Ive been working really hard at learning to read source code and how to create a hack in order to finally be able to create an ecu file to tune with. I just cant seem to find the right way to do it. I have taken a bin file and disassembled it and now have that info handy but dont really know how to go from here. Ive tried using the asm11 assembler but with no success. Is this something that is to hard for someone without a programming degree to do? All i want to do is put in the comments so i can create an ecu file for the car i race at the circle track. I do not want to change the source code, just use the info i need. Im not going to give up on this so i hope these questions are not out of line or anything. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

What ecm do you have? If its one of the more common ones there may be a hac for it, in which case you just go off of the hac to create your ECU file. You dont need a degree to do source code, but prior knowlege of computers is a definate plus. Even so, theres a really steep learning curve and your going to have to have at least a fair knowledge of assy. and how the ecm operates in order to correctly ID what does what in the source code.

 

I hope that these will be an extended tread because I am also willing to learn how to manage the ECU files.
I did one addition to the $6E but it was only a “Constant” that was not so difficult using TunerPro RT.
Mark Mansur has on his site and explanation about how to build an ECU. See “The Basics of creating an ECU file (or any definition file) from a hack” that is a good start.
http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/t...eatingECUs.htm
The “Tables” are more difficult but if the commented Hack is extended it will be possible. The difficulties are in the kind of operation (multiply, divide) and the Offset.

Looking to the used ECM 165 you can have the $32, $32B and the $6E the last one ($6E) is very extended due that Mark Mansur him self use these mask.
I am interested to bring the $32B mask ECU to a higher level or equivalent to the $6E
I have found the next ECU files:
The $6E mask use the “6Ev011.ecu”
The $32B mask use the “32Bv001.ecu”
As you see the versions are much separated each other “version 11 vs. 01”
Is the BUA hack the best start for the $32B mask? Are the addresses located at the same position?

So is there a group of people that wants to help to bring the $32B to a better level?

I hope that this help you.
Regards,
Cobra289

 

What is a 'mask'?
Is it the binary code that is hardwired into the ecm, or?
What is the significance of ---$--- in this stuff?
(sorry for bozo questions)
thanks for any comments.

contact

 

I am very interested in learning Source code and how to creat a ECU file, I have also read a few post where GRUMPY states that some of the Seasoned Members aren't as willing to help newbies because the learn what they need and leave, never to help solve any issues and Help Bring DIY-Prom To a Higher Level. And a lot of the older members Don't Post as much as they Use to, and if more people Focus and pull togeather we would be able to make a lot more progress, with out taking Steps Backwards.

I would personally like to thank any and everybody that has made any contrabution to the advancement in DIY-Prom. Like
Mangus, Grumpy, Traxtion, Glenn91L98GTA, RBob, Craig Moates, Ken73, Bill, The Maker of Tuner Cat, The maker of WinAldl, Mike Davis ECT. I know I left a lot of people out But These are just a few that I Personally know form these boards and have chatted with.

Well if there was a on going thread that was able to help newbies learn this so that we were all on the same page I think that there would be a lot of intrested noobs. I my self have spent countless hours in the past 6-7 months trying to learn Assmbly, Source Code, Ect. but the info I find contradicks the rest of the info or it is so scatterted it can be hard to find (EVEN USING THE SEARCH BUTTON) So Here I go.

As I see it us noobies are very anxious to road test and Figure things out so there would be more people able to work on new things and we are Very happy to jump at a new Challange

So help us Help DIY-Prom

Sorry for ramballing I work 3rd shift and just got home and am ready for bed. Well that is my .02 Worth

 

The “mask” is a kind of template for the software (TunerPro, WinBin) to find the location of the information and tell to the software how to translate this information to real understandable figures.

The ECM works with the binary file that is loaded at the EPROM. The binary file (BIN) contains all the kind of measurements from sensors and calculations.

The $ symbol means that is a HEX figure and not a decimal or other type of numbers.

The ECU file is used to manage (Change) the BIN file so that you don’t need to be on the CODE directly, let’s say you don’t need to be able to program to change your BIN file.
It is just for US the newbie’s.

Manipulating the ECU file is the first step in the CODE world and means that you need to find where the information is located and make it viewable (readable)

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Well, now that we have some intrest here, lets keep it going. I already know how to create the ecu file if i have the hack in front of me but i want to know how to get the info that is on the hack. Here is an example:

;-----------------------------------------------------------
; Table vs RPM vs MAP
;
; If RPM >= 4800 RPM use table @ $4153
;
; 13 x 17
;-----------------------------------------------------------
4073: FCB 000
4074: FCB 000
4075: FCB 013
; 400 RPM
4076: FCB 097 ;
4077: FCB 097 ;
4078: FCB 097 ;
4079: FCB 097 ;
407A: FCB 097 ;
407B: FCB 092 ;
407C: FCB 088 ;
407D: FCB 087 ;
407E: FCB 085 ;
407F: FCB 085 ;
4080: FCB 080 ;
4081: FCB 077 ;
4082: FCB 074 ;

4083: FCB 097 ;
4084: FCB 097 ;
4085: FCB 097 ;
4086: FCB 097 ;
4087: FCB 097 ;
4088: FCB 092 ;
4089: FCB 088 ;
408A: FCB 087 ;
408B: FCB 085 ;
408C: FCB 085 ;
408D: FCB 080 ;
408E: FCB 077 ;
408F: FCB 074 ;

Now, how do we find what rpm values go at each spot, 400, 800, 1000, etc... Where is this info at or is it universal on all gm ecu's? I know the the FCB is Form Constant Single Byte and the number following is the value but im not sure where to find the rpm and map values. Maybe this would be a good start to learning. If this is not good, then we can use the arap hack and see if some of these guys can shed some light, like maybe a walk thru step by step of how to find the info for the main spark advance and then how to comment it so that we can then use that info to make the ecu file. Any takers?

 

Hi clippjr8,
Hold your horses, do you think that you request will be so easy?
Get commented a BIN file is the work that some of the guys mentioned by “MTPFI-MAF” did during the last years.
It is a kind of trial and error work that takes years of work for one person, you need to build hardware “test bench” see sticky https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=99993 or others.
If you read Grumpy “Programming 101” than you will understand what I mean.
http://www.diy-efi.org/gmecm/papers/
Don’t forget that those guys’s are tired from helping to others and don't get help from us of others.

Read below what Glenn91L98GTA has to say.

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Excuse me but ive done the homework and read all the post you speak of so im in no hurry to finish something up so i can take off and not help others. If this were easy, i would not be here asking questions on how to get a little further than i am now. Im sure the guys are really tired of helping people and not hearing back from them, that we can all understand.

I tell you what, just point me to the post that gives a step by step breakdown of how to disassemble a bin and then go thru the motions to just (define if you will) the main spark adv table or the pe vs rpm table and that will answer all my questions and the questions of the other people here that are trying to learn how to do this to better themselves, IF there is such a post. If there is not, then lets quit holding our horses and get to making this post.

 

Hi clippjr8
I hope that you are not offended. Please don’t understand my post as an accusation; I was trying to tell you that the experienced guy’s don’t be show up on this post.
The post that you ask doesn’t exist. There are only pieces of the puzzle spread over lots of post. That is what I found. I am in the same situation as you, every time you find a new barrier.
You need to read this tread started by Grumpy, read the post of “Glenn91L98GTA” [This is a copy of an e-mail I sent to Jon Prevost regarding "Creating Source Code".]
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...to+disassemble

I did with the help of my brother in law a disassembly of my preferred bin (APYS) using the information guides from Techedge. http://www.techedge.com.au/utils/dhc11tut.htm but I am stuck in the identification of the vectors.
I hope that this will help you
Regards,
Cobra289

 

I have also read all the post people recommend and Programing 101 and When it almost makes sense I read another post and it just confuses me more.

I think a thread that has a walk through examples As a learning tool would be great. And it would be the modderators duty to delete any non usefull or arguing Between oppions. all thought Helpful Disagrements are what lead us to think Out Side The Box. Well I hope this will happen, this thread Could be a usefull Learning tool for Noobies and help keep Us from Asking How Over and Over if the thread is kept on topic and Handeled correctly.

Just pick one area to consintrate on and any additional people that jump in need to stay on this if they Want to learn not ask how to fix their specific Porblem. That way you help them understan How to do it and not do it for them (a guide line if ya will) Don't catch fish for us teach us how to Fish!!

just my .02

 

The idea of having a thread dedicated to nothing but beginning with a disassembly, then showing some of the "simpler" routines that are taking place within the code would benifit many.
I'll explain,
The reason (as I can see it) that many of the more experienced people get turned off is probably exactly as Glen and Grumpy have stated it. They get knowledge and help, then leave and not help anyone who is now in the position they were in before they got help.
There are jerks like that in any forum of learning, but to stick the "masters" of the art with ALWAYS having to answer the Noob question is definatly a turn off for them and I'm sure is not technically challenging at all. Which is the reason (I would think) alot of these people started doing it in the first place.
A dedicated thread that walks us noobs through some basics will leave a trail of information that can be browsed better than hunting and searching for specifics.
The noobs who have directly benifited from the direct help SHOULD, repeat SHOULD help the next guy.
Alot of the code stuff involves changes using WB or something like that, there doesn;t seen to be a basic "operation" breakdown for the more common operations. As stated above in another post, I have also looked at the hack (and printed all 400 pages) to try to follow some operations. It's a difficult road that can be made easier to understand with a little nudge here and there.
I don't really expect anyone to give me "fish" either, Frankly I don't want it. I want to learn why its programmed to operate the way GM thought it should be and I can figure out what I want it to do from there.
I really don't want to add to anyones workload there but by moderating the board to remove the "my car does this" stuff would be needed to keep the technical end going.
Once the subject gets broken down and begins leaving viable trails for the newest noobs, the first set may already be up to actually discussing things intellegently with the "masters" to really get things interesting and put the best minds to work on the best problems and solutions. The guys with the knowledge would aprreciate it and thing would be alot more interesting to them as it is with the noobs.

FYI,
Not in the market (EVER) to start a business burning, tuning or anything like that. Just here to advance my newest long term hobby. I got a wife and three kids, 5 GM cars and not a ton of spare time.
My $0.03 (it was more than 2)
JP (alias NoOb !)

 

The tread name is:
“How to create an ECU file”
I think that it will be better if try first to extend the existing ones.
$32B is my first choice because the existing one is not so extended.
To add entries on an ECU file you need a Hack (hac?)
I have the BUA hack but this is a $32 mask so the addresses are not equal. (it is more than nothing)

Do you need more information about disassembling? Go here:
http://www-csl.cs.colorado.edu/LegoRobots/6811_asm.html
Do you need a $6E commented disassembled APYP bin? Go here:
http://www.donostia.demon.nl/APYP7165-relocatable.asm

Can you help me with the $32B mask ECU file?

Regards,
Cobra289

 

Didn't mean to hijack/misdirect the thread .
Thanks for the links though, I'm working with $8D not familliar with $32B. I'll be in Netherlands end of the month, would love to see the cobra if you are near Schipohl
Will send PM, don't want to carry on here.
JP

 

In a way it does come down to knowing assy. In order to have a good ECU/TDF or what have you definition file, you have to have an accurate commented hack to build off of, otherwise your definition file wont be correct and youll plow over stuff. One nice thing is that there are lots of hacks for many ecms so you can take a similar hack and use it as a guide to the mask that your trying to dissasemble and comment. Its a bitch but going through it all is necessary in order to get accurate information. Even the professional stuff has errors in it. Ive always looked at the info on this site and others not as pieces to a puzzle but rather as a tool box full of tools. The info that people supply here wont help you get an immediate answer, but will rather help you to get a good foundation to acheive what you want to. Beleive it or not, there was enough info here for me to learn assembly and dissasemble and fully comment my '8063 ecm.

Basically, if you have some hacks that are similar, use those as a template. Read through them and see how the code is organized on a whole and where everything is located. Dissasemble the bin that you have and start at the vector tables and follow those into the beginning of the code. From there, trace through everything and see how much you can find. You wont have to find everything at once, just try to get as much of the code commented as possible. From there, you go back and see what else you can find. Even though at first there will be alot of stuff that you wont know what it does, after youve managed to get through a good deal and at least look through it, eventually youll see what memory addresses and tables are used where and from that youll be able to tie it together. Granted its alot more complicated then this, it is doable. I decided to do almost all the work myself w/o sponging off of the similar hacks and when I first started, almost all of what I had was just semi-colons after the pnemonics with lots of empty space after them. It was discuraging at first but eventually as I came across other items it all started to come together.

Some basic pointers would be to:
Take careful notes of what you dont know and what your looking for.
Take your time, if you dont know something, leave it and come back later.
After you go through and get some basic comments down, go through and pick apart the various loops. GM code is nice in that everything is organized to seperate but linked loops that help to some extent compartmentalize the code so each algorthim can be looked at seperately.
Lasty, dont jump to conclusions! I did on occasion and later when you get to another portion of the code, you find that the code you previously did actually did something else and it leaves you confused for a bit untill you figure out what the code really does.

 

Guys - I just finished writing up a quick little paper on hexidecimal and how it works. I know some of the new guys are mystified by this...

http://www.supportfitness.com/mark/t...tandingHex.htm

Enjoy!

Mark

 

I too am very interested in learning how to use the ecm source code but have NO IDEA! Would really appricated some links to direct everyone. I have the 730 ecm and can not use win bin, however, I do know there are people out there able to do so. I think this is by using the source code? And thanks for the links above, I will be reading them like the good book

 

If you already havnt done so, get the HC11 reference manual. Pay peticular attention to the sections on the processor and the instruction set. Theres also craigs file server. Take a look at some of the hacks there.

 

Although all this info is very good, it still does not give us what we are looking for. Everyone is trying to explain how to go about it but no one is giving any examples. I dont care what mask we start with, i just want to learn this stuff. Is there anyone that is very good with a praticular mask that can start from the stock binary file and then walk us thru from step one to finally having some info to use to create the ecu file? Im not asking someone to completely go thru a hack, just start with one table and break it down from there. I know this is alot of work, but we need to get more people involved to further the diy tuning process.

 

Did you read the "how to create an ECU file" paper? It gives you step by step instructions, with examples from a hac.

 

Yes i did read the how to create an ecu file from an existing hack, key word being existing. We want to start from the beginning, the binary file and go from there. That is the mission. Your program is amazing and that is not were the problem is. We need to know how to go from the binary file in the car to the hack that we need to create the ecu file.

 

Fair enough.

Sounds like the problem is that your question goes far beyond what could possibly fit in a single thread.

The information is here in the boards. The place to start is the 6811 doc posted above. Learn the instruction set. Learn it well. Then browse through an existing (there's that word again) hac and follow it for yourself with your new found instruction set vocabulary.

Once you get that far and can understand, without question, what is happening in the assembly language, then its time to start a new thread and ask a different question.

I don't think directions on how to build a trans-atlantic capable business jet could fit in a single thread; And for similar reasons.

 

Ok mangus, i will do that and let you know where i get. Im getting very good at the instructions as it is, im just not good at getting the asm 11 to do what i want. Im not even sure i need to use the asm 11 for what i am trying to accomplish. I am pretty good at using the tuner disassembler though which has come in handy for getting where i am now. If there is any other info out there that will lead us in the right direction, we are all listening. Once again, thank you mangus! your work on tunerpro has helped me on every step of the way. You and craig moates are a great asset to the diy community and we applaud you.

 

With the number of well commented hack's that are out there for various masks, that is the place to start. Much of the stuff seems to be similar between all of them.

No need to re-invent the wheel here! If you use the hacks that are available to learn what's going on, and how the source code works, it should be much easier to hack your own bin. This is the exact approach I'm taking on it. So far, I have just gotten lost in the code, but I'm starting to get it. Once I get a handle on what's going on, I hope to be able to make the code do what I want it to! Things are pretty good in stock form, but there's always room for refinement!

I just wish this "job" thing I deal with every day would quit getting in the way of the time I have to spend on this stuff!!!!

 

Now, if someone would just write a "ECM source code for Dummies" book, I'd be set!

 

amen! I need a step by step instruction book! No ship! I mean, Yea, I can figure out a lot of crap, but my job is requires me to do a lot of continuing eductaion and then learing this stuff, you have no real guide lines, gotta figure it out for your self. sometimes, you don't know where to start? Dummies book would be great, even a point in the right direction would be greatly appriciated!

 

A good place to start would be to try some simple programming in a language like basic or one of the older versions of C that arnt complicated like the newer editions seem to be. Getting a good handle on how computer logic works goes a long way to helping you understand whats going on. To me, learning computer programming for the first time by doing assembly would be like trying to get food into your stomach by sticking it up your butt. Assembly is somewhat backwards and on top of that there is no direct way to see whats happening since there is no computer screen atached to your ecm. After some time with it, though, assembly as become my favorite language. Its simpler then the complex languages and it can be traced by jsut looking at the commands. In higher languages, black box type commands make things more difficult to debug and understand.

 

Are you talking of the C++? I have a degree in computer networking (cisco CCNP cert.) however, networking is a different world than programing. I do see on my pocket programmer the values in hex, I just don't know how to install the hack? example; to omit the egr code? say it is at 00d1 to 00d9, just put in FFFF to omit it correct? And as far as the winbin, I do not have any idea of how to get my 730 ecm working for that program since it does not support it, yet i know there are many using winbin on the 730 ecu. programing issues such as these, I and many others do not know where to start?? AND Thank You all for the help and guidance! I do program my own chips via CM software and TC, but understanding the code is a different world! Thanks again for the direction and anyother pointers would be greatly appricated from many of us here!:hail:

 

Here is a direct question. If i have the bin file disassembled and have some of it commented with the help of others, How can i find where the pe vs rpm or coolant temp tables are. Ive tried pattern reading and nothing seems to look the same. I have used different hacks with no luck. Im using the 16191947 ecm with the bJLT bin. Its a 27C512 eprom.

 

Hmmm... The best way would be to try and find the start of the spark, fuel, and real time service routines and break up the code and comment where the loops are so you know where you are in the code. Next thing to do would be to get a similar hac and try and line yourself up in your hac and comment around that area and find out what does what. Also another helpful thing is knowing some of the RAM addresses for various things like coolant and speed. If the wiring for the two ecms are the same then try and get what the A/D channels are as well. Most of the time the RAM addresses are different and which channel is read in will tell where MAP, TPS, CTS, etc are stored in the RAM. That will give you some idea of what the code does. Like, if you know that coolant is loaded and then the address for a table is loaded in addition to that before a read takes place then odds are that tables units are in those of coolant temp. Itll be more difficult if you dont know whats what in the RAM. All youll have is addresses but no meaning to go along with them.

 

Thanks Dim....

That makes SOME sense to me. I'll have to dig around in some hacks and see if I can follow what you're saying about ram locations, etc....

Now, where did I put some of that extra time I had.....I need some to look at this before I forget my train of thought!! LOL

 

i disassembled my bin and i cant make any sense of it. other hacks i looked very clear