If you have an Innovative WB, be careful about getting any water NEAR the harness to sensor connector!.

The Harness side is not even water resistant so any moisture can get into the connector, and ruin the connection.

I had installed one in my truck the other day, and while it worked for 24 hours, then it quit. Today I was able to pull it the sensor out, and was able to see what the problem was. When I unplugged the sensor water literally ran out of the connector.

I'll be calling themm tomorrow about what to do, but wanted to just get this out-there.

 

Thanks for the heads up Grumpy, let us know what they say about this.

Might not be a problem here in Texas, it has not rained in a long time.

 

Since the damage is done, they're sending a new cable and sensor.

He recommended, using RTV to plug up the openings. It's something that they may have to look at.

 

Sounds like a halfbaked patch. When in a bind though... I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. Sounds like they dropped the ball once they hit the sensor though.

How many wires? Why not just visit the local dealer or wrecking yard and pick up a weatherpack connector or two? 5 wires? There are lots of 2+3 wire male+female weatherpacks out there. Chop, crimp, snap, done. No more water.

 

One thing to remember is that the WB sensor requires an influx of air through the wires and connector. The L1H1 sensor connector has a small hole in the back of it for this purpose. The Bosch sensor is available with a connector that has a hole. If no hole then the harness connector needs to have one.

As such either the harness or the sensor connector needs a small opening that leads to the sensor wire ends. The air travels in & out of the sensor via the wires to the connector body.

RBob.

 

Interesting.

So if thats the case... what is the OE doing to prevent unwanted water entry that Grumpy apparently didnt? Just a mounting location/orientation issue? That or it sounds like he became the first WB o2 guinea pig for proving that water can in fact ruin your day.

 

Since the heater allows for using the Honda sensor, I might put a Honda connector on it so I can easily swap out sensors from one type to another, and the Honda connector is weather resistant.

I wonder what the Bosch folks will say seeing one of their sensors with a Honda Connector on it, LOL.

 

Achtung!

Can you post back about the cost and difficulty of getting one of those connectors? Havent treaded much down the Honda path myself...

 

The location/orientation (to borrow) is what I figured. The L1H1 has a mounting grommet on the cable leads that would be used to attach it in a particular place.

RBob.

 

Junkyard items, they're used in several locations. Taking a WB with you allows for matching it up. There's a headlight and dissy connector that works.

 

I just received mine. I have never seen such a connector! I think you guys have world's more experience than I regarding auto connectors. I read it needs air circulation through it? so a weather pack GM connector wont work? RTV that will plug hole too? pack with dielectric grease? any way of placiing the connector in interior of car? too short on cable ? I hate to cut it but it appears the HONDA connector is only alternative? part number? If i go to parts house they want year make model as we know. I have until 4/04 since car in storage.

 

tt

 

OK, some tips. Don't even go near the O2 sensor or connector with dielectric grease. It contains silicon which will poison the sensor.

My understanding of the Innovative connector is that there are a few wire/pin openings within the shell. This is bad. The connector itself needs to be in such a way that water doesn't just fill it.

There does need to be a vent to atmospheric air. Hence the requirenment of not sealing the connector up.

RBob.

 

So, what's the solution?

 

Just make the vent hole EXTREMELY small so that water won't transfer thru it.
That's what I plan to do on mine.

 

what is the honda connector? part # ?

 

It's *the headlight connector, distributor connector, deallie by the master cylinder connector*. Varies by year.

It's not available other then buying a whole harness, from Honda.

 

I think you guys might be confusing this issue. The connector can be completely sealed. It is the SENSOR that needs a vent to atmosphere. There is no reason that the electrical leads need any sort of venting, unless the connector is physically part of the sensor body. Every picture of lambda sensors I've ever seen have a pigtail lead with a connector. Best bet is to use a GM weatherpack style connector or something equivalent.

 

i guess that makes more sense. i only looked at it once in box for damage when shipped. i would assume the stock GM sensor would be designed similarly(vented). apparently that vent is not an issue. my sotck sensor is a bosch anyway. i guess all i need do is replace with GM weatherpack style.

 

And section 9.13 of the Bosch LSU4.2 and LSU 4.7 specification states:

9.13 For physical reasons the sensor needs ambient air at its reference gas
side. Replacement of the air volume inside the sensor must be guaranteed by
a sufficient air permeability of the wires and the connectors between sensor
and ECU. The breathability should be higher than 1 ml/minute at a test
pressure of 100mbar.
The current Bosch LSU connector is available with an integrated pressure
compensation hole with a permeable membrane, which guarantees a sufficient
air supply. This hole must be saved from deterioration as wax, oil etc.

Seems to me that it is a connector/wiring issue.

RBob.

 

While at the parts store last week, they had a headlight connector for a Honda right there on the shelf. It had 5 wires, but I have no idea if it was the same style as the o2 connector. Was in a CalTerm package.

I might check the app guide and see what cross-references.

 

And tomorrow at 5 we'll discuss osmosis.



Arcanium humor to the rescue...

 

Hey, I saw something at the parts house last week too!.
Maybe I should investigate what it was.
Matter of fact there were a whole bunch of things.

 

I agree.... air venting through wires,lol.....

 

Maybe you should read section 9.13 of the Bosch LSU 4.2/4.7 specification. Oh wait, I quoted it above. . .

RBob.

 

Yes and it's talking about the "connector" at the base of the sensor. Not the weatherpack connector that goes to the engine harness. There is a small hole in the "plastic" that the wires come out from the sensor(that vents the air). The wires don't have air passages that go up to the weatherpack to vent. If they do then could you post a pic because I have never seen one. And I have worked on hundereds of cars.....

 

The LSUs are Bosch and don't use weatherpack connectors.

While the wires attachment to the sensor may not be absolutely a perfect seal, it's tight enough to be almost air tight.

The air passage way, is between the stands of wire with in the insulation. If you were to cut then solder the wires and then heatshrink them properly a GM sensor would quit working. I'd refer you to the DIY-EFI archives for several case histories of where guys had done this, and had the sensor die, and then cut out the soldered area, and used a crimp connector, and the sensor came back to life, but the archives there are down the last I looked.

 

While I am looking, maybe you can check the junkyard.

 

Let's take a look at that spec. It needs a minimum of 1 ml/min at 100 mbar. 100 mbar is about a 10th of an atmosphere, or about 1.4 to 1.5 psi. You can probably generate about 2 psi using your mouth to create some pressure against a dead head.

Try this experiment. Pick up a wire like that used in an O2 sensor. Try blowing some air "through" the wire. (Humor me here.) You probably can't do it. Now imagine trying to get 60 ml/hr through it.

Kinda funny if you think about it. Reference air through wire? Use your head.

Scot

 

I am using my head. One aspect of this is that I use the manufacturer of the sensor technical specification document. Hmm, pretty good start right there, wouldn't you agree?

As for the wire permeability maybe you should run the test and prove Bosch to be incorrect. I have nothing to prove, you do. Should be easy to setup, MityVac to provide a measureable magnitude of air pressure, a length of wire from a Bosch sensor, glass of water and a test tube. Fill test tube with water, invert into glass with water, place open end of wire into/under test tube, provide air under pressure to opposite end of wire, measure time to displace volume of water from test tube. Results by this evening?

Next question: according to section 5.8 of Bosch document Y 258 K01 005-000e, technical specification, the sensor can be operated while submerged under water:


5.8 Submergence test acc. IEC 529, IPx7

Water level 150 mm above sensor cable outlet. Test duration is 30 min. The connection plug must be out of water during the test. The sensor is operated with a LSU control unit in this test, the sensor signal is monitored. In the test time the signal must be stable.


Dang, sensor wouldn't pass this test if it were vented, now would it?

RBob.

 

the connection plug is on the opposite end of the sensing side. so that means they submerged the sensor just enough and the air vent on the top of the sensor was not submerged. As grumpy said, there is no other plug on the sensor...other than the one that wires come out from the sensor. documents are nice BUT real world experience is the bottom line.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I'm saying that I've never seen anything like you are describing........ ......A metal wire that flows water.....uhhh....what.???

 

Hi guys,
Thanks Grumpy for the heads up on the connector. I have not had any problems with mine but I have not tried to tune if it is raining. For the wideband users who are installing the wideband permantly, I would reccomend trying to get the connector inside the car. It should be long enough.
Im going to see if Klaus with Innovate can chime in here and give us some more tips. Also keep a eye on the Innovate motorsports forum, found in the support menu. The forum should answer most of your questions and it has the latest software updates.

 

"tuning while it is rainin" ? i dont think that is the issue? is not the issue corrosion? i dont think the distance fron the sensor to connector is long enough to get it into interior of car. is this product designed only for use at the track? if so if it rains that day(at track) one would clean it. issue is that mine is a daily driver and i hope this is not a maintainance routine. to access it frequently would be a pain in butt. are we exagerating this issue?

 

Maybe a reread is necessary. In 24 hours mine was dead, to me that is serious.

If you have an Innovative WB, be careful about getting any water NEAR the harness to sensor connector!.
The Harness side is not even water resistant so any moisture can get into the connector, and ruin the connection.
I had installed one in my truck the other day, and while it worked for 24 hours, then it quit. Today I was able to pull it the sensor out, and was able to see what the problem was. When I unplugged the sensor water literally ran out of the connector.
I'll be calling themm tomorrow about what to do, but wanted to just get this out-there.

 

Grump: you stated lost the connection in first post. i was unsure if it was a lack of continuity/connection or permanent damage. i see in your second post it was major damage. do you feel there is enough cable to get the connector in the interior of car? my bung will be just behind the header in exhaust pipe. might be close!