I must say, I'm pretty disapointed with the tuning previously done. The owner was originally going to go with a 730 but at the time I couldn't help him so he sold it which brings us back to tuning with the 165 and a 6E mask.
His engine is a 383 with AFR 190's, headers-exhaust, 219 @.050, Super Ram, 24#, stock MAF, auto, 2400 stall TC, 10 bolt posi, NJ street legal.
So anyways, a guy I've come to hate had tried to help this friend of mine when I wasn't availible. The chip was aweful from my perspective and according to my friend this other guy just through a bunch of fuel in to get rid of some detected knock . When I find my power adaptor for the PP I'll do a full review of how not to tune a MAF thirdgen.
So I started fresh with the ARAP bin and imported the vette (aluminum head) main SA table, adjusted the min idle vs cts, fan on/off, rev limiter to 6400, PE spark adder vs RPM, and then doubled the max LV8 vs RPM table. After a little driving without any datalogging (my diacom isn't working) we added 4 degrees to the high flow part of the main SA table. That ended up being too much because it was pulling harder when he lifted slightly. So we kept going down with the timing until we ended up right where I had originally set it.
He was a bit disapointed with the low end pull but the TC was really tight for that combo. The engine was coming alive around 3500rpm but anything before that was so so.
All in all I'm pretty impressed with the flexability of not really having to worry about the fuel. The car will be dynoed in a week and I'll post the results here. It's just a base line, with some datalogging and a wideband, and day light (for checking plugs) it should come further along. I'm expecting high 12's with this tight TC and mild gearing. It's all about the TC since the governer is stock (shifts by itself at 4500rpm ). With a higher stall and manual shifting it'll be low 12's easy, sticky tires and 11's should be possible.... we'll just have to see.
Now about the tuning and what I changed. Can I just say that the stock ARAP mystifies me when it adds 9 degrees of timing at 3200rpm but only 1 degree everywhere else (1200,2000,4800). Seems stupid to me and changing that alone seems like the biggest improvement.
Would there be any interest in a super "S_ARAP"?

 

This Summer I installed a 395 cu in stroker ZZ4 motor into my '87 IROCZ. I have had some tuning issueing with vacuum leaks and dead electronics in the MSD distributor. After fixing the vacuum leaks and replacing the distributor, I have burned about 30 Eproms. Right now the drivibility is very good. However, I did not make the power that I thought that I should have on a chassis dyno. I pulled 340 RWHP and 370 ft-lbf. BTW: desktop dyno predicted 450 HP and 500 ft-lbf.

In programming and sorting thru alot of issues, such as, tip in accel & fuel, SA, PE vs RPM, PE vs coolant temp, cranking PW, I have changed many tables in the ARAP bin file.

Right now I'm running about 12.8 AFR at WOT above 4000RPM and am very satisfied with cold & hot starts, and the overall drivibility of the drivetrain. So I think I got a "sort of super" ARAP bin file for my car. But, of course, things could always be better, like more power.

 

Looks like DD2K was pretty close to reality on yours...450 FWhp, 340 RWHP Off a bit on torque though

Out of curiosity...did you tell DD2K you had a hyd roller cam? If so, I have heard that it is overly optimistic about hyd roller cams and you should select flat tappet and put in your cam's specs as written on the cam card.

 

I am tuning with the 6e right now and I am kind of confused as to how one would actually go about changing the PW at a given lv8 and rpm condition.

Is the MAF table the only way to do this or is there a table like in the 32B that specifies a PW?

BTW I understand most of the other tables you mentioned above better now that you mentioned them in context. Its hard to pick this all up from just reading the stickies. Thanks -- It'll help me this weekend.

 

As for the pulsewidth, I haven't looked into hard enough but the MAF scaler tables would be the most obvious. The MAF is used to measure the airflow. If you're using a stock MAF and your BLMs are ALL lower than 128 then increase your injector constants (example; 22# but put 23 if BLMs are all 120). For BLMs above 128, decrease the injector constants. You don't want to go TOO far like having 24# injectors and having the injector constant at 18#. Try replacing the o2 sensor and setting it back to the correct injector size.
Now if the BLMs are showing high in some parts, then it's time to tweak the MAF scaler tables. I don't know the way to calculate a correction value to the scalers but I bet doing BLM/128 would get you in the general area. The thing is.... stock MAFs shouldn't require any scaler changes. A modified MAF needs the changes, that's a no brainer. Removing the screen in a MAF will move the scaler.

Morley, don't hijack this thread .

Doc, what do you have the PE spark vs RPM table set with? Did you do pretty much what I did as a start? I also (like usual with a large cam) found it useful to advance the idle spark by a good 6 degrees. With the stock tables the car was drowning in fuel with a quick stop. I also tappered the MAF scaler at idle to lean it out a tad. I don't know if there is another way but this seened to help a lot.

 

I'm hijacking this thread! Take me to Cuba!

 

JPrevost,

There is much to write here, had a kinda bad and long day.

My theory on the BLMs is to evaluate different fuel injector constants until you get the BLMs from 130 max to down to 118 or whatever. When the BLMs are below 128, the ECM is taking fuel away from its normally calculated value for fuel. So, for those specific fuel trim cells (0 to 15) with a BLM value below 122, locate the MAF table that fits the air flow from scans, and reduce the values in that MAF table. Make sure it still blends well with the adjacent MAF tables. This will tend to raise the BLM value higher. Only make enough change to the MAF table to get the lower BLMs above 122. Then you are prefect enough. Its a joke to try to get all BLMs at 128, its not necessary. In fact, BLMs below 128 will ensure that no fueling correction are being made in PE mode. The ECM will add extra fuel to the PE PW equation if the ECM is adding fuel in at part throotle, that is, when the BLM value is above 128. However, the ECM will not subtract fuel in PE mode due to the fact that it is more dangerous to run lean at WOT than a bit rich. (At least, I know that my LS1 OBDII computer works this way.)

Timing, man thats a can of worms. I have started with the ARAP table and felt that it was to much timing, so I cut it back. Now I feel that I had false knock, so I am adding some timing back in. For a big cam, I think that more static timing is very favorable. So with 10* static timing, I do not need more timing at idle. I'm still at 20* in the SA table for idle as in the ARAP table. Also, in the middle ground of the SA table, I am about 4 degrees down from the ARAP table. And also, I'm running about the same total combined SA at WOT when looking at the regular SA table and the spark adder table at WOT.

 

ahhh, sounds familiar.. I'd like to see that .bin so I can see how the 'expert' does it....

 

Yeah that makes sense. I always kind of thought of the MAF tables as the only way of doing things. What you really want the MAF to do I think is to tell your engine how much fresh air is getting into the cylinders as well as having any corrections for large cam overlap built into its tables. I mean when you change cams I dont think its wrong to change the tables because you are going to be changing the actual amount of oxygen in the cylinders because the cam is more or less efficient than the last one that you had.

The only downsides to this I think are that the MAF tables influence more than just the fuel PW. I have read that they also have role in the sparc calculation.

 

Yep, the MAF tables effect alot more than just the PW equation. Any table with eng load (LV8) should be affected, this would include the spark table. But, if the MAF tables are brought in line to result in 128s for BLM (or close to that), I would expect that these other tables would function better as intended. This is my take on it, I could be wrong.

 

I would be interested in a Super ARAP bin file. I think the bin I am working on started out as an ARAP bin. That seemed to be the closest stock bin to what my TPIS bin file looked like.

I did the fan setting changes and I've been making some minor timing changes to get rid of a hot weather knock. Now that it's down into the 80's I can run the original file with no knock problems.

Since I seem to be running somewhat rich (108 BLMs) It looks like I am going to have to make some changes to the MAF scalar tables. From reading other posts I'm pretty sure I know what I need to do there.

I need to learn more about the PE spark adder and LV8 vs RPM tables and what they do and affect before I make any changes there....

I've been out of town for a couple of weeks and hopefully I'll get some time this weekend to work on the Camaro. I'm still playing with changes to the governor to get my shift points the way I want them.

I'm going to be switching to a heated O2 sensor at the same time. I will be doing some more datalogging with the new heated sensor before I go making any changes to the programming.

I'm also getting a couple of nasty codes that I have to figure out. One just started this week saying the EPROM is bad (code 51) and I've been running a Promninator for a couple of months now. Maybe the factory chip has come loose from the Prominator board...... Didn't seem to fit all that tight to begin with. The other code is the EGR (Code 32). Tearing apart the Edelbrock runners is the last thing I want to do at this time. I've had it apart twice in the last three months. I'm not looking forward to that pain in the rear again any time soon. Not to mention $60 in gaskets. Since I ported the plenum I have to use the Edelbrock gaskets on the bottom and Accel gaskets on top......... I hope it's just something came unplugged or a vacuum line fell off.......

 

So I just got my setup running on all 8 cylinders (sticking injector fixed) and I got the injector constant down to 16-17 to get all the BLM's low (112 lowest). it runs ok but I think it needs more timing. Somehow I think this is going to take alot of time with the emulator to get the injector constant back to 20 where it should be seeing as how the MAF tables will change so much to make up for the 20 percent change I gave the injector constant.

I have a question though, I noticed that the cells listed in the datalogs seem to corespond to both load and rpm. Is there any way to look at the cell number and say "aha -- thats XXXX RPM and XX LV8"? Or do the cells apply to a number of load and rpm combinations?

 

The fuel trim cells have MAF flow and RPM boundaries. I will list the actual boundaries that I have for the ARAP bin via TunerCat tonite or tomorrow. You can change these boundaries, which is what I did recently.