Ok, what do ya think? I am putting on 350 TPI heads on my 89 350. I also will be adding a ZZ4 Intake and a TBI adapter thats almost a inch thick. I will also be putting on a open air element. Are there any mods that I should be made aware of before I tackle this? I know about the open air thread so I got that covered and I got a manual for the heads so thats covered. My thing is the ZZ4 Intake. I have read that it is a good intake but will I have enough clearance with an open air AND a TBI adapter thats a inch big?

 

One thing that I'm SURE at least a few people are going to tell you, your gonna need lots of CHIP WORK. Changing the heads on that beast are gonna make you computer wonder where the heck it is. I highly recommend checking out the DIY PROM board to find our exactly what your going to be looking at, or at least make sure you are aware that your gonna need to take it somewhere to be tuned. Just a heads up...good luck with that thing!

Bruce (90RS305)

 

I already had a chip replaced awhile ago to a 350 chip. So swaping the heads is actually putting almost the right heads on that should be there according to the chip. I figured I would have to take it somewhere for a tune. Thanks though for reminding me!

 

I'm pretty sure that the zz4 inake is a high rise dual plane "think Performer RPM" So your going to have to poke a hole in the hood. My brother is running the gm performance parts carbed vortec intake. It's slightly lower than an rpm, but he still has to use a drop base aircleaner with a 2" element and it just clears. TBI's are shorter than the carb he's using, but your spacer will more than make up for the difference. There are some thinner adapters out there, but your going to have a hard time making everthing fit.

 

CRAP! That sucks. I was hoping not to have to do that! If I cut the hood would water ruin the filter? I wonder why that was not mentioned in the Intake sticky. That would have been good info to know before I bought one...oh well. I guess I'll have to buy a daytona style hood when I get back from deployment.

 

You are still going to need chip work. A new "350" chip is nothing more than a magical description of somthing that is not colibrated right for your combo. You will need to data log and burn many many chips to get it down. Any mod on a TBI set-up should be accompanied with chip work. Speed Density systems do not learn or adapt on the fly. You need to change every parameter to make it work in harmony with your combo.

 

Since I dont have the $ to buy my own equipment to do this, would local shops be able to? THX

 

Only shops that dyno tune. Most big cities have at least one speed shop that will dyno tune.

 

Do you know how costly that may be?

 

Well, I was looking into some of the equipment needed to burn my own chips and it looks like it would be well over $175 for most of the stuff. To me, it seems like it would be cheaper if I took it to a shop and got it done. Has anyone had it done at a shop? How much would it cost at a shop?

 

You can get up and running for less than 110$ with moate's new burner and adapter that lets you use flash chips that don't need the UV-eraser. Chip burning isn't easy, it takes time, and lots of effort, if your not commited to learning about it then it's a pain. With that said, a custom tune will probabaly run between 250 and 1000$ Depending on what the shop does. On the other side, you can get the chip burning equipment and burn off every 350 chip ever produced and try them all out. Then as you learn about chip tuning you can start diving deeper and deeper into making changes. With very little time and effort you can learn to start with any bin produced, then change the "fuel pressure" and Timing all in the chip, you can leave all the more complicated things for later. Seems well worth it to me.

As for the intake, please don't cut a hole in the hood, it's so *******. Do some trial fitting and measureing and see if it will fit, you might be surprised.

 

Thanks so much for the info. I will look into the prom sticky and see about doing it myself. If it would cost up to $1000 there is no way I could do that right now! I just need to find a chip burner that dont need that UV-eraser. 1 last question, would my stock chip require a UV-eraser? The chips that dont require a UV-eraser are they special chips? These questions might be answeared in the prom burning sticky but I will be looking at that tonight....about to go to church right now.

 

I'm not sure if the sticky as been updated with the new hardware and chips that are available now. Your going to need a 24 to 28 pin adapter that moates sells and his 80 dollar burner, this burner will not burn the 24 pin 2732 UV erasable chips your ecm takes, it will read them though. You won't need to burn the 24 pin chips if you use the flash 28 pin (sf512 or similiar) chips that I suggested. These erase instantly with the burner and rarely have any programing erros unlike the crappy 2732 chips. Here are some links. I forgot to tell you there is some soldering required to replace your stock chip socket with an idustry standard receptical, moates offers a service if you don't like soldering. If you buy everything below your up to 130$, there are some extra's there you don't "need" but will pay for themselfs in ease of operation. You can build the 24 to 28 pin adapter, and the ZIF isn't required but these things are really nice to have.

I would have to say that chip burning ranks up there with headers, and even a cam swap, becaue without tuning your headers and cam swap won't make anywhere near optimal power. Just being able to turn off the speed limiter and adjust the electronic "fuel Pressure" better known as "injector constant" or in the tbi world "BPW egr off" for a universally lean or rich condition is priceless. Ohh yeah and one more thing, your going to need a scaning cable, you can build one pretty easily or they sell them on ebay for 30-40$. This will allow you scan you car and see whats going on before you start changing things in your chip. So in theory you had the right price to begine with but trust me it's still worth it!!!!

http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=37

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=48

http://www.moates.net/product_info.p...products_id=39

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?
cPath=26&products_id=44

http://www.winaldl.webhop.net/

 

Ok. I saw a scanner that came with a cable on ebay and it looks like I might have to burn a chip. But, just to play on the other side of the field for a moment, could I put on the heads, intake and adapter plate and it still run ok for a few weeks? Thats all I need it to do right now. And there is nothing in stone to say that I would be able to get EVERYTHING Before I deploy here in 3 weeks. Too much of a time crunch. I guess I should have thought about that before I decided about the intake change.

 

Craig (moates.net) offeres a usb burner and a flash chip adaptor. The total cost shipped is like $125. That's for everything you need to program 1 gazillion chips for yourself. The software is free, tunerpro.
The tuning basics are rather simple. It takes only a day with a scanner like winaldl to get a bin that's over 90%. It only takes me that same time to get 95%, the rest is driver preference and compromises but we won't go into that right now.
If you've got a cam, you need to more your VE curve up to a higher RPM. You'll probably need to run more timing at idle too. Those kinds of things have been understood since the days of tuning mechanical advance distributers, nothing new, only it's a lot messy with electronics.
If you can't make an ALDL cable from the plans that Joby has on his Winaldl website then you can buy them for like $25-$40 on ebay and other websites.

 

What is the BIN? If I get the USB burner I will need the cable and a chip that does not require UV erase AND an adapter right? All this should run me under $200? USB burner ($125) ALDL cable ($40) Chip ($20?) Now is that EVERYTHING? You guys have been great with helping me out here! I hope to see a good deal improvement.

??Anyone got a ball park idea of what I should see in HP after the chip burn?? (350 engine W/ 350 TPI heads, ZZ4 Intake, 1" TBI to 4 barrel carb adapter, 55lb injectors, cat back exhaust) I think that is everything. Down the road is headers, twin turbo or super charger/blower, bigger injectors, cowl type hood, cam, maybe a engine rebuild.


EDIT: Is this the right cable?> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Would I need this?> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

 

I got the answear to BIN as I looked it up.
Are these some of the componets I will need? The adapter I was not sure how that ties into it. I wanted the new chip that did not require UV and I think the below one is the one I want.

http://www.moates.net/product_info....&products_id=37

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=48

http://www.moates.net/product_info....&products_id=39

 

Figure this would be a good time to put this thread in a more appropriate forum...

 

Yeah it kinda went this way after awhile. I did not intend for it to go this way though. It was more of a TBI question than a PROM question to begin with.

 

Ok. Once again as I need to know ASAP so I can do the chip burning this weekend when I do the other stuff. Are these some of the componets I will need? The adapter I was not sure how that ties into it. I wanted the new chip that did not require UV and I think the below one is the one I want. If I get the USB burner I will need the cable and a chip that does not require UV erase AND an adapter right? All this should run me under $200? USB burner ($125) ALDL cable ($40) Chip ($20?) Now is that EVERYTHING? You guys have been great with helping me out here! I hope to see a good deal improvement.

http://www.moates.net/product_info....&products_id=37

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=48

http://www.moates.net/product_info....&products_id=39

Is this the right cable?> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

Would I need this?> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...TRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

 

Those links are working but here's the deal:
Moates.net , get the Burn1, the 0.6" spacing G2 adaptor, and an AT29C256 chip.
Both of those cables you linked to on ebay are the same. The later being one that has a built in LED it looks to check stored codes when you don't have a laptop handy (hard to believe that'll ever happen once you start burning).
As for the help, there are a few TBI guys on this board that can help you tune your car, it isn't impossible but it isn't easy, it's just work. You get out of it as much as you put in.

 

lol, no biggie man. I'd pass out from exhaustion from counting how many threads on the TBI board end with prom stuff! Good luck dude...

 

Just ordered all the stuff from moates and the LED thing from ebay as it was cheaper. Should have it in time for my project this weekend. Hopefully my finger heals up by then, Ijust slamed it in my camaro door about 10 MINS ago...it hurts, it hurts!!