Well went to the track last night.
Had left early to be able to get a good parking spot in the pits.
I sure wish the track guys had a bit more of a sense of humor. Something about race cars and support vehicles only.

Then there was this darned yipping dog.

So we relocated closer to the snack bar, and got a few pepsis, and brauts. Had mustard and onions on mine. Ken elected to have a braut, onions, mustard, AND hot peppers on his.

It was amazing the huge crowd of people that were by the truck when we got back. Everyone was really concerned about some dog that was trapped under the R/R tire. Anyway, about ½ way thur the braut he stopped all that danged yipping.

Since some vette had broken on the opening pass of the night’s entertainment, wound up breaking out the Laptop, and while at first I was just gonna play soliataire, when I looked up and saw the huge crowd that was standing there with their mouths agap, so I figured, I’d hook up a scanner just to really impress them. So first I started with shorting out the ALDL connector, so as to check for trouble codes, and if there were any to explain to the masses what they were. But, quickly figured out I had that wrong after all the smoke cleared. I’ll tell ya that cigarette lighter sure looks like the ALDL after a few brews.
Well at least the mouth breathers were finding out how novel it was to breath properly. I figured I'd cut my loses with the scanner deal and just continue with Tunercat R_T, and just go for overwhelm.

It was like some one had brought out a stun gun, or turned on some undercar neon. The crowd was so silent.

On the way to the track I’d noticed a slight rolling of the idle rpm, so I figured I’d add a percent or 2 to the VE table in the idle area. So out came my Tunercat R_T in a few moments I’d loaded the Mask 85 tdf, called up the last bin. And made the change.

Then from the rear of the crowd in a meek voice, was the guestion.
Oh yaaaaaaaaaa.
Well a MAF is even easier.

And with the dropping of that guantlet, the challenge was taken.

I said FINE, I have a MOATES Adapter and memcal for a 165, take me to your ecm.

While it did take some time, due to having the throng having to rearrange itseld, we managed to get over to the small voice in the crowd’s 89 GTA.

Again, with a deftness that I even found impressive. I opened the laptop, and fired up R_T. Now with everyone starring at my ever move, I opened the case of his ecm, pegged the various bits together, read his prom, and in a loud and almost arrogant voice said……….
OK, what do you want to change?.

There was a pregnant pause, the stilllness of the air could have been shattered by a single moth taking wing.
Followed by, there is a slight not quite tip-in leaness as I try to go from 65 to 70 like when starting up a hill.
Ah Haaa, I said,
It sounds maybe a little lean there.
To which he replied, YES, YES, exactly.

I then asked at roughly what LV8 does that occur?.

Then a LONG pause,
Well I just don’t know, was his reply.

To min the poor lad’s embarrassement I quickly replied, OK, we can work off of Gm/sec.
Then another long pause.
It was only then that I realized the poor lost soul didn’t know either answer.

Again to save the poor lad from any further embarrasement,
I announced!
Tis no matter, we’ll just change the fuel injector constant.
And in my moment of being magnanamous, I realized I may have errored, and the my worst fear, happened at exactly that moment.

From almost at the perimeter of the throng was a timid voice that with trepidiation said, but won’t that effect EVERYTHING as far as fueling caluclation?.

I’d been had.
There was someone in the crowd that understood EFI.
So I said, YES, YES it will, but not much.

And again this trouble maker replied, NOT MUCH?.
If NOT MUCH then why even worry?
He then continued with, I thought the whole idea of EFI was to be better then carbs, and not having to settle for close enough.

Yes, Yes, I said, but even with this only so slight of error, it’s still better then a carb..
I thought surely that would silence the trouble maker.
But, he was not to be denied.

He replied,
OK, I guess for you close enough is fine.

I was to the stage now of having to force myself to use all the self control that I could, when I retought the situation and said, Have Mercy, Please, my vehicle is MAP, and I was only trying to help this 3rd Gener in his moment of need.

Now I had the crowd’s approval, and backing. It was a moment to savor.
After a short pause to fully take in the approval and feed my arrogance, I asked, so sir, what kind of car do you drive?
This was a rich moment, as all eyes turned to him. And again a long pause, but it was he that was sweating this time.

At one point it even looked as he was going to turn and run.
But, with a very muted reply, he said a 97 Gen 4 Camaro.

You could have again heard a pin drop.

I asked so what do you really know about EFI and tuning?.

His reply was that he sub’d to TGO, and read the Prom Burning Board, religiously.

It is a small world.

No computer models or dogs were actually injured in this scenario.

 

The ignorance of 1 seems to stain us all.

 

Sorry about that

 

So you were the culprit, Jay? Glad to see someone could give Bruce an anxious moment over a Delco

And Bruce, I'm ashamed of you. How many posts have I read that you should never tell the ECM lies?

Next thing you'll be using the kvu MAF tuning method LOL.

John

 

well I didn't do it to Grumpy, but I did do it to Traxion at the TGO nationals LOL

I'm an idiot, and will ask dumb questions without knowing all the information relative to the question I ask.

So basically, I could've been either person

 

Next you'll believe the part about parking on the dog, LOL

Point was, when talking a shortcut, they're always someone, or something that'll call you on it.

Have I ever lied to an ecm?
yes,

When?
Only in extreme circumstances. ie running over 55 PPH injectors on a turbo car making lots of HP, I'll fudge some entries, but even on one of those the injector stuff is Honest Entries.
Or if you look back 5 or so years ago, when we didn't have ANY commented hacs. Then it was a matter of just not having the info to do things correctly.

BTW, as a follow up, did 14 bench runs on the bench last night.
One test drive this morning to verify things, and now ready to make a pass, after a few minor tweaks. Hard to get easier then this.

 

So let me ask...what did your car run with its non-lie fed ECM?

Or did you just take it to the track to play magician in the parking lot

 

Still don't get it. . .

RBob.

 

What car?.
I took the truck. In the 9th sentence I mention that, there was a crowd around the truck.

A friend was supposed to be making a few shake down passes with his car, and I was going to help him with the datalogging and tune up. Turns out the driver had a commitment and couldn't make it to the track.

Magician?,
Thank You, I guess it would seem to be magic, but actually it's just proper tuning and having some idea of what goes on inside an ecm.

 

Ahhhh, I see. Cute story anyhow....I read it to my 2 yr old and he laughed through it also.

But anyhow...what does it run outta curiosity? Gas milage etc?

Rbob your more than welcome to share also...but doubt you will, since we shared...what...20+ Private messages....and you avoided the quesions in every one...still waiting.

 

As tempting as it is to comment about your first sentence, I'm just going to hope he enjoyed as much as when you read him your postings.

There's a current thread about the truck. I even mention some tranny tuning stuff since it's a PCM. You might want to read thru it so as to gain some insight into PCMs.

 

Yeah he enjoys them too...but he asks also...Why does your stories daddy have numbers and stuff to back them up

Until you start putting some physical proof on the table to your claims.....all it is is

 

See Ski, there you are again showing everyone how clueless you are. Maybe you should take some reading comprehension classes, may help you find a clue.

RBob.

 

Oh please,
dragging your kid into this is just silly.

All I've tried to do is explain how the code, works. And some tuning info.. If you don't believe it, then by all means figure it out, and correct me. All you've done is brag about how well an engine built by someone else runs. And from what you've posted you just run the timing to the max, run the injectors static, and add Toluene to keep it out of detonation. From where I sit, you haven't brought anything to the table, but reports of what you've done using others work.

 

Again, gumpy and I will add Rbob to this also. Please refer to last statement I made:

Until you start putting some physical proof on the table to your claims.....all it is is

ahh this will make responding soooo much easier.

 

Can ya feel the love here!!!!

 

All anyone's tried to do is explain to you whats going on, and you continually go off on your rants. I guess maybe if I was impressed with your results, you'd feel better. But, build a big enough engine, brew some fuel for it, and then to go fast just doesn't impress me. Sorry, I've just been around racing for so many years, it's lost it's some of it's fascination.

It's also actually saddening to me to hear of your test driving your race car thru the neighborhood at 1 am. I guess to some folks that's also impressive, but not to me.

 

Yeah guess you don't understand what our neighborhoods are up here. 1 house every 2 miles, on a back country rode. Well award you the merit badge for your concerns, and outstanding accomplishment at your last track appearance too.

Also, while you condemn me for my actions, you continually point out that YOU NEED that 4800+RPM range for fine tunin and absolute impeckable fueling in the upper RPM range....yet I keep saying on the street that never gets used....So what side of the fence you on? You said you don't race anymore, for reasons we won't bring up. You double talking again?

 

LOL
More nonsense.
Like you have a clue as to what I do or don't do.

 

Oh, thank you for including me. Get a clue, I have no reason to prove anything to you. Not only that, you have yet to even add any level of knowledge or know how to any thread here on the TGO site.

So what worth are you? Wait a minute. . . I did get a couple of good laughs from your posts today. See, I knew you where good for something.

RBob.

 

Yeah so how is that 4800+ RPM valuable again on the street? You don't like talking about strip/racing results, for obvious reasons. Anything over the speedlimit 65 most places, and 75 in some are not permitted....so how is fueling above 255+ g/sec important?

RBob, feel free to help out your sidekick with the answers. Since I have been saying that neither of the two matter one bit in a street car with power. But you two both COUNTLESS times tell me I am full of it, that its imperitive to have that control at those levels. Think my points were 1. powerful motor 2. no need to go past 1/2 throttle in street conditions, 3. WOT PE mode.......remember?

Now hurry on with that answer...its been said too many times to edit all the previous posts with those exact words....Knew it would be only a matter of time before we came full circle. Now that we know how you feel grumpy about street behavior and how impeckable we must all remain....can't wait to hear the answer?

But I'm sure you will avoid it like you obvoid all the REAL LIFE questions I throw at you and your companion R-U-Bob'in

 

OK, Ski-doodle-dandy, another good laugh today. Thank you. :laugh-on: :and-laugh-on-again:

RBob.

 

Glad your laughing....when your done you can answer my questions....

Boy I can't wait for this.....

 

See, still as clueless as the day you were born. I don't have to answer to you. You mean nothing to me. How hard can that be to understand? Oh, I forgot, it's that ego thing again. Gee Ski_daddle_down, you haven't a clue, do you?

RBob.

 

That's it in a nutshell, but the problem is Ski is getting answers when he escalates his attacks a little at a time, until tempers get lost and people get banned.

He actually bragged about having planned it that way when Grumpy was banned last time, and only shut up when he got banned himself. Then IIRC he got banned from the same site he was doing the bragging on.

An observation-

It's no point wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realise that you just get dirty, and the pig likes it

It's been said before, but Ski doesn't seem to have registered it. On this forum, going fast with a big motor on witch's brew, with a pegged MAF and PE "control" of AFR is not a small fraction as impressive as understanding how to use an ECM, and all the source code and ECM bench tools, to get full control of a motor.

The guys you're attacking know how to do that Ski, and you don't. You're wasting your time and ours throwing sticks and stones.

My $0.02 worth.

John

PS, at this stage in one of these threads, you usually accuse me of being a "sidekick" and a "dog". Would you please choose another insult to add a little fresh humour?

 

Locked for obvious reasons (because I am a big, bad, power hungry horrible moderator ). Don't worry - the other post like this is locked too and has the same exact text. Works both ways as usual. Jesse eggs Bruce on in his thread. Bruce eggs Jesse on in his thread. Both should let go - but, alas, we're back to where we started (and not too long from when both of you were on probation). Ho hum. If the lock brings emotion then drop me an e-mail and we can talk about it there ... but, these are rediculously obvious with all the smack flying around in the context of the now old but never dead Grumpy-Ski conflict.

Tim