Hello all. I run a 7730 in my 396 Vette now with good results. I'm thinking that since I still use my gutted MAF (but still operational) MAF in my intake, I could go back the the 165 ECM. The only reason would be to have my mileage displays work on my dash. I switched to SD in the first place to help with a tip in problem on a miniram. Now that I have the Super Ram, I can't see any reason to keep the 7730. The car does start quicker with SD and sems to have better throttle response.

Comments?

 

Going back to maf would be dumb, IMO. kinda like going from the miniram, to a superram.. Why did you do that?

WHy dont your displays work?

 

MPG readings vs drivibility.

Comments?

I guess if your willing to give up some drivibility to see a few numbers on the dash, then go ahead.
I don't get where there's even a guestion.

 

anesthes. Why is it dumb to switch from the Miniram to the Super Ram? The Miniram sucked big time. No torque at all. My modified Super ram has over 510 lb ft of torque. With a six speed and 3.33 gears it is a blast plus the driveability is far better.


Grumpy. When I ran the MAF with the Super Ram I had no driveabiltiy problems. It was when I converted the the Miniram I had the problems. I am making the assumption that since I now have the super ram again, I would not have any issues with the MAF. That is why I said the only reason for switching would be to regain my MPG and range functions on the dash.

 

Theres something wrong here. THe miniram should make more power. you dyno'd both setups?

Doesn't sound right.

-- Joe

 

Try switch back to the 165, if you dont like it you could always go 730....again...

I think with a 396 you should have plenty of torque with the miniram.....I'm planing on switching my superram for the HSR on my 9.0 415cui, I have too much torque

/N.

 

Your words were:
The car does start quicker with SD and sems to have better
throttle response.

You've managed to confuse Doc, now.

 

Whos Doc?

 

Yeah, the miniram sucks, sucks more air than a SR. What, are you trying to tow something OR drag race. I bet you didn't change the cam with the MR and SR, doesn't matter much though. Just could be why you didn't like the miniram. Please, don't take that as a flame



What kind of evidence do you have to support that assumption? Both systems should work fine, if you know how to tune the ecm...

 

Thats kinda the point I was getting at, but.. whatever.

I believe Ski_dwn_it went from the superram, to basicly the same setup i'm running right now right?

-- Joe

 

WOW! You guys are making me look like a John Kerry Waffle House!

I shouldn't have said the Miniram sucks. What I should have said is that I have tried both manifolds and I prefer the SR. I prefer it because the car had better street manners in my opinion. I did not build the motor with 1/4 mile performance in mind and am currently happy with the way my car runs.

Now, the reason for the question in the topic title is since I feel I can tune the MAF to provide the same street manners and driveability as the MAP, is there any performance loss I might be faced with? If not (remember the MAF is still in the intake duct), then I could return my car to a stock condition (ECM Speaking) and have my mileage and range funtions operate properly.

As far as the intakes go, do a search on my old posts and you can see the problems I had.

As far HP, I went from 335HP 380TQ with the miniram to 365HP/432TQ with the Superram at the rear wheels through cats and mufflers. That was with the old cam. My cam now has increased duration on the intake side to compensate for the longer intake runners. Also my runners were welded and shortened by 1.75". I did not return to the dyno since I modified the Super ram or the installed the reverse split duration cam. I can tell you that it pulls hard and revs easly to 6500 without the "hitting a wall" feeling.

 

Well, you're the one setting the stage.

*I feel*, *I might*?.
Well by golly, if you feel that way about it, try it and get back to us. If your in doubt, then the only true answer is figuring it out for yourself.

Yep, if you miss the tune, you'll be down on HP.

 

Who's Doc?.
Well, you just need to make it to a POWWOW, and meet him. Well, if he's not busy doing something. He's one of the members of the research team here. He's also chief custodian of the official CSH.

 

How far are the POWWOW's from Boston?

-- joe

 

They're around the Ohio/Indiana border and there are at least 2 guys I know of that take the trip from the Boston/NH area.
Doc is a really weird but shy guy. I've never seen him but I've seen his work. He does good work most of the time, the rest of the time he leaves wires all over Grumpy's car.

Maf... why? Why go back from SD? Kind of pointless with the slower ALDL datastream (unless in screw up my engine mode).

 

Zip 45304 +- a few miles, to where we actually meet.

 

He does excellent work. Almost unbelievible it is. Really first rate.






I have to say that or he'll be wanting a raise...
Like most folk, praise or new job discription, appeases he wanting a salary increase.

 

I'm pretty surprised at the closed-mindedness above the MR vs. SR here. They are two totally different intakes for two totally different powerbands. How can anybody feel that they are above the other one and bash it?

 

I'm not close minded. It's just true, SR is for a heavy car or a tow truck. MR is flat out performance and HP. With a big engine, you don't want an intake designed for torque . Trust me, I know.

 

I don't have to trust you as you're only 1 person with 1 opinion. Like I said they are absolutely different intakes for different goals.

 

Oh ***, just give it up. The SR was designed to retain the stock style TPI baseplate, which obviously is 90% of the problem as is. Everyone knows it, regardless of what you think. This isn't MR, vs HSR, vs LT1.. This is Good intake vs junk. End of story.

And I havn't even spoken about the complexity of its assembly, and how its prone to vac/boost leaks.

-- Joe

 

Church!

 

You crack me up. I've had my SR on and off many times and the only time it was hard was the 1st time I put it on. I've also never had any vacuum with it. I have no problem with the MR, one of my friends runs one and it does very well.

BUT.... like I said they are made for different people. Hell don't get me going on the MR, lean cylinders and surges.

 

Thats an inherant problem with any of those front throttle body mounted setups. Thats why I went singleplane efi.



-- Joe

 

Anesthes, Just out of curiosity have you ever run the miniram or the super ram on your car? I had a modifed TPI set up with a ported base, large runners and a ported plenum. Then I went to a as cast super ram, then a miniram then back to a heavily modded Super ram.

 

What kind of MPH are you at going through the traps with your 396 SR?

 

114 with a 2.0 60' time on street tires. I ordered a set of drag radials that will arrive next week. Remember that all of us do not build motors for 1/4 mile performance alone. I am saying this because I have a feeling you are going to tell me I should be running faster. The car is very hard to launch with all that torque. 114 mph was with me shifting at 5300.

 

No actually you are running fine, if 114 is all you are after. I was just going to suggest that a MR should put you closer to 120 or more. Before you assume what I'm thinking maybe you should listen a little. The fastest guy on this board(87_t/a) has a 406 w/ MR, ask him what he thinks. His car does great in the 1/4 and I'm sure beyond. You asked about the miniram....

First off I really don't give opinion, mostly facts. Second, do your homework, a MR outflows the SR. sorry.

Just for kicks, tell ME what IS the goals of each intake

 

That guy runs a 4200 stall and a 242/242 cam. Huge difference between our motors. I am being a little defensive that is all. I think we can agree on one thing for sure and that is the debate on the Suer Ram vs the Miniram will contine for many years to come!

 

No, I ran various runner/plenem configurations on an aftermarket base. I did a lot of homework on the superram, miniram, lt1, hsr, and so on.

I ended up going with a converted singleplane carb intake.

Took the car out for a drive today without tuning. All the little hesitations, inconsistancies, and issues with the TPI setup are long gone.

The miniram/lt1 setups are known to cure that problem that exists on both the SR, and TPI setup. I wanted a center mounted TB however.

-- Joe

<img src="http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/projects/singleplane/intake1.jpg">

The above picture was from a few nights ago moments after firing it up. The plumbing is complete now, and I just need to tune it, and modify the FPR to an AFPR. Total cost into the project including lines, gaskets, oil change (synthetic), dremel grinding discs, and so on was around $300.

It is managed by a '730/'749 running $58.

Maf would just be dumb on my setup. Oh wait, it was

 

Not for me, I don't like either. My HSR outflows both of them, combined

I didn't say your car would trap what 87_t/a does. I said it would go closer to 119-120. WHat size cam do you have in that 396?thanks!

 

My cam was an experimental cam. I say experimental because I had a guy design it for me. It is a Crane hydraulic roller with 230 deg intake duration and 224 exhaust duration. Lift is .565 on the intake and .510 on the exhaust. LSA is 114 degrees. The intake lobe is a Crane HIR lobe which is fairly aggressive. The exhaust is a HR3 lobe which is not. My goal was to maintain emission compliance (I run cats), keep my low and mid range torque and improve top end breathing. The cam seems to have done all of that but I have not been back to the dyno to verify.

There is a guy that I know that has an 85 vette with a 383 and the same AFR 195 heads as I do. His SR is not ported like mine. He runs a TPIS solid roller with 242 deg duration at .050" and 278 advertised duration. He has an auto with a 4200 stall and ran a 11.28 at 121 the same night I ran 114. He runs slicks and I ran worn out fire stones. He also runs a MAF with the 85 computer. There was another guy there that had an 85 with a MAF and a 434 and ran 10.7 at 127+.

I think if I keep racing this car, I need to consider a different cam. The TPIS 700-701 might just do it.

 

I have built hundreds of engines, unless a person builds around a
shelf cam there is room for improvement. all the bigger cam manufactures will grind whatever you want for very little extra cost. some of the bigger ones are a pain to get the right tech person thou. So try calling some of the smaller companys,
I like Cam Motion. good people great cams (all custom). I have had good luck with Reed Cams as well. I have heard that Bullet is good but ???? never used one.
I have had problems with Isky so I don't use them anymore.


the long and short of it is this, if you are going to the trouble of changing a camshaft, take the time to get the best one for your combination.

Geoff

yea I know I can't spell!

 

Hi Jason. I was recently wondering if you still have that Vette.

It's not that hard to convert to the MAF and retune your car. At the time you converted, the info on tuning the 165 was still quite limited. In fact, that's why you converted to the 7730 was to address tuning problems you had encountered (which were kind of unique to the MR at the time. There is a lot more knowledge today, so those tuning issues are no longer a problem, as well, you no longer have the MR.

 

Hey Glenn! Nice to hear from you. I have been lurking around here for a while and it seems that a lot has been done with the $6E. As you may rember my problems were specific to a lean tip in issue and intake backfiring with the Miniram. I may switch back as an experiment if I ever find the time.

It is more of a matter of returning my car back to an "un-chopped" condition.

 

You also had a manual, which makes for additional tuning challenges.

 

Just curious - did the cam pass smog? Any idea what the readings were?

Thanks

 

Idle
HC PPM 68
CO2% 14
CO% .57
O2% 1.04

2500 RPM
HC PPM 14
CO2% 15
CO% 0.00
O2% .13

Hope this helps!

 

Welcome back.. Where ya been?

-- Joe