256s for sure, and with a little jumper-wiring, they should do 29F040s and maybe give you ALDL stuff. Might even emulate. Kind of a grab-bag special.

Mark's just going crazy with the software. I think you guys are really going to like it!

funstick

criag ill be glad to guinea pig whatever.

poncho@home

I'd be more than willing to test a unit for you. I got a bunch of 256 chips on hand. Let me know

Craig Moates

Update:

- 29F040 programming successful on test unit. Screw those 512s anyhow! Who needs 12v? Micro code complete and working, evolving of course! PC code also well under way. Should support full chip erasing/programming as well as 'bankwise' erasure/programming. Will support segmential (is that a word?) programming down to 64bytes at a time (for you supergeeks).

- Harness back together on my test mule, should be able to hit hard & heavy on the ALDL/EMU stuff tomorrow & this coming week. Might even get the bucket-o-bolts T/A running!

- Next round of prototypes will be based on this coming week's learnings, and will be targeted for arrival/assembly ca. 10/22 or so.

Good riddance...
-Craig

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

ttt,

Hows testing goin? Gona be avalilable in 10days? or so??

Craig Moates

That's just for the next round of prototypes. I'll sell some of them for sure. They will have working 29C256 / 29F040 programming, and at a bare minimum pass-through ALDL adapter mode. Might get the emu working, not sure yet. Got some critical work to do the next day or two here. Then there's the simul-logging. Gotta get that shaken out. Should work fine, just gotta prove it out.

89 Iroc Z

Mangus,
I would love to see a feature in your TunerPro RT software that will auto tune VE tables. For example you set it on auto tune mode and drive and it will automatically calculate new values in your VE tables as needed.

Mangus

The limit on this is the ECU file. I have no way of knowing, programmatically (and generally) which ECU items are the VE (or spark, or MAF) tables.

Even if I could, the axis labels are characters, not numbers. This would make it difficult to know where in the table the engine is currently running.

In other words, lots of things that would make this (nearly) impossible at the moment.

Down the road I'll be writing my own format for bin description files that will take all of this into account, though. Until then, I've got plenty on my plate between emulation and ALDL.

Look for a beta in the coming week or so.

m

89 Iroc Z

I was under the impression it was relatively easy to do, I guess I will have to stick with VE master for the time being.

Looking forward to your beta release…

Mangus

I'm not sure where that impression could have come from.

VE Master makes use of ALDL data logs (in a specific format). In fact, VE Master won't work with a log created by my software either, because it requires the data to be present in a specific format.

Doing it in real-time with existing description formats is a completely different story. How would I correlate the ALDL data with an ECU item? How would I know the boundaries of each table cell in the ECU file?

Open an ECU file in notepad and take a look and let me know if you think of an easy way.

The only way I can think of is to create a new description format that supports containers for each piece of required data. This would also solve many of the shortcomings of the ECU file format (such as a lack of bias values, cell boundaries [F*rd], etc).

I certainly understand the theory behind real-time tuning, and *that* is pretty simple. But doing things programmatically and in a fashion conducive to the structure of existing file formats and/or application skeletons makes it a little more involved than simple theory.

Craig and I will be headed in the direction some day, though. I guess thats really what you're looking for.

Jekyll & Hyde

I STILL VOTE STICKY


Craig,

Three questions:

1) How is the 165 ECM coming along? I haven't read anything in the post except that it wasn't working.

2) If I am using a 165 ECM, will I be able to set the 256 32k chip to only burn the useful area fo the 16k ECMs?

3) My laptop is a new Sony Viao, and doesn't come with a 9-pin port. It has IEEE 1394, parallel, & USB. What are my connection options since you can't use parallel? I was thinking that I could possibly get a USB -> 9-pin Belkin unit at a computer store, but has that been test to work with your prototypes yet?

I would be willing to test the above questions with my car, let me know.

Sarkee

Does that make us Romulans???

If Craig paints a Warbird emblem on them, I'll buy one!

Mangus

I'll leave the first two to Craig, but I'll tackle the third.

Your only option, honestly, is to try to find a Serial/USB converter that is known to work (there is another thread on the boards here somewhere about this). You have no other connection options.

Its hard to support setups like this, though, because they are essentially software controlled (a converter cable requires a piece of software to "translate" things from one protocol (SERIAL) to another (USB). This could cause screwy results in some (many) environments. I can't test these scenarios or converters as I don't have any of the converter units and don't intend on buying any.

As others have done, you can give it a shot. You might get it to work!

Jekyll & Hyde

Yeah, that's what I figured, but I was wondering if it has been tested yet. I would be willing to do some testing to know if it the program would be able to support it, or know if it will not work.

Mangus

beta will be up in a week or so. you are certainly encouraged to download and play with it.

you have to let me know what you figure out, though. =)

Jekyll & Hyde

Will it be on Craig's site?

Also, the scanning part will need to be plugged into the ALDL right? What kind of cable will I need to be using here? I can try the scanning with an AKM cable to see if the USB->9-pin(rs232) convertor will work.

Mangus

I'm sure craig will post a link.

http://tunerpro.markmansur.com/

Yes, you need an AKM or Ruse or similar cable. See other threads on the boards or do a search. Lots of info available on what is needed.

Soon, all you'll need for everything DIY-PROM is the AutoProm. =)

Sarkee

Mark -

I've been using TunerCat for my needs, but this looks interesting.

I notice you have only 3 BINs in your stock. One of the omissions first time tuners make is not getting the latest BIN for their car. GM updated the BINs over the years, and the best way to get the latest & best BIN is to order the MemCal for your particular car. The new MemCal will come with the latest BIN. Some of the changes tuners want to make are already in the new BIN.

Having a GM parts listing for the MemCals would sure help. I have the GM parts manual for the 84-91 Y-body, and there are over 75 different MemCals listed (and that is only up to 91)...

Mangus

I don't want this to veer too far off of AutoProm specific stuff, but to quickly reply:

There are extensive bin libraries out there (diy-efi.org should be back up soon). Same for ECUs.

The concept of "updated bins" is a bit of a strange way of looking at it. DIY-tuning basically means making changes specific to your car to increase performance and/or driveability. This, to me means "keeping your own bin updated". Either way, it is not my intention to make a web site that is a one stop shop for all DIY-EFI informational needs. I simply write software. =)

The only reason the bins that are there now are there is because they are bins that I personally work with! (ANZA is from my own Trans Am).

poncho@home

Is there anyway to compile of repository of the latest bins? Is there anyway to get them from GM?

Mangus

You can generally determine what is newer by looking that the bin code.

Jekyll & Hyde

yay!!!

Craig Moates

1) It's the ECM I'm using, so be assured it will take priority.
2) Yes, that also refers to item #1.
3) I don't see any reason why not. I happen to have a USB-serial converter (kinda fancy one though, hi-speed), and plan to test it out.

bigals87z28

Cool!!! i have a 165 ecm also!

I have some general questions... really for Winaldl. I put it on my big desk top, and I could scan my car fine... no porblems. Now i have this laptop... it wont work? Im thinking wire problem, but I dont smell any burnt resistors or anything that would lead me to belive that. Anyone wana give me a little help on that?

Mangus

Sounds appropriate for a separate post altogether. Lets try to keep this thread relevant to the "thingie" that has now been identified.

Jekyll & Hyde

Thanks for the help Craig.

Do you think that you will be able to keep up with demand? I have seen this post on all of the DIY FI stuff, along with other boards, and clubs, you are going to be one busy man.

VetteMan

Craig,

Please don't forget us little ECM 165 32B folks. I can't wait to buy a package deal where data logger and tunning software come together. Then we can work on the wideband AFR and EGT meter next! Can't we?

Frank

Mangus

TunerPro (the software that AutoProm works with) supports data logging, tuning, and emulation. There will be no reason why you can't make all aspects of TunerPro and AutoProm work with your $32/$32B setup.

You've been heard!

Mark

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

I reposted in the other thread.......... This post by me on this thread can be deleted.

Mangus

trying not to steal space in craig's thread:

answer to both your questions:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=206378

Craig Moates

Update:

New PCB layout submitted, should be in hand with parts for next weekend assembly. Several issues addressed, including:

- Port power for stand-alone ALDL functionality.
- No-switch functionality for software selection of 29C256 or 29F040 chips for programming / reading.
- Major update on power supply array, addition of decoupling caps on each IC, upgrade on power rails, ground plane, etc.
- Update to allow daughterboard of 4mbit SRAM for economical 4mbit emulation support.
- Removal of all 12v circuit, 5v only now.
- Addition of serial circuitry for better pass-through mode and ALDL buffering to AVR.
- Upgraded pinout of header to support 24, 28, 32 pin emu via daughterboard (28 pin default). Updated backpanel layout to allow for more switch access.

This is all going to be done by hand, no chinee-takee-outee. All handmade in the USA like all my stuff, done by me.

To clarify, this is the third prototype version. I try and learn what I can on each revision, but when it starts looking more like a breadboard, then it's time to get a new start.

I'll keep y'all posted. I expect an update on ca. 11/4/03.

See ya,
-Craig

jonesy

hi,
all ill try and keep this short. i wish to get into RT tuning and am not a fly by nighter but am from austrlia, which limits me in ways of tuning sftware. at this stage tuner cat is the only manufacurer of software which supports a ECM manufacured in Australia, he offers a definition file for the '88 holden commondore.
Anyways i wish to create definition files for a good quality tuner software with RT capability, BUT i need the software to be able to create such files.
Im aware that tuner cat, GMPCM, and i think the comonly mentioned tunerpro have this facility. But my question is, has anyone used any of these programes to create definition files, and then run them.
for instance there is no point using a excelent Def file creator to create ECM definition files that will only run in their tuner which is of poor quality.
The three programes mentioned above are all quite good in quality im told (i havnt tested them all) for tuning but no1 has realt mentioned about thier ability to creat Def files.

If any1 has had any experiance with these programes and creating def files even if you are the programer of that particular software can u please reply.
Thanks in advance, and i apologise for my simple and probly incorect use of terms, remeber im not a professional, and fairly new to this.
tahnks
wayne jones

Mangus

that might be appropriate for a separate thread.

GMPCM, Winbin, and TunerPro all support the same definition file format (*.ecu). Create a definition in one and its compatible with all of them.

TunerCat has a different format, but I'm not unconvinced that he doesn't have a Holden definition file.

Do some testing. Try them all. You're in no way limited in software.

Craig Moates

AutoProm Project Status

Updates/Completions:
- New layout arrived, assembled, and partially tested.
- Pass-through ALDL functionality works. Stand-alone ALDL function possible.
- Serial-based linear voltage regulator is being swapped to a low-dropout version so that port power can be explored. Will power ALDL stage separately, and may be adequate for other parts of circuit, we'll see. Parts by weekend.
- Software-based chip selection works fine. No switching needed to go from 29C256 to 29F040 programming.
- 4mbit emu implemented. 4mbit SRAM daughterboard works fine.
- 5v only on board, no crazy 12v or anything else, except at the external power jack ;^)
- Decoupling circuitry implemented throughout. Every IC has one.
- Backpanel layout tightened, can't fit much more back there!
- Bootloader routines firmed up for field updates of firmware.

Still being worked / Deliverables:
- Emulation still not demonstrated. Need to get home early one night this week before the mosquitoes get crazy. Latest mods should address earlier issues at least in majority fashion.
- Need to acquire scope data around addr, data, and OE/CE lines during emu exercises and compare to previous effort and chip-only traces.
- Need to get opportunity window logic firmed up for on-the-fly updates. It's all there already, just need to beat on it some.
- Simultaneous ALDL must be accomplished. Both serials work fine through AVR, but serial going to AVR to/from ALDL is now double-buffered, this should help clean it up. Wasn't framing correctly before. May need to jack with the baud rates / xtal freq / dividers a little.

That's all for the moment. If you have any questions, just throw them in here. It'll be about a week before I come up for air again. Thanksgiving is still the target.

Craig Moates

Updates 11/06/03:

- Static emulation demonstrated as working in 1227165. Fken excited now!
- Traces collected, looks real clean now. Need to probe around on the circuit layout and check it out here & there for noise etc. Much improved compared to earlier.

Still under way:

- Simul-log functionality still not explored. Logic/hardware is all in place though.
- On-the-fly update needs to be played with and pinned down real good.

Woo-hoo! Thanksgiving is starting to look good again.

bigals87z28

very cool... very cool. I just got teh moates software to work.. and now i have to learn something new... i guess thats just the way the world turns...

Jekyll & Hyde

So are you planning on starting to sell these by Thanksgiving, or have the finished prototype ready to copy by then?

Also, let me just say that I am extremely excited and can't wait to get this thing in my car.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Will it incorpate a WBo2 controller to read and accept a WBo2?

Any maybe auto tune VE and PE according to commanded AFR by means of Wide Band?

:hail:

Thoughts?

Craig Moates

More updates, both items to be tested out on Sunday with the test mule:

- ALDL going through the AVR is now working on the bench. Working with a 'mimic' software mode to work with Moates Software, DataMaster, etc. Next step will be to show it works with TunerPro and the 115k uplink / datablock buffering.

- Firmware optimized for on-the-fly updates with existing circuit layout. Future mods could speed it up if need be. Working on about a 2uS window right now, could get it down to 1-200nS.


A WBO2 interface is beyond the present scope, although I can provide a couple of general-purpose 10-bit D/A converter connections. They could be used to accept a 0-1 or 0-5v signal from whatever and you could log it along with other data or whatever.

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Um.......yea...........I need those TPS reports right away..........that would be great........



So what you are saying is that it "could" have the ability to incorporate a wide-band o2 someday?

Jekyll & Hyde

I think that he is saying that one day it could, but for anything with voltage can be scanned and recorded. This would mean, that if you do have a WB02 that you could get the readings in voltage and turn them into A/F ratio to see what you are truley running at any given RPM.


Dang, I am so stoked, I can hardly wait. Are there any more updates?

Jekyll & Hyde

double post, my bad.

poncho@home

Has a price been set for this?

JP84Z430HP

Check out Craig's site. I think he had some preliminary pricing there. www.moates.net

Craig Moates

More updates:

- Got the update timing down to a single clock cycle, just crazy! Need to test and see how it does for on-the-fly updates. Should be fine at 140nS. Might even go to 70 just for kicks! That'll eat some mA though. I've got another trick up the sleeve too which should further stabilize the exertion during updates ;^).

- ALDL logging works through AVR in 'compatibility' mode (ie. 8192 on both ends). Still working packet-style log.

Based on current layout, another PCB revision is likely needed. However, I think I can make some of the units-in-hand functional. Gotta check it out.

Thanksgiving's still looking good...

Don't get too excited on the feature-creep train.
Right now, we've got the following booked for first issue:

-> Real-time nonvolatile emulation up to 1mbit. Volatile to 4mbit. Standard up to 512k into 28pin. Adapters for 24 or 32 pin.
-> Flash chip programming. Supports AT29C256 and AM29F040. 5v only.
-> ALDL datalogging. Pass-through hardware mode allows port-power option. 'Active' mode which can be simultaneous with emulation requires power from external / cig lighter or ECM EPROM socket via EMU header.
-> Compatible with TunerPro by Mark Mansur (AutoProm comes with TunerPro license). Other software will also be made to work.

Once we get all this working solidly, we'll talk about other stuff like WB, OBD2, LS1, etc.

See ya!

Mangus

Craig's a rock star. He's been kicking **** on this stuff. On the same token, my wife would like to kick his ****. He's been keeping me busy for a few months now. ;-)

Badas.sbird

Both of you guys are great. You have caught the eye of Scott Racing and I am looking forward to using and endorsing these products. I have been tuning for a long time and have never seen or heard of a device that has such broad vision and capabilities. I guarantee, especially if you do a ODB2 and LS1 version, that I will be making mass orders for this and can even help distribute and test. I also have any kind of F Body test vehicle at any given time. So if you guys need help I am here. Good luck and great job guys.