It would depend upon how the TCC's TPS% required to lock/unlock versus MPH tables are set up.

There is a TCC write up in the Tuning Guide Book sticky, chapter 5, under the '8746/'7747/'8063 ECM section.

RBob.

 

Can not a "work around" be done using the AE RPM table? That RPM table has more resolution. Say you want to reduce AE in TPS or MAP by 32 usec would not a global change of say a couple percent possibly allow the desured 32usec or portion thereof?

 

My fault for not mentioning in my last post that the AE-RPM Multiplier is (I think) the most often used AE modifier, really it depends on what your trying to accomplish.


Edit:AE-RPM will also have a minimum resolution.

 

I've read that thread several times but I will need to read it several more times for it to sink in.

LoGr is 3rd correct?
HiGr is Overdrive correct?

Dyno was done in 3rd gear, so far I'm understanding that if the TPS% opens 46.05% at 70 mph it will unlock ( that % came from my .bin in the LoGR TPS% to unlock). I'm assuming that % is basically how far open your blades are.

Under a normal cruise does it unlock because its less strain on the driveline and gives you better fuel mileage?

Since the ecm has no seperate table for the TCC to stay locked while in PE mode it will lock and unlock correct?

What would happen if I force lock it at say 50 mph? And would this best be used when running a dyno or track?
or
should I be thinking more in the lines of changing my % in the LoGR TPS% table to something closer to 100% and leaving my HiGR alone so while cruising on the highway its working as it should?

sorry, I know alot of questions in this post

 

LoGr is for 2nd & 3rd (yes, it will lock in 2nd). HiGr being 4th or OD.

During normal cruise the TCC should be locked. Even when the stick is in 3rd and going say 40 MPH.

No separate table for PE mode.

Be careful with the forced lock MPH. Too low and it can eat the 3/4 clutch pack. It can also eat the TCC clutch.

Be sure that the WUD is correctly displaying D and OD. That is no OD display until the trans actually upshifts to OD.

There is an option flag to set the 4th gear switch as NO/NC in the calibration.

RBob.

 

I'd tend to agree.
That last 4% makes little difference at WOT as compared to idle, but might as well have it reporting correctly.
Think I ended up bending the bracket a little to get WOT at 100%, then the ECM sets closed throttle at whatever it reads at start-up.
As long as you can hit the mechanical stops at both ends, you're good to go.

 

Has anyone tried using a calibration bank for anti-theft? I'm considering using the flash switcher as a sort of electronic key so I can turn the car "off" and take the switcher with me or lock it in the house. I've been experimenting with valet mode, but thinking of a step beyond that.

Thanks

 

I think that with the valet mode set to an unreasonable fuel cutoff, etc. it would be pretty much enough. The only way would be if they realized what they had to do to get around it. Something else you could do would be to set up a latching relay, and use one of the factory switches to engage it. The way it works is once there is power applied to the supply side, you hit the 'trigger', and the way the relay is wired it stays that way until power is interrupted, then it kills power to the circuit again. So if you have it wired into, say, the fuel pump circuit, you would turn the key on, hit your "hidden" button that's in full view, and start the vehicle like normal. Once you turn the vehicle back off, this circuit is severed automatically, and the only way it will run again is if you hit your secret button. You could also set this up with an unused circuit in the fuse panel. Say if you take it somewhere to have it serviced (alignment, stuff like that requiring special equipment), you could insert a small current fuse into this specific circuit, and the vehicle would operate like normal. When everything is done you just take the fuse out and plop it in the glove box... back to secure I have all kinds of ideas like this rollin' around in my brain.

 

If the vehicle doesn't have VATs can enable it in the calibration. The engine will start and run for 2 seconds then shut off.

I've also zeroed out the VE table. Engine won't run without fuel. Doesn't even have a hint that it wants to run.

RBob.

 

Thanks for the input. Zero'ing the fuel is what I was thinking but unsure. I played with the valet mode this weekend and didn't quite get the hang of it - found myself jack-rabbiting out in traffic and having to restart in the middle of an intersection. Operator error but still unnerving. I watched the WUD more carefully after that. The one thing that I wasn't sure about is how the MPH fuel cutoff works in conjunction with RPM timing retard. I could get the speed up to 20-30 MPH by keeping the RPM's below the timing cutoff. I had the MPH fuel cutoff set at 6 MPH and thought it would have kicked in and it didn't. I wondered if the MPH fuel cutoff is applied only if the RPM timing limit is already exceeded. I read the calibration html file but it didn't sink in the first time. I have to give it another try this weekend. Thanks again!

 

There is a stall saver RPM limit. If the engine speed is below this value the fuel won't get cut.

OVSPD - Stall saver RPM

RBob.

 

What do I change to raise the lean cruise minimum value so that I can let the VE learn work a lot more of the time?

Also What disables the EGR in the BIN?

 

To disable lean cruise I usually set the minimum MPH to 255.

EGR disable is usually by the CTS threshold. The EBL Flash also has an option flag to enable/disable the EGR.

RBob.

 

What is the option called in the scalers list for the lean cruise?

 

HiWy - Min MPH

Right before that one is the minimum coolant, can also use that to disable it.

RBob.

 

Its been a while since I have been in here. Summer tune went pretty well. Now its Fall and cooler temps. One thing I haven't resolved yet is the Hole Shot. Sitting at idle and mashing the pedal. I get a pause about 1/2 sec if not longer before I get an engine response. What would I look at to adjust. Its not backfiring so it may not be lean, not sure. I need the tables that would help with this. As always .. Thanks


Scott

1988 1/2 Ton 4 W/D Suburban
383 Stroker (Roller)
Performer Edelbrock Manifold
670 CFM Holley TBI
3" Exhaust No Cat(shhhh), Flow Master 40
190 LPH In-tank Fuel Pump 21 PSI
EBL (Dynamic EFI) Computer

 

I have the same issue with my tune. I'm not sure if its because of my stock torque converter or the tune but I cant burn out without the brakes from a dead stop because of the hesitation at take off. I would assume it has to do with some adjustments to the AE but lets see what the experts have to say.

 

I think this might be able to help us out with out take off issue, Scott. Thanks RBob.

 

I'm noticing a couple of things that are similar to my situation.
BIG displacement engine.
TBI.
Heavy truck.

OK, if I "mash the pedal" on my bored 455 TBI in the 3/4 ton, it'll miss at best.
It'll sometimes die completely.
If I roll on the pedal, fairly fast but not a stomp, I have a wheel spin problem in a 6000 pound truck ! Why ?
Well, it's TBI, so at idle we have a lot of vacuum in that manifold, with a little mixture flow. Assuming it's warmed up, ( it's a lot worse when cold ) what happens when you snap the throttle ?
The engine doesn't turn much, but the blades go full open fairly fast. Pressure in the manifold rises rapidly, pretty much before the fuel can move, so the fuel in the manifold instantly condenses out, falling out of the air, and wetting the manifold. Air flows into the cylinder(s). Air by itself won't burn, so the engine doesn't do anything, except miss, or lose a few RPM. It's gone ultra-lean, but there's not even enough fuel to backfire. The pump shot, AE shot, has dumped fuel into the almost stopped air flowing into the manifold, but it doesn't get to a cylinder for a while. When it does, if it hasn't picked up too much of the fuel condensed onto the manifold surfaces, it might fire. If it has picked up fuel from the manifold surface, we have a real rich mixture, which again may not burn at all. By now, the engine is real close to flooded, and stalling completely.
Eventually, all this stuff clears out. 1/2 second or so. Maybe more, maybe less.
If the engine is still turning, a cylinder can ingest a flamable mixture, and the engine can then re-start and run.
This doesn't happen with port injection. The ECM can have the cylinder ingesting a flamable mixture immediately, so there should be no hesitation at all.

Now, what happens if I "roll" on the throttle, taking 3/4 second or so to hit WOT ?
The mix in the manifold has time to accelerate towards the cylinders. Pressure doesn't come up fast enough to condense and rain the fuel out of the air, so I get a flamable mixture of about what I want. Cylinders fire. Mixture accelerates and rams into the cylinders. Torque comes up rapidly. In my case, enough torque to break things if I'm not careful. Typically, the drive wheels lose bite even under 6000 pounds of steel, make noises, and the truck slowly starts to move. You're NOT going to accelerate 6000 pounds of anything instantly. ( unless you hit it with a train ) Give it a second, and it responds nicely.

Now, if I hold the break, bring the engine up against the converter, THEN mash it as I release the break, it's a whole 'nother story. Torque is applied against things already wound up, so nothing breaks, except traction. Mixture is already moving through the manifold, so it doesn't hesitate, it just goes.
Stay just below the traction limits, and things happen in a happy, and impressive fashion.

As I recall, it's all very consistent with the way the pro-gas car used to respond so many years ago.
Part of going fast, is driver technique. I don't want to hit my truck with a train. Sure, that'll accelerate things, but in a destructive fashion. I want to push it with all the torque it can take, but no more.

SO, my question back to you, is what happens if you roll on the throttle, taking 3/4 second or so to hit WOT ?
Are you sure you're not asking something of TBI that it simply can not do ?

 

It may just be me, but the throttle response on my 383 is great, no hesitation at all.

 

Same here, the Rat responds instantly and gains rpm freakishly fast, in fact keeping the AE moderate helps me control wheelspin. (I only weigh 5500)

Keep adding early AE till it says 'nuff.

 

One benefir of the EBL .xdf is ability to add fuel at lower RPMs. One over 2000 you can trim back values using RPM modifier. I have light car and in RPM AE table I have at 600rpms 46% and 2000 4% then I pull fuel equally with neg% to -50% at 4800 rpms.

I found the need with my cold manifold to bring in AE sooner. My AE filters are at 3.5% at running temps.

All of the symptoms you are witnessing I fixed in those tables.

 

Well Great info. There are:
AE-Map filter
AE-Map PW
AE-Tps Filter
AE-Tps pw
AE-Cts multiplier %
Ae-RPM Multiplier %

So, I wanted guidance on what will effect what. Always a great help from all of you.

Regards,

 

Man i am goign to have to spend a whole day reading the 33 pages of this thread..(headache is happening)

 

lol

 

I just printed this out yesterday bro lol.

Worth it though. Do it in black and white

started to do mine in color no bueno

 

The calibration file makes for a good read-through too lol

 

Am sorry to interrupt the thread, but am in need of the more knowledgable- Voltage to FP shows 6.8,pump does not run.I bypassed wiring to pump direct to battery and pump and engine runs, so I ran new wire from relay (orange 12v supply ok) replaced tan/white just out of relay,picked up oil press sw, and ran back to tank. Engine starts and runs ok,but EBL display shows 0 volts to FP and sets SES.I was ready to splice in a section of the old harness to feed signal to ECM,but am at a loss as to whether or not is there a voltage modification to the FP circut in the ECM? Could such circut in ECM be the source of this low voltage? I have noticed in old logs that FP voltage is sometimes higher than Batt,which seems like a pertty good trick,unless the Batt is drawing charge. I have looked thru wiring diagrams but have not found even a hint. Thanks, Val

 

The ECM provides 12 volts to the FP relay coil. This is to activate the relay to power up the fuel pump. It is common for the transistor that provides the +12 volts to the relay to fail. It is also easy to replace, there is a thread on the DFI & ECM board that has pictures.

The BAT gauge on the WUD is really the ignition switched power. The annunciation for this has been changed to IGN.

RBob.

 

Ok here is my ?, I have a mini ram 406 With ZZ10 cam, Having some issues getting it to idle. Any pointer you guys have please fire them this way. thanks

 

Thanks for the reply,but the relay coil circut(455/A1) is intact and functional,the circut in question seems to be called FP/signal (120/B2 in alldatapro wiring diagram) and connects the ECM into the relay power out line to the fuel pump.Sorry for the confusion,Val

 

The new wire that you ran back to the fuel pump also needs to be tied to pin B2 of the ECM. This is so the ECM can monitor the FP voltage and toss a SES if it isn't correct.

Note that the ECM also uses the FP voltage for the injector compensation. So it is important to have it connected to the ECM.

You can also find wiring diagrams on our web site:

www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Drawings.php

RBob.

 

Welcome to TGO. Can raise the idle speed and work with the idle SA compensation. Have the VE tables been worked on yet? Is this with a stock TPI '7730 ECM, or an EBL P4 Flash ECM?

RBob.

 

This is with the EBL P4, I have only adjusted the idle ranges i have it idling at times for a min then it tries to dip around 450 rpm and it just wont have that. I have added fuel and a couple of deg of timing to the ranges of 800-400 rpm

 

Usually need to remove fuel when going with that much cam. The volumetric efficiency of the engine is less at lower engine speeds. With a higher idle speed the IAC will also open more, need to compensate for that by opening the throttle blades more.

On a warmed up engine shoot for 20-30 IAC steps with no load.

RBob.

 

Is this IAC Step done in the scale DFCO setting?

 

No, it is a mechanical change done by opening the throttle blades by using the throttle stop screw on the TB.

The ISC steps for DFCO are there to prevent too much engine braking.

RBob.

 

OK LOL, I guess thats easy Thanks Ill try that

 

This is how my low speed ve table looks
27.84 28.63 34.51 38.43 47.06 52.16 56.08 56.86 58.04 59.22 60.00 63.53 66.27 70.98
31.76 34.51 38.04 41.96 50.59 54.90 57.65 58.82 60.39 61.57 62.35 64.71 66.67 70.98
33.73 37.65 41.18 46.27 55.29 59.22 61.18 62.35 63.92 65.49 66.67 68.24 69.80 73.73
38.04 41.96 45.49 49.02 59.22 61.18 63.14 65.10 65.88 67.45 69.02 70.59 72.94 75.29
39.61 44.31 49.02 52.94 61.18 63.14 65.49 67.06 68.24 69.41 70.20 70.98 72.94 75.69
41.18 45.49 49.80 54.12 62.75 64.71 66.67 67.84 69.02 69.80 70.59 71.37 73.73 76.08
47.06 51.37 55.69 59.61 63.53 65.49 67.45 69.02 69.80 70.20 70.98 72.55 73.73 76.86
48.63 52.94 57.25 60.78 64.31 66.27 68.63 69.80 70.98 71.37 72.16 72.94 74.51 77.65
49.41 53.73 58.04 61.96 65.49 67.45 69.41 70.59 71.37 72.16 72.94 73.73 74.90 77.65
50.59 54.51 58.82 62.35 66.27 68.24 69.80 70.59 71.37 72.16 72.94 73.73 75.29 77.65
51.76 55.29 58.82 62.35 66.27 68.24 69.80 70.59 71.37 72.16 72.94 73.73 75.29 77.65
52.94 56.08 59.61 63.14 66.67 68.24 69.80 70.59 71.37 72.16 72.94 73.73 75.29 77.65
53.73 57.65 61.57 64.31 66.67 68.24 69.80 70.59 71.37 72.16 72.94 73.73 75.29 77.65
54.12 58.04 61.96 64.71 67.06 68.63 70.20 70.98 71.76 72.55 73.33 74.12 75.69 77.65
54.90 58.82 62.75 65.10 67.84 69.02 70.59 71.37 72.16 72.94 73.73 74.51 76.08 78.04
55.29 59.22 63.14 65.49 68.24 69.41 70.59 71.76 72.55 73.33 74.51 75.29 76.86 78.04
55.69 59.61 63.53 66.27 68.63 69.80 70.98 71.76 72.94 73.73 74.90 75.69 77.25 78.43

 

Or should i just be doing the main table ,sorry new at this

 

The idle areas will be in the low speed VE table. You can also set up and run auto VE Learns. There is information on setting up and running them in both the Intro to Tuning on our web site, and the What'sUp Help file that was supplied on the CD.

If you did the standard install of the CD there is a program group for the EBL P4. Within that group are three help files: calibration entries, the What's Up Display, and general info.

RBob.

 

well my car cant go on the road im just trying to get it idling good then ill do that, I do have to be on the road for the VE learn correct?

 

Not really, can do some learns in and around the idle area in the driveway. I just recently did some learns on a new tune at idle and running the car up & down the driveway.

RBob.

 

RBobs driveway is 3 miles long. A hidden mountain retrieve. Hidden batmobile cave as well to do wrenching on his fleet of rides.

 

Thanks for the info,I had disabled the flag to dump the SES but suspected that the input might be used for fueling/something other than the WUD. The pin outs are always good to have,(printed them out at the get go)but I guess the unknown is what else does the FP signal (B2)influence. It is very nice to have a source that knows all of the inner workings of the little devil,again, Thank You. Val

 

anyone know how much work it is to add a wideband 02 with the ebl flash?

 

Well, no, but it is longer than mine. ( slightly, but then so is my truck )

 

Almost none.
It's already in the docs, as I recall.
Basically, you connect the wires to the header on the terminals you like, tell the software that it's there, what kind it is, and you're pretty much done.

 

That Throttle body adjustment did the trick Bob thanks

 

How did you find out about that? It is supposed to be a bat-secret. Alfred, to the bat-cave!

RBob.