That is the calibration resistor for the sensor.

The stock TBI MAP port is the rear center port between the fuel lines.

The VE Learn is set for a max of +- 12% change. In BLM mode this is also limited by how far the BLM is allowed to move.

RBob.

 

There is a hard plastic grommet/sleeve mid-cable that is re-enforcement for body pass-through.

 

What xch3no2 said about the round thing. My reference to the calibration resistor is the protrusion on the main connector.

RBob.

 

Ok (I think, lol)... I'm just looking at it wondering how big of a freakin' hole I have to drill in the firewall/floorboard

 

Check where the EFI harness passes through the firewall. GM usually used a large rubber grommet. Can pop it out and make a slit from the outer edge to the center. Then use it for the cable pass through.

RBob.

 

Woah, just went to Bob's site to look up some info on connecting my wideband to the EBL Flash, and when I went there I saw the P4!!!!

 

What's the difference between the two?

 

Rbob's in a better position to answer, but basically he's made an EBL-type upgrade to the ECMs used in newer late-80s to mid-90s GM cars that had multiport injection.

 

So, I have an unsteady idle.

My idle PWs are around 1.2ms.

I have a 1bbl TBI with a 2" bore that's got a 1991 454 TBI injector in it, feeding 153 cubic inches.

Both injector drivers are wired to this one injector, and I'm keeping an eye open to make sure the duty cycle doesn't reach 50%.

I'm wondering if this sort of "floating" AFR I'm getting is related to this- thoughts?

 

How is it unsteady? Is it a rumpitty-rump, like it has a large cam, or is it more of an up-down cycling of a few hundred rpm?

 

Make sure that this table is set to 0:

INJ - ASync Transition PW - TBI Only

That will prevent async mode from short PW's.

For the unsteady idle, there may be too much idle comp spark. These two tables:

SA - Idle Low Compensation
SA - Idle High Compensation

Not unusual to halve the values.

RBob.

 

The EBL P4 Flash is along the same lines as the current EBL Flash. But for the '7730, '7727', and '7749 ECMs. Uses a different version of the WUD, comes with doc's and the ECU/XDF files and is USB based comm.

Some differences is that there is more I/O on the P4 version. Along with the additional features of the P4 ECM. Such as the internal knock filter and VSS buffer.

When currently using a '7730 ECM it is a better solution. Even if retro-fitting it can be better as it has dual fan control along with dual and single solenoid AIR control. It is also an easier install.

RBob.

 

Cool

UPS says the TT-1 is out for delivery. I've set the VE learn to WB, but I'm unsure what to set the smoothing factor to, right now it's at 12. Also, I'm not 100% sure what BIN I should start with. Originally I started with... well... now looking at the provided BINs I don't remember exactly which one I started with. It's always run quite rich, so I'm wondering if I should start off a base BIN so I'd have a clean slate (not that it should really matter far as the VE tables, should it?). With the WUD set to learn off WB, is this all that's needed for AE/PE learns?

I think I've asked all I'm going to ask right now... 3rd shift doesn't do well for asking questions in the morning.

 

Its unsteady like the afr keeps bouncing between like 13.x to 15.x while at closed throttle idle.

 

Its not going ASync, at least the WUD never shows ASync pw.

I noticed the afr keeps bouncing between like 13.x to 15.x while at closed throttle idle, where it feels unsteady...
What I'm worried about is if its commanding pw's shorter than the big 454 injectors can deliver. I read about a guy who said his 454 injectors had very inconsistent opening below 1.8ms @20 psi.

I'm at 12 psi, and I don't know how "short of a squirt" I can reliably get from this injector, which is almost twice the size of the factory injector.

Also what are the spark COMP tables?

Do they automatically pull a little spark when the idle wanders high, and add it when the idle wanders low? ...I have a buddy who uses a Haltech and he had to manually create a spark timing "ramp and trough" in his spark table around the desired idle speed to help keep it there.

Did I mention I love EBL

 

Considered idleing open loop? I have my the A/F in my OL tables the same in the cells surrounding the cell (700 rpms/40MAP) I idle in.

I believe there is also a flag to lock SA during idle. My car idles at 17 deg SA and is locked at that advance. That 17 is in constants I recall. Check your logs to see if your SA changes during idle.

i believe the idle comp values are too aggressive so they over shoot they desired affect. Mine are also halved.

 

I can see how the idle SA comps could be too aggressive now that my engine's much snappier, and the flywheel's only 14 lbs.

You think open loop idle would help? I was more worried about the mechanical limitation of the injector not being able to consistently open and close in that short of an on-time. I guess I don't have much of a frame of reference though.

How big of a disadvantage am I at not having an IAT sensor? This car didn't have one from the factory, and I see that the EBL (for some reason I don't understand) always thinks the temperature in the manifold is 104 degrees F.

 

You probably need to increase the injector offset compensation. This table:

INJ - Injector Correction Offset

That makes up for the opening time of the injectors. Increase all values equally so that the value at 14.4 V is about 600 to 660 usec. IIRC that ia bout right for an 80 #/hr injector at 12 psi.

If you can increase the fuel pressure, going to a smaller injector with the fuel pressure above 18 psi will allow for a vacuum referenced FPR (VRFPR). This is better as under lower loads the fuel pressure is lowered. And the PW is increased to compensate for it.

Also what are the spark COMP tables?

They are as you posted about them. The purpose is to prevent a rolling idle.

RBob.

 

An IAT sensor helps with more consistent fueling over ambient temperature changes. The reason the ECM thinks it is at 104* F, is because the sensor is missing. So the ECM uses a default value in it's place. The ECM will also do this for the MAP and CTS sensors. Creating and using a default value in the place of the malfunctioning sensor.

Go to the Diagnostic display of the WUD. It will show the true sensor value of -40* (C and F) for the IAT.

This is important to understand. As the main display(s) show the value that the ECM is using. While the diagnostic display shows the real sensor value.

Try unplugging the electrical connector to the MAP sensor. The ECM will quickly create a default value and use it. The MAP will even change as the throttle and RPM are changed.

However, the diagnostic display will show the actual steady state bad MAP value.

RBob.

 

For a smoothing factor it depends upon how much correction is being made. With a lot of corrections a lower value is best. Say 4 to 6. Then as the VE table takes shape can increase the smoothing a bit.

What you don't want is a lot of smoothing on a heavily corrected table. As it can negate the changes.

For a BIN select one that most closely matches the drivetrain. Then make the required BPC table changes and the other odds & ends. Flash it in and turn the key.

The AE isn't learned in. And if far enough out can affect the VE Learn. For the learning keep the go-pedal as steady as possible. I tend to continuously roll into the throttle, which isn't good for VE Learns.

Need to step into the throttle and then hold it.

RBob.

 

As RBob stated....idle "synch".

Give it a try. Make only one change at a time and experience the result.

 

This is a table not present in v2.2d?

I have async disabled via Transition constants.

 

Now that i think of it OL idle may compliment "synch" idle nicely. Enriching the OL tables around idle RPM/MAP cells area may help as well. Downside is wasted fuel.

I idle at 13.9/1 and 1.8 msec at 12/1 with 75 lbs injs 350 cid.

 

In the earlier versions of the ECU/XDF the transition values is two separate constants:

INJ - ASync Transition Lo
INJ - ASync Transition Hi

In the newer ECU/XDF the transition values are in one table:

INJ - ASync Transition PW - TBI Only

RBob.

 

I'm getting ready to add more sensors to the ADC channels and was wondering if it is safe to run them all off of the 5V I tapped into from the TPS?

I'm going to end up with 6 (+ the TPS and MAP) if all goes well and am concerned this might be too much as I don't know the current limitations of the ECM. Any thoughts?

If I were to use another 5V reference, either from my autometer gauge or a standalone supply would it cause ground loop or other problems?

Also, I was going to try to use the two pin GM temp sensors (same on as the factory IAT) for temp inputs to the EBL. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks

BTW - The EBL is simply great!

 

I have the _V24 xdf and it has the two separate constants.

 

The old value in the table was 396.x @ 14.4. When you say increase the values equally, do you mean ADD the difference in usecs (660-397=263) to all the table values or do you mean MULTIPLY all the table values by 1.58 to arrive at the target number for 14.4v?

 

Also, if I set my Wideband up for VE learn, does the WUD software make corrections for ALL speed load points on the
"OPEN LOOP AFR VS RPM and VAC" table?

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't really know how learning for points where other-than-stoich is the commanded AFR- I've only done VE Learn on the narrowband.

 

Oh nifty, you're from Allendale one of my good friends lives over there. We grew up next to Flint (where I69 and I75 meet).

 

I would be leery of having that number of devices off the +5 V reference. Best would be to put together a precision +5 V supply for the added devices. Use industrial temperature range parts and parts that will hold at +5.0V +- 1%.

Ground this P/S circuit to the engine block only. Then the devices get grounded to the engine block with the signals going to the EBL terminal strip.

RBob.

 

Add the difference to the values.

RBob.

 

The WB based VE Learn compares the commanded AFR to the reported AFR. Then changes the VE table based on that difference. It doesn't matter what the commanded AFR is.

RBob.

 

i have a quick question rbob with this will i be able to change the spoeed limiter so i can go faster than 115 mph ?

 

yes but why would you want to do that? mine is set to 80...

 

cause i'm shooting for a 120+ quarter mile

 

Yes, all tuning parameters are changeable. Setting the speed limiter to 255 disables it. As the MPH variable can not go higher then 255 to trip it.

RBob.

 

RBob,
As with the current EBL, will the new P4 have the ability to learn and modify the bin file that is currently being used or will tuning changes have to be made in a tuning program such as TunerPro?

 

The EBL P4 Flash has the VE Learn the same as the regular EBL Flash.

Tuner Pro is still required for the other calibration changes.

RBob.

 

RBob,
Thanks for the info. I love my current EBL in my Jeep. I see a P4 in my future for my camaro.

 

Ok I got the TT-1 and working, at least to a point I believe. Should I be seeing VE values change when I learn off the WB setting? I think I'll flat have to lower my fuel pressure, I don't really have a way to make it a VFPR right now, but I think I can get a decent idle by dropping it about 5psi. Right now it idles around 11-12:1, and that's about the leanest I can get it and still get it to start. It still dies out at idle because it can't cut the pulse width of the injectors short enough.

For the WB, do I have to have the dedicated wire hooked up to one of the inputs on the ECM, or is the original input sufficient? That's where my question is, I didn't see any corrections being made while driving under the WB learn.

 

If you are doing WB VE Learns you don't need the simulated O2 connected at all. The ECM needs to be in open loop.

As far as not seeing any changes, does the box turn green at all? Play back a data log and check the items such as open loop only, engine temperature range versus WB learn preferences, and so on.

RBob.

 

Dunno what I was thinkin, I've got v2.2a.

I'll e-mail you for update soon.

 

I sent the update out, note that it includes the firmware update for the ECM. This and the new ECU/XDF go together. Can't use one without the other.

The WUD can be used without doing the ECM firmware update, but only the WUD.

Notice the async transition entries (posted above), the new ECU/XDF states TBI only. The new ECM firmware no longer goes async when used with the Port Mod. It will go into single fire mode. This is why that ECU/XDF entry changed.

The WUD will now display the Flash ECM firmware and EBL type (classic/flash) at the bottom of the main display. Engine needs to be running for this.

For the list of ECM firmware changes:

http://www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Update...rmware_Changes

RBob.

 

Yes, it does turn green occasionally, but most of the time it's yellow. Far as I know it's in OL, but I'm not positive. I'm also planning to simply lower the fuel pressure. At 25psi the EBL utility says it'll support 450hp with the injectors I have, but I'm sure it doesn't make that much, especially with the heads it has, plus it still stalls.

 

Email the data log to me and I'll take a look at it. Also include which channel the WB is on.

What are the basic specs on the cam (lift & duration at 050)

RBob.

 

Just an opinion on fuel pressure, for what it's worth...
I've got mine set at 25. I arrived at that number by finding 90% duty cycle on the injectors at my "probable" max RPM and max load at WOT with 1 or 2 kPa drop in manifold pressure. For me, that's around 4400 RPM. ( which happens to be the max RPM the TH400 allows WOT 1 to 2 shift. Also happens to be within 200 RPM of believed max HP. ) Close enough. Normally, I seldom if ever top 3200 RPM. ( max torque is around 2700, so that's where I want "best" control )
Why ? It doesn't stall at idle, ( though it does become erratic and a tad unpredictable ) comes off idle OK, and the chance of damaging the engine at idle due to a fueling problem is much less than damaging something WOT at RPM under load.
On the outside chance it ever does run above that, the injectors go static, control is lost as they flow a LOT of fuel, but it won't go lean. ( theoretically ) During early experimentation with lower fuel pressures, they did go static on me, and the thing ran real rich still within my "working" RPM range. Poor power, and poor mileage was the result.
OK, red line is supposed to be around 5400 on this engine, but by then HP is dropping fairly quickly, torque is dropping real fast, the MPH is well above comfort level, and I'll never see it, so there's no point in building or tuning it to run there, in spite of what it "could be" if I were to go full-out race car. I can get more, but will I *ever* need it ?

 

I got it working (finally), I didn't have the WB connected to one of the ADC channels, I thought just using the factory O2 wire would work. I've done probably 15-20 learns so far, but still quite a ways go to before it'll run like I want. The cam is a mild Comp roller (212/218 @ .050, 110º LSA), and now it will idle like a stock SBC while in OL, but if it goes into CL it stalls after several seconds (probably fuel pressure), is there an easy way to set it so it only idles OL?

Also, I have a dead spot just off idle, soon as I open the throttle just a hair, on occasion it will go extremely lean and die almost instantly. I tried adjusting the VE table manually, but I'm wondering if I understand it right. I change the values via the graph to make sure nothing is too far off of its adjacent values, increasing VE increases the amount of fuel, correct? I try to find the corresponding MAP/RPM reading, but it happens so fast a)the EBL doesn't learn the value quick enough, and b)it's always happened during a learn so far, so no data yet.

The truck is running worlds better, but the readings I'm getting from the WB in some of the upper RPMs (2000-3500 tops) of where I've been driving worry me, just because they read so lean. I have a mid-high MAP area around 1600-2000 that's way lean (20+ a/f) and it's hard to keep the throttle steady enough in that area to get it to learn.

 

Make sure that you have disabled async mode:

Set this table to 0:

INJ - ASync Transition PW - TBI Only

The other item that has been recently discussed is the injector offset compensation. With the higher fuel pressure the injectors take longer to open.

is there an easy way to set it so it only idles OL?

Set this option in word 1:

OpIdl - Enable open loop fuel during idle

I have a mid-high MAP area around 1600-2000 that's way lean (20+ a/f) and it's

Go to that area of the VE table and increase it. Then allow the VE Learn to get it closer.

Increasing VE increases the PW for more fuel.

Also, I have a dead spot just off idle, soon as I open the throttle just a hair, on occasion it

I wonder why it is only on occasion. Look at a dump of the data log. There is AE information in the end columns before the ADC data.

RBob.

 

QUOTE]I tried adjusting the VE table manually.QUOTE][

Doesnt hurt. I would think VE Learns will do the same. I have done so to smoothen the transitions if I see an unwanted peak or valley.

I believe unlikely.


Look at the VE Learn Display. corrections in %. You should see areas that you feel are very lean gettiing some positive corrections. see http://dynamicefi.com/Tune_Intro.php

about 90% down the page for that display.

Once your VE table is within range of sensor correction ability you should not be lean. A BLM of 160-115 should allow the ECU to correct sufficiently to a "stoich" A/F.

RBob is too quick.

 

In my early days, new engine, mismatched parts and such, in order to avoid banging the rails so to speak, I did reset the BLM limits to something ridiculously wide, like a range of 70-160 to allow the ECM enough range to attempt a correction.
Something like two learns and it was well enough within range to re-set those limits back to stock.
Don't know if this was a "correct" approach, but it worked !