O.K., I posted this message in the engine swap board and I think I should have posted it here. So here goes.

I have completed a swap. I converted a 1987 Camaro RS 2.8 Automatic into a 355 TPI 5 Speed.

The engine has the following:

1 A complete Edlebrock TPI Intake induction system (aluminum TPI Performer center-bolt heads; Performer TPI intake manifold; 1000CFM-58mm Throttle Body; and HI-FLO Runners).

2 30 pound Accel injectors and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

3 Complete Edlebrock Exhaust (3" tubular exhaust including tubular headers; and cat-back system).

4 The cam is a Crower Special Grind Roller with: 213/221 @.50, Lobe Sep at 114, with .506/.525 advertised lift.

5 Pistons are forged ultra light weight flat tops by Diamond Pistons; they have low friction Diamond rings; Forged Crower I-Beam Connecting rods; Crower 1.5:1 Roller Rockers; and a Forged Scat knife-edged crank (one-piece rear main seal). The compression is at or about 10.1:1.

6 The differential is the old peg leg from the V-6. YES, yes I know, I will be changing it soon - but right now it's got 3.73:1 Richmond Gears. It's being fed through a CenterForce Dual Friction clutch assembly.

7 The car has all of its smog components and all of the after market components, (with the exception of the cam - but no one will ever know) have CARB number so I’m hoping that I could get it smogged.

Anyway, I got a custom chip burned from FastChip.com. The guy who did it went on and on about how crappy my Accel 30# injectors are and that I'll have problems and that I should have bought Ford injectors, etc., etc. So before he agreed to charge me $350 to do the chip, he gave me a warning that it may run either rich or lean on account of how crappy the injectors are.

Having no choice, I said do it. Got the chip, put it in and the car started right up, didn't stall, ran - ALL WAS AND IS GOOD. I drove it a good 20 miles from the shop to my house without any problems; although the idle seemed a bit high - it's supposed to be around 850 but felt higher. I couldn't be sure what it was because the tac is from the old V-6 and I was getting weird readings.

The only problem I have is that it does run a bit rich (black smoke spews out of the tail pipes when I press the gas - that means it’s rich right?). I'm also getting an error code, I believe it's 36. Something about Mass Airflow Burn Off Circuit malfunction.

My mechanic said that maybe the perameters were off from the prom and that's why it's giving me that code. Is this possible since its a Mass Air Sensor and not a MAP sensor?

Could a vacuum leak cause this problem, because the seal between the front of the Mass Air Sensor and the air intake that mounts to the air filters is not the best, I don't have the clips so it's currently being held together with electrical tape? Or could it be the MASS Air Sensor itself? My mechanic told me that the sensor should be good, or that he checked the sensor and it was fine. Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, can I dial in the right fuel air mixture without a dyno tune? If so, HOW? What do I need to get so that I can fine tune the prom myslef, and is this adviseable?

Any suggestions with regard to any of the above will be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

Thanks.

 

I've been running Accel 24 lb injs for abt a year now with no issues, although I've seen where others have had problems.
On the prom, I entered 24 for the inj size and it ran rich. Eventually setteled with 26.5 for the inj size on the prom. Had the same problem with the LT1 injs I originally had in there. Moral of the story is; inj size on the prom doesn't necessarily have to match the injs, it"s just a good starting point. BTW; I'm using the $6e mask which has no adjustable fueling table.

I can't remember what all will cause a code 36, first things I'd check would be the MAF, the MAF elec connector for loose/dirty pins, and the MAF relays(there's a MAF power relay and a burn-off relay) and their connections.

A air leak between the MAF and the aircleaner isn't too big a deal, other than it would be sucking in unfiltered air. Any air leaking into the induction system after the maf is "unreported" and will cause a problem.

The only way you can tune the eng (other than have someone else do it) is to use a program/hardware that can monitor what the ecm is doing. A laptop, some freeware off the net, and a interface cable will get you started.

Then you will need to be able to tell the ecm what to do differently. This usually means acquiring some hardware/software for burning your own chips.

Swapping chips will mean modifying the memcal by installing a zif socket.
(There are other methods but adding a zif socket is the cheapest way I know of) The zif socket will allow easy chip replacements, and you'll be installing/removing lots of chips. (I quite counting at 350 chip swaps)

Last but not least, a wide-band O2 meter will allow you to tune the ecm while it is in "open loop".

Oh yeah, black smoke means really rich!!

 

Thanks for the reply, but most of what you said went WAY over my head. Like what's a zif socket?

Isn't there some program I can buy to help me make the changes that I need? Preferably something that comes with all the necessary explanations and cables?

And what's a wide-band 02 meter, how does it work, where would I get one and could I use it to lean out the mixture permanently, or will I have to set the mixture each time I turn the car on? Plus, will setting the mixture in open loop work or carry over when the car goes into closed loop? This is what sucks about Fuel Injection - you would never be stuck like this on a carb.

I don't really want to mess with the other parameters of the Prom as they seem to be working fine. I'm sure FastChip knew what it was doing there. So I guess I don't really need a Prom burning program/hardware per se. I just need to dial in the proper air fuel mixture. What that entails I HAVE NO IDEA!

As for the Burn-off circuit, I looked at the TPI Swappers guide and it said that the Mass Airflow relay charges the element in the sensor to "burn off" any debris that might be stuck to it. So it doesn't seem to be a big deal. Although if you or anyone else knows more about this, please let me know. I'll probably change the Mass Air relay and this should alleviate the problem. I hope.

Let me know if you can. Thanks.

 

zif= zero insertion force. It's a socket for the eeprom chip. Instead of having to press the chip into a regular socket (which can only be done a couple of times before the little pins get bent/broken), a zif socket has a little lever that allows the chip to be dropped into the socket. Once it's in the socket, you move a lever over and the chip pins are gripped tightly. Basically it allows the same chip to be installed and removed over and over without damage.



*Isn't there some program I can buy to help me make the changes that I need? Preferably something that comes with all the necessary explanations and cables?*

Not that I know of. Your best bet is read all the stick posts at the top of the messages in this forum. They will answer most if not all your questions. Sounds like you spent a lot of money on high dollar eng parts. You don't want to skimp on the ecm tuning. It sounds a lot more intimidating than it really is.

The wide band O2 accurately measures the fuel-air mixture over a wide range.
It doesn't control anything. It's just a piece of test equip. I built my own using plans from the net. They are available to purchase. You'll have to look around the net for them.

To dial-in the air-fuel mixture, you'll have to burn a chip. You can make small changes my adjusting the fuel press (which can cause other problems), but if you can see black smoke out the tail pipe, you need some major adjustments.

 

Well, you would be stuck like that on a carb if you had no screwdriver. Just as you are stuck without the proper tools for modifying fuel injection. But, the rewards of learning to tune are very broad.

To do this, you'll need PROM burning hardware and software. The software I'd recommend is TunerPro by Mark Mansur (http://tunerpro.markmansur.com). As to the hardware, I'd have to recommend (as will many others) that you take a visit to Moates.net (http://www.moates.net). There you'll be able to find chip adapters, chip burners and sweet emulation equipment for when you learn even more.

There is much info here for you to learn about this stuff. With some effort and time and practice you can go from to ..

 

One thing you might try -----

Since you've added headers, there is a real good chance that your original one-wire O2 sensor (which is also called a "NARROW BAND" or "NB" sensor) is not taking the car into closed loop. It is very common with headers, especially at idle as well as at cruising speeds in cooler weather.

I would convert over to the heated three-wire NB sensor before doing anything else.

That being said, a mail order tune will NEVER work as good as what you can get if you buy the prom tuning gear mentioned above and learn to do it yourself!

 

WOW! After reading your messages I went trolling around on the boards here and you guys are WAY TOO KNOWLEDGEABLE! It's daunting. I don't think I could ever learn this stuff, or if I do, it'll take me a very long time.

I also went to Moates as suggested and I was like a kid in a candy store with a credit card. I didn't get anything because I wasn't too sure what to get. I wrote the guy an e-mail and I'm waiting for his response. I also took your advice and got that TunnerPro; what an incredible program.

However, before I start tampering with the Prom, I thought I'd call up the guys I got the Prom from, Fastchip. They told me that all I have to do to get the fuel mixture right, or very close, is do a "block learn." He basically wants me to take the car back to my shop and have them drive it under different conditions while connected to a scan tool. They're supposed to drive it at different speeds and RPMs and record the readings accordingly. Then, I'm supposed to send the readings and the Prom back to Fastchip and they'll make the necessary adjustments. It's probably what all you guys already know how to do yourselves.

As for the mail order Prom, I have to say that it's still amazing how they were able to burned me one that works without even seeing the car. Before I got their Prom, the car was running like you wouldn't believe. It wasn't really running at all so much as it was sputtering and then dying. I wasn't supposed to drive it and I wouldn't have been able to even if I wanted. I thought my shop was lying to me when they said that all I need was a Prom tune. I thought that there's no way a tune is going to fix what's wrong with this car.

But after I got their Prom - NIGHT AND DAY! It's amazing how much that computer controls everything. It was a totally different car.

Anyway, THANK YOU GUYS FOR ALL THE ADVICE. Once I get the Block learn done, I'll probably get all the gear you're all talking about and start tinkering. It'll be fun if nothing else (unless I cause a fire).

I'd also like to get the plans for that wideband scanner - I'll look around on the web for it.

But one question, how can I convert my single wire O2 sensor to a 3 wire?

 

to convert your O2 sensor...

buy a 3 wire sensor (or a 4 wire, but thats an extra wire for the same function as a 3 wire sensor)

your O2 wire is probably purple.

My 3 wire sensor had red, purple, and black wires. the red goes to a 12V ignition switched source. black gets grounded to the frame/block. Purple gets spliced to the old O2 sensor wire (cut the connector off the old 1 wire sensor and use that so you don't have to cut your engine harness).

Of the two wires that are not purple, I've been told it doesn't matter which goes to 12V and which gets grounded, just in case the sensor you buy doesn't have red and black wires.

stock wiring:
engine harness-------o2 connector-----purple----1wire sensor
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cut here^

New wiring:
ground-------------black------------|

O2connector------purple------------| 3 wire sensor

12V ignition--------red--------------|
switched source