[QUOTE=skerlock;4823475]Great explanation.

Thanks...

This is why Rbob says to try and cover as much of the tables as possible.
Go up hills in low gear, drag the breaks, and such to try and get the learn to cover as much of the map as possible. Then, you guess at the rest, and hope you're right.

Because it is telling the ECM to push more fuel, CORRECT !

The speed-density system has no MAF, so it uses MAP, RPM, and VE to guess ( hopefully correctly ) at the amount of air flowing into the engine.
After that, then you get the injector and fuel pressure flow problems.

 

OK, something similar to what I did when I boosted fuel pressure.
Best advice, go back to the last BIN that worked before the fuel pressure boost.
Calculate the correct injector constant for the pressure change, and change ONLY that !
Run some logs and see. Massage that constant until you get results very similar to what you had before, then proceed. One thing at a time, else it gets REAL confusing.

 

In my case, the converter stalls around 1300, so I stand on the breaks and the loud pedal at the same time. Makes bad noises as the frame twists, so don't stay in it too long.

 

1988-91 3.8 V6 SFI “C” LN3

See Also: 16198264

Buick LESABRE
Buick ELECTRA
Buick REATTA
Buick RIVIERA
Buick REGAL

Oldsmobile TORONADO
Oldsmobile DELTA 88
Pontiac BONNEVILLE

Look for the orange connector, dead give away it is a '8253.

Note that we have them on the shelf for EBL users. Along with the C3 TBI ECMs and the '7730s.

RBob.

 

Rbob,
Is the EBL ready for that ECM yet? I didn't see anything on your site yet? This would be perfect for my Turbo buick I think, since I have nitrous, and a shift light, and a WBo2, everything that was on the Chevy TBI w/EBL classic. I would need to get a 3 bar MAP I think though.

 

The EBL SFI-6 Flash hasn't been released yet. It is being worked on, although one could use it as it is. The 1-bar MAP option with a 3-bar MAP has just been added. This is where when running a 2 or 3-bar MAP can also run an optional 1-bar MAP sensor. When not in boost the ECM uses the 1-bar MAP, then switches to the 3-bar once in boost.

This is due to a 3-bar MAP not being too accurate under 50 KPa, along with the decreased resolution of the 3-bar. Provides much better drive-ability when driving around town.

High freq MAF code is going to be added next (can use LT1 through LSx MAFs) . Then some 'other' stuff that TB's can use...

RBob.

 

That's awesome, especially with the MAF. I guess one could go with SD or stay with the MAF with the EBL. When it is available, I'll be getting one. I am assuming the WUD is the same?

I have been searching around a little for info on those ECM's, but not much luck here on TGO. I'll need to repin, or change the plugs, to adapt to this ECM?

As always, your the man!!

 

Seems a bit rich. How does exhaust look? I idkle OL at 13.8/1 abd tailpipe is clean. Put a hanky over pipe and see if it turns black? Do you idle OL? there is an option to lock OL idle as well as OL < a set MPH. I have mine set to flip CL at 15 mph.

If you idle OL then the idle A/F I believe is determined by the OL fuel table at that MPM/MAP cell.

 

what he said, it may like OL idle better. I ran mine like that for a bit, eventually I got it to idle CL, but after everything else was situated. sidenote, it was right around 13.8-14.2 AFR with idle, any leaner and it would surge.

 

If the plan works out you can go either MAF or SD, or both. With both, the MAF will be used during steady state with SD taking over during transitions. Note that the stock GN/TTA MAF is low freq and isn't planned to be supported.

The ECM is like the '7730 in form factor. Will need to re-pin along with needing the third connector shell. The other two shells are the same between this ECM and the stock '7148 ECM. We will have the third shell/combs available.

The WUD is similar to the one for the EBL P4. It will be updated for use with the EBL SFI-6.

RBob.

 

That is great. My MAF has one screen, if you remember many months back, I was having issues with one that was screenless, and picked the one up I have. But for the EBL SFI-6, I would pick up an LS MAF, the are pretty cheap, and probably get it running with that at first, the try out running it both ways. There are 2 u-pull-it junk yards 10 minutes from me, so i may be able to find the ECM, along with the required connectors. But what is great is you have it all available already! I guess any tuning and set-up questions should remain in this thread?

 

Increasing your fuel pressure normally requires an increase in this tables values,

INJ-Injector Correction Offset

This is due to the increased injector response time with higher fuel pressure.

 

I dont see this one : INJ-Injector Correction Offset

Inj - MPG Injector Flow Constant Its at 60.47


The tables raised when I entered the New BPC Entries.

The Tables are starting to balance...got some low speed stumbles im trying to figure out.

Thanks Scott

 

Probably be best in it's own thread. There are significant differences between the P4 and EFI-6 EBL's and the TBI EBL Flash/Classic.

Note that the SFI-6 EBL install is identical to the EBL P4 install. Can review that page to see what it will entail. Actually, it isn't quite identical, there won't be a cylinder select jumper. It will be hardwired for a 6 (obviously).

RBob.

 

RBob, I was reading over the P4 info on your site. I was trying to familiarize myself with it. I guess when someone else buys one of the first P4's, or you, will start a thread and we can all direct questions there about? I don't want to crowd this thread since it is TBI EBL.

 

Two more tables that need adjustment (decreased in this case) due to increased pressure,

AE- MAP PW
&
AE-TPS PW

Those may help w/acceleration stumble.

 

Ok, they both function in Delta and add more fuel So, when i'm in Open Loop is when theses values are being used. Right? With that whats a good starting value for the increase and do I do that globally?

Scott

I didnt see it in Tables and Functions
Still cant locate it..: INJ-Injector Correction Offset

Im blind in 1 eye cant see out of the other

 

Hello Everyone.....
Just getting started and have a few questions........
Jumping between Documents and websites trying to consolidate information so that it makes sense......
From what I have read... and trying to understand.. for a good VE learn using an NB I need...
HiWay - Min MPH set to 255 (to keep in Closed loop)
EGR - CTS Enable Threshold set to 150 (to Disable)and vacuum disconnected and plugged
CCP - CTS Enable Threshold set to 150 (to Disable) Not running A CCP
In the areas that the VE Learn cannot hit... do I try and raise the values in the VE Table graphs to match the surrounding areas? (this is the smoothing that I am reading about?)
Now on to SA Tables
On the Dynamicefi.com website Document "Tuning Part 2"
For Iron heads to use the SA tables from the EBL_F_TB2.BIN
SA - Main
SA - Extended
My starting BIN was the EBL_F_2011.BIN
If I use the SA tables from the EBL_F_TB2.BIN will I need to change any other SA tables or any other settings?
I am running a non lock-up TH 400 I believe I read that the SA - TCC Locked Retard table is set to all zero's... Is this correct and does this disable the TCC functions?
Cold start.. I saw somewhere and I now cannot find it... My cold start is Very rich and is loading up the motor. (gas smell/black smoke) and does not Idle very well.... I have to give it throttle until it clears up... about a minute at 1500 rpm's. then it will settle down.
Where do I start to look for this issue?
Thanks
Cruz

 

There are a handful of EBL P4's out there now. Although I don't believe that any are in a 3rd gen f-body yet. I do know of one going into a 350 TPI set up swapped into a different vehicle.

RBob.

 

EBL automatically smoothens. To can smooten further in TP if you like.

cold start? I will guess choke is OK. If not choke tables can be modified. When choke times out there are OL coolant compensation tables to adjust.

 

Once you get some decent VE Learns flashed in, use the graph function of Tuner Pro. If the areas that can't be learned via BLM mode differ greatly from the surrounding areas, then push/pull them into place. Keep the general shape of the VE table correct when doing this.

It also helps when at WOT to keep an eye on the O2 sensor value, along with the possibility of detonation.

The ebl_f_2011 calibration is for an L05 engine. This being a swirl port head has low spark timing. The base calibrations ebl_f_tb2 & ebl_f_pt2 has timing tables set up for the non-swirl port heads ('416s on a 305).

So use the main/extended SA table that match the heads that are on the engine.

TH400: zero'ing out the TCC spark retard table is correct. Note that the EBL can control the electric kick down of the TH400. Pick one of the calibrations that are for the TH400 and copy ALL of the TCC tables/parameters over to your calibration.

I think that the TH400 TCC set up for kick down is also in part 2 of the into to tuning page.

Cold start; if the VE Learn is lowering the VE in the low speed areas, then cold start will also lean out some. Can also tweak this table:

Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS

Although if you go too far the engine may not start. So be sure to round robin through the cal banks on the EBL. This is so you can back up a tune or two if the engine won't start. Can then switch back to the current bank/calibration.

RBob.

 

There will be one installed in less than a week..i can hardley wait..

 

When adjusting the Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS Table. The values are all Negative(-) is that subtracting fuel?

Scott

 

good question. what value is 20d C in that mult table?

 

A lower AFR value is richer.

RBob.

 

Be careful with that !
The smoothing tends to try to move adjacent cells to "smooth" the transitions, which appears to make sense, but....
I see the smoothing also reduces the learn correction in the cell that was learned.
( sounds confusing )

For me lately, I use no smoothing for a learn, ( set smooth value to zero ) accept what the learn gives me, and then try to guess at what would have been learned in cells missed, and at the fringes.
Say 2000 at 50 map raises by 4 points, 2000 at 60 was raised by 3, but 2000 at 55 was not learned at all. I'll raise 2000 at 55 by hand 3 points, leaving the 50 and 60 alone.
I found that auto-smoothing would tend to also lower the 50 map by a point, and methinks I don't want that.
Now, if 2000 at 50 was raised 4, and 2000 at 60 was lowered 3, I leave it alone and run another learn on it, even though it "looks" wrong, it may not *be* wrong.

 

I picked up an 8253 ECM today, with the plugs. It was remanned. I love the u-pull-its! Now to locate a clear ECM diagram! I am getting ready for you RBob! hahaha, I am very excite! lol

:edit: I think I found the right pin-outs. now to make a conversion chart, lol.

 

Doober, I noticed in your post showing the WUD that the CALPAK malf is lit up. When not running a CALPAK can use a 1K 1/4W resistor in it's place. Won't give limp mode, but will eliminate the malf error AND set the injector firing rate to alternating.

Bend then cut the resistor leads to about 3/8" long. The resistor goes between pins 12 & 16 of the CALPAK socket.

Then cut a piece of lead to about 3/8" long and bend it into a tight U shape. That goes between pins 7 & 8.

Here is a picture of it.

RBob.

 

Nice I'll keep my eye out for when the threads are started for this. There are alot of retrofits around, and your products are making it easier then ever for guys like me.

 

Interesting... are you saying the CALPAK doesn't need to be used? Alternating injectors may help it idle in CL

*edit*
I think the picture you're talking about is the one I posted from the DynamicEFI site.

 

Hi,
My Ve tables are doing really well. Ive got a handle on my cold start via the
Open Loop - AFR Multiplier vs CTS Table. I have one small area flat spot to lean out at around 30 - 50 KPH at1500 Rpm or so.

Ive noticed my Knock sensor has kick off a few times. I am nervous about playing with the spark tables so id like some guidance please. I am running 3.5 degrees advanced on the initial timing. What additional info is needed?

I do have my Charcoal canister and EGR off for tuning.
Not sure if this helps:





1988 1/2 Ton 4 W/D Suburban
383 Stroker (Roller)
Performer Edelbrock Manifold
670 CFM Holley TBI
3" Exhaust No Cat(shhhh), Flow Master 40
190 LPH In-tank Fuel Pump 21 PSI
EBL (Dynamic EFI) Computer

 

If the battery is disconnected will the EBL default back to the last bank set?

Scott

 

Yes, it defaults to the last selected bank.

//RF

 

The CALPAK is optional, but pins 7 & 8 should be jumped together. That sets the injectors to fire alternately on each plug firing. Un-jumped the injectors fire together on every other plug firing.

I didn't realize that was the picture from the site. Which I removed the CALPAK to force an error for illustration.

RBob.

 

will ebl flash work for a crossfire 305 or 350 ?

 

For starters, search for member "Grumpy" ( now deceased ) and read and understand all you can.
Pay special attention to his comment that too little advance you buy gasoline and spark plugs. Too much and you buy internal engine parts.
Knock counts by themselves don't tell you much. How often ? How long was the log ?
A count every 15 minutes I don't worry about. 200 in three seconds gets my attention real fast !

 

I have read that the kick-down is controlled by EBL on the TH400 4 speed tranny.

What options in the EBL if any are there on the TH700-R4. Ive read all over and dont see an option. I know about the cable attached to the TBI.

If I'm at highway speed 60+ and floor it the tranny kicks down at too high RPM as far as I'm concerned. Reeving 4800 rpm....

Short of full peddle I get a good small incremental kick-down.

Scott

 

The kick down on a 700R4 is controlled by the governor and line pressure. The line pressure is controlled by the TV cable attached to the TB.

The governor has springs and weights. Hit a u-pull-it and grab one from a truck. They will shift at a lower RPM.

Of course make sure that the TV cable is adjusted properly. This is important to the life of the transmission.

The only thing in the 700R4 the ECM controls is the TCC lockup.

RBob.

 

Thanks BOB. I This is one heck of a learning curve. All good so far. I thought I knew allot about what I drive, This has been a humbling experience.

Scott

 

How many different governers are there? My current trans is from when the truck had a v6, and from what I understood it cwuses a higher RPM shift point.

 

Doober, is it shifting too high, or low? There are a few different ones. I had a chart somewhere on the available goveners for the 700r4 and the 200-4r. I would have to search around.

 

Well until I can get a trans built or a new replacement it won't matter too much because the current trans doesn't have a lot of holding power during shifts (slips while shifting, but holds fine once it's all the way into the next gear). I was just wondering how many there are, I would probably be looking at 5000-5500rpm with the current engine.

 

Hi Folks,

May i jump in? I just recieved my EBL P4 I would like to know What to do to set it up on my lappy? I found the 30005 Bin file that i would like to start with...what XDL file do i use in TP/RT? There are 2 on the disk. Also do i keep the ADX file i had from the old SAUJP that i was using? Thanks, general set up tips would be great... I cant wait to get started......GTA

 

The CD should auto-install with the Windows installer. If not, all of the files are also on the CD in the other folder (can't recall the folder name at the moment). Can just drag and drop these into a folder on the laptop.

With the auto install a shortcut to the WUD is created on the desktop. A program group is created as 'EBL P4 Flash.' In that group will be links to the documents, WUD, and the list of calibrations.

You want to use the XDF file from the CD (should only be one). Pick a calibration from the list that most closely matches the engine/transmission. Read it into TP and make whatever changes are required (injector size & displacement as the first to set).

Be sure to save it. Then flash it in once the rest of the install is completed.

The ADX file should be OK with the P4 Flash. The majority of the ALDL information is correct, but not all. The items such as PW, SA, RPM, MPH, MAP, TPS, all are correct. Once into flags and such they may not be.

Once you get the exterior comm cable installed can then connect the WUD & EBL. Note that when you plug the USB cable into the laptop it will request drivers. The auto install will put them on the laptop, otherwise point the driver install at the CD.

Then lower the latency setting for the driver. Easy to do, there are instructions for this on the CD along with on the web site. When doing this the assigned COM port will also be shown. Select that in the WUD.

The WUD saves all of the set up information so the next time it is started that info is reloaded.

RBob.

 

RBOB, hi

Thanks for the reply, I have the bin i want in TP/RT it is 30005 close to my L98 Auto.
I have changed the Inj size to my current #24's. Now the stupid question HOW to i flash it to the EBL P4? Once the EBL is installed in the car and the cable is connected do i just 'Upload" the bin to the EBL like i used to with my Ostrich? And i would also like to ask, I currently have a Innovate WB that is hard wired into my stock ECM and i am able to have live WB data ...the wire is now sitting in F14, will this work for me or will i be needing to move things?? Thanks GTA....

OOps forgot to mention i see 2 XDL files one has the word ..ADV attached at the end is this the one to use?? Thx

 

For flashing and using the WUD, see part 1 of the Intro to Tuning on our web site. Second half of that part covers the WUD. The first half covers using TP to make changes to the calibration (worth a look-see).

For the WB, need to move the wire from F14 to the terminal strip on the EBL board. Just connect it to channel 0. The What's Up Display help explains setting up a user device and setting it in the preferences dialog. That doc also covers flashing and a host of other things.

XDF file: yes, there are two on the CD. Forgot that we had split it so that one has all entries (the one with _ADV for advanced) and the other has the most used entries. Can use either one. The calibration document shows which entries are in the basic version of the XDF file.

RBob.

 

I may have missed this before... are you planning on anything to control the electronic transmissions? I'd love something to control a 4L60E or 4L80E... $700+ for one is a little more than I'm ready to spend on one.

 

It's in the game plan...

RBob.

 

I thought there were stand alone controlers available?

 

There are, but they're quite pricey, cheapest I remember seeing is $600-700+.
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