Tuning with the EBL
01-29-2012, 09:49 AM
#1751
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
I have a 91 5.0 TPI (730) auto trans.
What re-pinning will I have to do to run the EBL P4 flash?
If I want to run 9 psi of boost I know I will need a 2 bar MAP sensor, do I need something else or I will be readdy to start tuning.
What re-pinning will I have to do to run the EBL P4 flash?
If I want to run 9 psi of boost I know I will need a 2 bar MAP sensor, do I need something else or I will be readdy to start tuning.
01-29-2012, 12:39 PM
#1752
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
For tuning will need Tuner Pro (free version) and a laptop with a USB port.
Note that if you want a knock detection set up (recommended) will need to do something for a knock filter. There are several ways to do this. Please see the P4 self-install guide on our web site for various methods of installing/using a knock filter.
RBob.
02-01-2012, 08:49 AM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
I am getting the parts ready to swap from a 165 to the P4 EBL. Since it was brought up,the info for the P4 EBL states to use an knock module from an LT1 or LT4 PCM. From the info I have found the LT4 was designed for the corvette with roller rockers (16214681). It is less sensitive to valve train noise. The issue is the LT4 had 2 knock sensors while the LT1 (16177700) had one sensor. Is this LT4 module ok to use in the P4 or am I looking at the wrong part.
02-01-2012, 10:52 AM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Would the wiring change at all for the shi5 box if i put the stock tbi ecm back in. There was a ebl flash which is fir sale
02-01-2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
I am getting the parts ready to swap from a 165 to the P4 EBL. Since it was brought up,the info for the P4 EBL states to use an knock module from an LT1 or LT4 PCM. From the info I have found the LT4 was designed for the corvette with roller rockers (16214681). It is less sensitive to valve train noise. The issue is the LT4 had 2 knock sensors while the LT1 (16177700) had one sensor. Is this LT4 module ok to use in the P4 or am I looking at the wrong part.
If there is currently a knock sensor and filter for the '7165 that too will work with the EBL P4 Flash ECM. It will be wired as an 'external' filter.
If you haven't contacted us about the swap please do. We can send you the re-pin guide for this. We also carry the extra ECM harness connector that is required.
RBob.
02-14-2012, 11:32 AM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
I have an EBL user since 07 and it is a great product. I am presently planning to go a long drive ~ 1000 mile long trip. Naturally would like to do some tuning along the way, but I am afraid that data log file will be huge. Also, I do not want to fiddle with the lap top while driving! For about 50% of the trip the road is flat and rather boring (I-5 in SJ valley), but climbing the grapevine up to Tejon pass should interesting! Is there a way - to pause and restart data logging with a single key press????
//RF
//RF
02-14-2012, 12:23 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
I have an EBL user since 07 and it is a great product. I am presently planning to go a long drive ~ 1000 mile long trip. Naturally would like to do some tuning along the way, but I am afraid that data log file will be huge. Also, I do not want to fiddle with the lap top while driving! For about 50% of the trip the road is flat and rather boring (I-5 in SJ valley), but climbing the grapevine up to Tejon pass should interesting! Is there a way - to pause and restart data logging with a single key press????
//RF
//RF
Note that newer versions of the WUD require this to be enabled. Go to the Preferences dialog and check the box that states "ENTER to Pause Datalog."
RBob.
02-14-2012, 12:45 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Yes, the ENTER key will pause data logging. The WUD will keep on running, just logging is paused. Hitting the space bar re-enables logging. The logging status is shown on the display.
Note that newer versions of the WUD require this to be enabled. Go to the Preferences dialog and check the box that states "ENTER to Pause Datalog."
RBob.
Note that newer versions of the WUD require this to be enabled. Go to the Preferences dialog and check the box that states "ENTER to Pause Datalog."
RBob.
Thanks Bob for pointing out the obvious! I guess I had the Duhhh moment!!
A follow up question - if the VE learn is enabled this process is not effected by the data log pause??
//RF
02-14-2012, 03:34 PM
#1760
02-14-2012, 07:43 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Learn somethin' new every day 
When the log is paused, then resumed, does it also resume at the current run time... i.e. paused at 1:20, resumed at 3:40. Does it reflect this in the log?
When the log is paused, then resumed, does it also resume at the current run time... i.e. paused at 1:20, resumed at 3:40. Does it reflect this in the log?
02-26-2012, 02:36 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
So I came across a little info on FSC, is this still a viable solution for setting idle with EBL?
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...ml#post5538101
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forum/g...ml#post5538101
On the PCM that come in trucks from this forum the TPS is set to 0% at startup. As long a voltage is below .90 it will be OK, but ,54 is optimum.
If your engine is stock, TBI never rebuilt or wore out it should be fine for ever. If you have a built engine TBI conversion or some need to do it here's a list of how.
1. Timing
Disconnect the bypass wire and set timing to 0° at idle when warm. Procedure- warm up motor then turn off. Unplug bypass. Start motor. Set timing to 0°. Turn off motor. Reconnect bypass. Unplug ECM to clear fault code.
2. IAC reset/min idle speed- This sets the throttle plate on the throttle body to a specific rpm. It should be set to 100-125 RPM below idle commanded in bin file. At ALDL connector you need to put a jumper between pins A and B of the connector. These are pins A9 (what/blk) and A12 (blk/wht) on the ECM. This puts the ECM into ALDL mode. Turn the key on (not start) and the IAC should drive completely closed. You will normally hear a buzzing from the IAC. If you have the TunerPro running up and running on your laptop, or a Scan Tool you should see the IAC went from 145 to 0. Now unplug the IAC connector. Turn the key off. Remove jumper. Start motor. If the idle is too low you may have to keep it running. On the front drivers side of the throttle body is the adjustment screw. It will probably be behind a silver plug. If so just use a drill bit slowly to drill a hole, not to deep as to damage the torx screw behind it, just enough to use a punch to grab it and remove it. Then use a #20 torx bit to adjust the idle speed to at least 100 rpm less then your warm idle speed in bin. If 600 then set to 500 rpm. You are looking for the lowest consistent idle your motor will do. When set, turn off motor and reconnect the IAC. I try to keep the IAC count to at least 10-20 with the motor warm and idling. Higher number are OK but more air pushing gas past throttle blades on TBI engines is better!
3. TPS Throttle Position Sensor. With the idle set, you need to set the TPS idle voltage. This need to be set to about .54V to .60V
The TPS is on the passengers side and will have 2 screws holding it on. The factory TPS will not have much room in the holes for adjustments so I use a drill bit or file to elongate the holes as needed. Or bend tang on throttle shaft. To adjust, just loosen the screws and twist the TPS. You can monitor the voltage on Pin B of the connector with the key on or at pin C13 of the ECM. You can also see it in TunerPro or Scan tool! Anything away from .54V will also show as a percent of throttle on 1227747 ECM like .2 percent or 1.7 percent...depending on how far from .54 you are. But otherECM/PCM set to 0% when key on. I try to keep the idle setting to within 1 percent do to settings in bin file.
This is also a good time to check your TPS voltage. Once it is set, just watch the voltage as you open the throttle. you should see a steady rise in voltage up to about 4.5-4.8V at WOT-wide open throttle. If it jumps up and down or skips some then you will need to replace it.
Clear codes!
4. Fuel pressure The systems calculates the fuel needed based on the initial settings for injector size at a specific pressure. If the pressure changes then the fuel calculations will be off. I recommend checking the feed and return line pressures at the very beginning. This can save a lot of time later. The pressure on TBI should be 13 psi and 43.5 on TPI/MPFI with stock regulaters.
These are feed side pressures and should not change with rpm or load.
The return should be near 0 psi.
These are basics that need to be done before any tuning or data logging can begin.
If your engine is stock, TBI never rebuilt or wore out it should be fine for ever. If you have a built engine TBI conversion or some need to do it here's a list of how.
1. Timing
Disconnect the bypass wire and set timing to 0° at idle when warm. Procedure- warm up motor then turn off. Unplug bypass. Start motor. Set timing to 0°. Turn off motor. Reconnect bypass. Unplug ECM to clear fault code.
2. IAC reset/min idle speed- This sets the throttle plate on the throttle body to a specific rpm. It should be set to 100-125 RPM below idle commanded in bin file. At ALDL connector you need to put a jumper between pins A and B of the connector. These are pins A9 (what/blk) and A12 (blk/wht) on the ECM. This puts the ECM into ALDL mode. Turn the key on (not start) and the IAC should drive completely closed. You will normally hear a buzzing from the IAC. If you have the TunerPro running up and running on your laptop, or a Scan Tool you should see the IAC went from 145 to 0. Now unplug the IAC connector. Turn the key off. Remove jumper. Start motor. If the idle is too low you may have to keep it running. On the front drivers side of the throttle body is the adjustment screw. It will probably be behind a silver plug. If so just use a drill bit slowly to drill a hole, not to deep as to damage the torx screw behind it, just enough to use a punch to grab it and remove it. Then use a #20 torx bit to adjust the idle speed to at least 100 rpm less then your warm idle speed in bin. If 600 then set to 500 rpm. You are looking for the lowest consistent idle your motor will do. When set, turn off motor and reconnect the IAC. I try to keep the IAC count to at least 10-20 with the motor warm and idling. Higher number are OK but more air pushing gas past throttle blades on TBI engines is better!
3. TPS Throttle Position Sensor. With the idle set, you need to set the TPS idle voltage. This need to be set to about .54V to .60V
The TPS is on the passengers side and will have 2 screws holding it on. The factory TPS will not have much room in the holes for adjustments so I use a drill bit or file to elongate the holes as needed. Or bend tang on throttle shaft. To adjust, just loosen the screws and twist the TPS. You can monitor the voltage on Pin B of the connector with the key on or at pin C13 of the ECM. You can also see it in TunerPro or Scan tool! Anything away from .54V will also show as a percent of throttle on 1227747 ECM like .2 percent or 1.7 percent...depending on how far from .54 you are. But otherECM/PCM set to 0% when key on. I try to keep the idle setting to within 1 percent do to settings in bin file.
This is also a good time to check your TPS voltage. Once it is set, just watch the voltage as you open the throttle. you should see a steady rise in voltage up to about 4.5-4.8V at WOT-wide open throttle. If it jumps up and down or skips some then you will need to replace it.
Clear codes!
4. Fuel pressure The systems calculates the fuel needed based on the initial settings for injector size at a specific pressure. If the pressure changes then the fuel calculations will be off. I recommend checking the feed and return line pressures at the very beginning. This can save a lot of time later. The pressure on TBI should be 13 psi and 43.5 on TPI/MPFI with stock regulaters.
These are feed side pressures and should not change with rpm or load.
The return should be near 0 psi.
These are basics that need to be done before any tuning or data logging can begin.
02-27-2012, 10:45 AM
#1765
Re: Tuning with the EBL
Then use a #20 torx bit to adjust the idle speed to at least 100 rpm less then your warm idle speed in bin. If 600 then set to 500 rpm.
03-07-2012, 11:16 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
P4 Flash question.
The regular EBL Flash had a hole in it to pass my extra analog data channels through (EGT, AFR, etc), with the P4 I see no such pre-existing hole- must I bore into the case?
The regular EBL Flash had a hole in it to pass my extra analog data channels through (EGT, AFR, etc), with the P4 I see no such pre-existing hole- must I bore into the case?
03-08-2012, 07:12 AM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
For the EBL P4 there are a number of options. A hole and grommet in the case works. Can also put a hole or slot into the MEMCAL cover. Or leave the MEMCAL cover ajar and clamp the wires with it (be sure to protect the wires).
There appears to be a couple of open pins on the ECM harness connectors (B2, C2, E1, & E2), can do the same as done with the comm cable. Just double check to be sure that they are open first.
RBob.
03-08-2012, 01:00 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
I might add a terminal block/terminal strip to the case.
03-11-2012, 01:41 PM
#1769
Re: Tuning with the EBL
Total newbie question here (just started driving with the EBL). Is there a traditional tabulated BLM display in the WUD somewhere? I've grown used to watching one fill in as I drive around, but I can't find a display like that. The VE learn page is the right format, but I don't see anything except a highlighted cell there - no BLM values.
EDIT: Okay, answered my own question. I see that if learn is enabled, then the correction table on the VE learn page displays the information I was after.
EDIT: Okay, answered my own question. I see that if learn is enabled, then the correction table on the VE learn page displays the information I was after.
Last edited by Mastiff; 03-11-2012 at 02:25 PM.
03-12-2012, 10:22 AM
#1771
Re: Tuning with the EBL
03-12-2012, 10:53 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
just finished installing my P4 Flash.... now to get a file in it.
It's talking on the WUD, so that's good
Bob, is 128 the value for a cylinder count of 4?
Uncheck Option Word 6, Bit 7 for a 1 bbl TBI on top of a 4 cylinder?
Also, I don't see any "out-of-the-box" bins for a TBI system of any sort. Is there one that would be good to start with?
It's talking on the WUD, so that's good
Bob, is 128 the value for a cylinder count of 4?
Uncheck Option Word 6, Bit 7 for a 1 bbl TBI on top of a 4 cylinder?
Also, I don't see any "out-of-the-box" bins for a TBI system of any sort. Is there one that would be good to start with?
Last edited by KurtAKX; 03-12-2012 at 11:24 PM.
03-13-2012, 08:58 AM
#1773
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
just finished installing my P4 Flash.... now to get a file in it.
It's talking on the WUD, so that's good
Bob, is 128 the value for a cylinder count of 4?
Uncheck Option Word 6, Bit 7 for a 1 bbl TBI on top of a 4 cylinder?
Also, I don't see any "out-of-the-box" bins for a TBI system of any sort. Is there one that would be good to start with?
It's talking on the WUD, so that's good
Bob, is 128 the value for a cylinder count of 4?
Uncheck Option Word 6, Bit 7 for a 1 bbl TBI on top of a 4 cylinder?
Also, I don't see any "out-of-the-box" bins for a TBI system of any sort. Is there one that would be good to start with?
Yes, uncheck the Port option flag. Can also uncheck the AsTAE flag. This is optional, TBI usually has it unset, but it will also work set.
When starting with a MPFI calibration will need to add a lot to the AE along with the proportional gains.
RBob.
03-13-2012, 10:29 PM
#1774
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Welp, can't quite get her to keep running.
First I had nothing (diagnosed back to forgetting the injector sense loop between D5 and D6)
Now, I have fuel coming out of the injector, but it does not appear to be enough. I had this setup running and driving (although not as well as I'd like) on the old EBL by faking out the BPC and stuff.
Here's what I'm working with:
1985 2.5 four cylinder Duke 4.030" bore 3" stroke 153 cubes.
Reworked stock wiring harness, which has CTS but not IAT.
TBI injected, one single 2" bore 1bbl TBI
"80 lb" 454 injector
12 psi fuel pressure, not vac referenced.
This cam
EBL P4 flash, jumper set to "T" on the board
Started from 3003.bin
Changed cyl count to 128 for a 4 cyl.
Unchecked "Port" option flag
Unchecked AsTAE
Set displacement per cylinder to 38.25
Set injector displacement to 80.
It would crank and fire and run for a couple seconds, then puke. I can stab at the gas and kinda get a few more seconds.
I tried a blanket increase of 1.2x on the whole low speed VE table, but it didn't really seem to make a measurable improvement.
I'm going to bed now, frustrated. I know I've gotta be missing something!
First I had nothing (diagnosed back to forgetting the injector sense loop between D5 and D6)
Now, I have fuel coming out of the injector, but it does not appear to be enough. I had this setup running and driving (although not as well as I'd like) on the old EBL by faking out the BPC and stuff.
Here's what I'm working with:
1985 2.5 four cylinder Duke 4.030" bore 3" stroke 153 cubes.
Reworked stock wiring harness, which has CTS but not IAT.
TBI injected, one single 2" bore 1bbl TBI
"80 lb" 454 injector
12 psi fuel pressure, not vac referenced.
This cam
EBL P4 flash, jumper set to "T" on the board
Started from 3003.bin
Changed cyl count to 128 for a 4 cyl.
Unchecked "Port" option flag
Unchecked AsTAE
Set displacement per cylinder to 38.25
Set injector displacement to 80.
It would crank and fire and run for a couple seconds, then puke. I can stab at the gas and kinda get a few more seconds.
I tried a blanket increase of 1.2x on the whole low speed VE table, but it didn't really seem to make a measurable improvement.
I'm going to bed now, frustrated. I know I've gotta be missing something!
03-14-2012, 10:03 AM
#1775
TH400 kickdown
This must be covered somewhere, but I can't find it. How do I configure EBL to kickdown TH400? I assume it's still pin A7, just repurposed instead of doing lockup? Do I need an external relay? Thanks.
03-14-2012, 11:08 AM
#1776
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Re: TH400 kickdown
RBob.
03-14-2012, 11:12 AM
#1777
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Welp, can't quite get her to keep running.
First I had nothing (diagnosed back to forgetting the injector sense loop between D5 and D6)
Now, I have fuel coming out of the injector, but it does not appear to be enough. I had this setup running and driving (although not as well as I'd like) on the old EBL by faking out the BPC and stuff.
Here's what I'm working with:
1985 2.5 four cylinder Duke 4.030" bore 3" stroke 153 cubes.
Reworked stock wiring harness, which has CTS but not IAT.
TBI injected, one single 2" bore 1bbl TBI
"80 lb" 454 injector
12 psi fuel pressure, not vac referenced.
This cam
EBL P4 flash, jumper set to "T" on the board
Started from 3003.bin
Changed cyl count to 128 for a 4 cyl.
Unchecked "Port" option flag
Unchecked AsTAE
Set displacement per cylinder to 38.25
Set injector displacement to 80.
It would crank and fire and run for a couple seconds, then puke. I can stab at the gas and kinda get a few more seconds.
I tried a blanket increase of 1.2x on the whole low speed VE table, but it didn't really seem to make a measurable improvement.
I'm going to bed now, frustrated. I know I've gotta be missing something!
First I had nothing (diagnosed back to forgetting the injector sense loop between D5 and D6)
Now, I have fuel coming out of the injector, but it does not appear to be enough. I had this setup running and driving (although not as well as I'd like) on the old EBL by faking out the BPC and stuff.
Here's what I'm working with:
1985 2.5 four cylinder Duke 4.030" bore 3" stroke 153 cubes.
Reworked stock wiring harness, which has CTS but not IAT.
TBI injected, one single 2" bore 1bbl TBI
"80 lb" 454 injector
12 psi fuel pressure, not vac referenced.
This cam
EBL P4 flash, jumper set to "T" on the board
Started from 3003.bin
Changed cyl count to 128 for a 4 cyl.
Unchecked "Port" option flag
Unchecked AsTAE
Set displacement per cylinder to 38.25
Set injector displacement to 80.
It would crank and fire and run for a couple seconds, then puke. I can stab at the gas and kinda get a few more seconds.
I tried a blanket increase of 1.2x on the whole low speed VE table, but it didn't really seem to make a measurable improvement.
I'm going to bed now, frustrated. I know I've gotta be missing something!
While the TBI fires the injector on every plug firing, this is only once per firing cycle.
A quick check would be to look at the PW (from a data log) from the other ECM and compare it to the PW for this ECM. If it is a little more then half, then enter 40 #/hr for the injector flow rate.
RBob.
03-14-2012, 01:10 PM
#1778
Re: TH400 kickdown
Thanks. Can you explain how the circuit works? Does the transmission kick down when the connector at the trans is given +12? Does the ECM ground the TCC pin or send +5 for kickdown?
03-14-2012, 02:12 PM
#1779
03-14-2012, 03:45 PM
#1781
Re: Tuning with the EBL
Great, thanks. To translate the picture, the trans wants +12 to kick down. The ECM pin pulls to ground for kickdown. So, use the ECM as the ground on the relay "enable" pair.
03-14-2012, 05:39 PM
#1782
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Thinking about this, probably need to halve the injector flow rate. The reasoning is that a MPFI engine fires the injectors once per revolution, or twice a firing cycle.
While the TBI fires the injector on every plug firing, this is only once per firing cycle.
A quick check would be to look at the PW (from a data log) from the other ECM and compare it to the PW for this ECM. If it is a little more then half, then enter 40 #/hr for the injector flow rate.
RBob.
While the TBI fires the injector on every plug firing, this is only once per firing cycle.
A quick check would be to look at the PW (from a data log) from the other ECM and compare it to the PW for this ECM. If it is a little more then half, then enter 40 #/hr for the injector flow rate.
RBob.
Might be a nice thing to include in the EBL P4 Calibration html file for all one of us running this ECM with a 1bbl TBI
I kept getting the ESC error flag as well- is the 1k-ohm resistor not the solution for this, like it was on the EBL C3?
Now on to take care of the 100 other projects in front of this one for paying customers so I can start playing with tune!
03-14-2012, 07:17 PM
#1783
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
RBob.
03-14-2012, 09:40 PM
#1784
Re: Tuning with the EBL
Hey guys,
I just got my EBL Flash in today for my TA. Some background on the engine, its a 400 SBC with 24lb inj and basically everything else is stock, its also a 5spd. After doing about 12ish learns today it was still maxing out and adding on the VE around the middle of the table(VE table that shows corrections on the WUD). Should I keep letting it do learns? The graph isnt looking that pretty with it being flat way up top and not very smooth.
The other question I had was about spark knock. I am experiencing knock from 1600-4800rpms and from 40-85KPa. Its basicly squared off area of the table on the areas of spark knock table on the WUD. I have been lowing my timing in that area and even everywhere and I cant tell if its getting better. Should i just keep lowering my SA table until the knock is gone?
I just got my EBL Flash in today for my TA. Some background on the engine, its a 400 SBC with 24lb inj and basically everything else is stock, its also a 5spd. After doing about 12ish learns today it was still maxing out and adding on the VE around the middle of the table(VE table that shows corrections on the WUD). Should I keep letting it do learns? The graph isnt looking that pretty with it being flat way up top and not very smooth.
The other question I had was about spark knock. I am experiencing knock from 1600-4800rpms and from 40-85KPa. Its basicly squared off area of the table on the areas of spark knock table on the WUD. I have been lowing my timing in that area and even everywhere and I cant tell if its getting better. Should i just keep lowering my SA table until the knock is gone?
03-15-2012, 08:31 AM
#1785
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Yep, injector flow rate/2 got me cranked right up!
Might be a nice thing to include in the EBL P4 Calibration html file for all one of us running this ECM with a 1bbl TBI
I kept getting the ESC error flag as well- is the 1k-ohm resistor not the solution for this, like it was on the EBL C3?
Now on to take care of the 100 other projects in front of this one for paying customers so I can start playing with tune!
Might be a nice thing to include in the EBL P4 Calibration html file for all one of us running this ECM with a 1bbl TBI
I kept getting the ESC error flag as well- is the 1k-ohm resistor not the solution for this, like it was on the EBL C3?
Now on to take care of the 100 other projects in front of this one for paying customers so I can start playing with tune!
That's good. This will be added to the calibration doc. We just really didn't expect a 4-cyl TBI user, so didn't do much with it. Almost removed all of the TBI code at one time too.
As for the ESC error, with the EBL P4 no need to do anything to fake out the ECM. Remove the 1K, no knock filter or MEMCAL with a knock filter.
Set up like this there shouldn't be any knock counts. If no counts but an error, then un-check this option flag:
Option Word 3 - Bit 1 - EscTt
This optional test is the ADC voltage check on a P4 style knock sensor (3.9K).
RBob.
03-15-2012, 08:41 AM
#1786
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Hey guys,
I just got my EBL Flash in today for my TA. Some background on the engine, its a 400 SBC with 24lb inj and basically everything else is stock, its also a 5spd. After doing about 12ish learns today it was still maxing out and adding on the VE around the middle of the table(VE table that shows corrections on the WUD). Should I keep letting it do learns? The graph isnt looking that pretty with it being flat way up top and not very smooth.
The other question I had was about spark knock. I am experiencing knock from 1600-4800rpms and from 40-85KPa. Its basicly squared off area of the table on the areas of spark knock table on the WUD. I have been lowing my timing in that area and even everywhere and I cant tell if its getting better. Should i just keep lowering my SA table until the knock is gone?
I just got my EBL Flash in today for my TA. Some background on the engine, its a 400 SBC with 24lb inj and basically everything else is stock, its also a 5spd. After doing about 12ish learns today it was still maxing out and adding on the VE around the middle of the table(VE table that shows corrections on the WUD). Should I keep letting it do learns? The graph isnt looking that pretty with it being flat way up top and not very smooth.
The other question I had was about spark knock. I am experiencing knock from 1600-4800rpms and from 40-85KPa. Its basicly squared off area of the table on the areas of spark knock table on the WUD. I have been lowing my timing in that area and even everywhere and I cant tell if its getting better. Should i just keep lowering my SA table until the knock is gone?
Note that this is with the proper exhaust AFR, as too rich will use up injector.
Don't worry about the VE table not being smooth. It will smooth out over time.
As for the knock, it may be false. Generally, remove half of the peak retard shown from the SA table in the areas of knock. That should greatly reduce the peak knock retard. If it doesn't then it is likely false knock.
RBob.
03-15-2012, 11:55 AM
#1787
Re: Tuning with the EBL
I'm trying to set up a starter bin for my car, so I'm sure I'll have a few more questions pretty soon.
First, I started with a manual transmission calibration, what all do I need to change to work with an auto?
TCC option word is set.
I'm getting an OD flag with the transmission in gear. In the calibration, I'm seeing a 3rd gear and a 4th gear switch. I'm pretty sure I just need to clear the 4th gear switch to make it work right. Does the third gear switch do anything in my application?
My car's an '88 GTA, 700r4 auto.
First, I started with a manual transmission calibration, what all do I need to change to work with an auto?
TCC option word is set.
I'm getting an OD flag with the transmission in gear. In the calibration, I'm seeing a 3rd gear and a 4th gear switch. I'm pretty sure I just need to clear the 4th gear switch to make it work right. Does the third gear switch do anything in my application?
My car's an '88 GTA, 700r4 auto.
03-15-2012, 02:07 PM
#1789
Re: Tuning with the EBL
Thanks Ronny, but "Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - HiGrH" is not used in the P4 flash. I assume it was replaced by option word 7 - Bit 2 - 4ThIn. I'm guessing since I didn't have to worry about 3rd gear anything in my old $6e bin, I shouldn't have to with the EBL.
All the TCC tables match an auto bin I compared to.
All the TCC tables match an auto bin I compared to.
03-15-2012, 02:23 PM
#1790
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Thanks Ronny, but "Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - HiGrH" is not used in the P4 flash. I assume it was replaced by option word 7 - Bit 2 - 4ThIn. I'm guessing since I didn't have to worry about 3rd gear anything in my old $6e bin, I shouldn't have to with the EBL.
All the TCC tables match an auto bin I compared to.
All the TCC tables match an auto bin I compared to.
If it shows 3rd, change the 3RdIn flag: Option Word 7 Input Polarity - Bit 1 - 3rdIn
If it shows OD, change the 4ThIn flag: Option Word 7 Input Polarity - Bit 2 - 4thIn
The 700R4 usually doesn't have a 3rd gear switch. So the WUD will show either: P/N, 1/2, or OD.
Meaning of changing the flag is: if set, unset it, or, if unset, set it.
RBob.
03-16-2012, 07:31 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
Yes: Option Word 2 - Bit 5 - HiGrH
Easiest to use the WUD, key-on, engine-off, foot on the brake, place shifter into any position except park or neutral. If the WUD displays 'D' you are good to go. If it displays 'OD' then flip the option flag.
IIRC how this works, with an N/C switch the flag needs to be checked. HiGrH is for high when in 4th. An N/C switch will be low in 1,2 & 3, then open for a high signal when in 4th.
RBob.
Easiest to use the WUD, key-on, engine-off, foot on the brake, place shifter into any position except park or neutral. If the WUD displays 'D' you are good to go. If it displays 'OD' then flip the option flag.
IIRC how this works, with an N/C switch the flag needs to be checked. HiGrH is for high when in 4th. An N/C switch will be low in 1,2 & 3, then open for a high signal when in 4th.
RBob.
When in unchecked the flag, reflashed and the gear still reads 0
So now what do I do, I don't want to start this up without knowing how the .bin is set up. Don't want to ruin a new trannsmission
thanks
03-16-2012, 08:41 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
I finally got around to get this done. Tranny is in and I'm ready to fire. Ran thru the above process and Gear read 0
When in unchecked the flag, reflashed and the gear still reads 0
So now what do I do, I don't want to start this up without knowing how the .bin is set up. Don't want to ruin a new trannsmission
thanks
When in unchecked the flag, reflashed and the gear still reads 0
So now what do I do, I don't want to start this up without knowing how the .bin is set up. Don't want to ruin a new trannsmission
thanks
To get the proper gear indicator on the WUD, ALT+F -> F (PreFerence), then check the box for Auto after "Gear Indicator:".
RBob.
03-16-2012, 10:23 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
Has anybody on here ever found a happy medium with the INT/BLM's?
Put the car away last fall with a pretty good tune.
Started it up today for the first time all winter. Go into Closed loop and 3 min's later after its up to temp my INT is 80 and BLM's 108.
Its always something it seems
03-17-2012, 01:18 PM
#1794
Re: Tuning with the EBL
Couple of problems I'm working with today... Again, thanks to all of you for helping a noob out! Everything is so much different than my '165, and there's just so much information to dig through!
1. The speedometer in the WUD isn't working. Thinking this might be something I missed when I started with the 6-speed calibration, or maybe I loosened the vss buffer connector when I was tugging on wires under the dash. Only thing I can think of in the bin is O-word 3 bit 4 MagVs, which is set in both auto bins I've compared. Any ideas?
2. Fan1 flag comes on in the WUD, Fan1 stays off in the engine compartment. When flashing and while ALDL pins A&B are jumpered, the fan comes on as they should.
I'll keep searching, Thanks!
1. The speedometer in the WUD isn't working. Thinking this might be something I missed when I started with the 6-speed calibration, or maybe I loosened the vss buffer connector when I was tugging on wires under the dash. Only thing I can think of in the bin is O-word 3 bit 4 MagVs, which is set in both auto bins I've compared. Any ideas?
2. Fan1 flag comes on in the WUD, Fan1 stays off in the engine compartment. When flashing and while ALDL pins A&B are jumpered, the fan comes on as they should.
I'll keep searching, Thanks!
03-17-2012, 02:56 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
Has anybody on here ever found a happy medium with the INT/BLM's?
Put the car away last fall with a pretty good tune.
Started it up today for the first time all winter. Go into Closed loop and 3 min's later after its up to temp my INT is 80 and BLM's 108.
Its always something it seems
Put the car away last fall with a pretty good tune.
Started it up today for the first time all winter. Go into Closed loop and 3 min's later after its up to temp my INT is 80 and BLM's 108.
Its always something it seems
I recall a silicone poisoned O2 sensor, did the same thing. Reports rich and pushes the fuel trims down to the point that the engine would cut out.
Although, if the engine isn't cutting out, then it likely isn't that. A bad FPR diaphragm would also cause low fuel trims.
RBob.
03-17-2012, 03:15 PM
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Re: Tuning with the EBL
Couple of problems I'm working with today... Again, thanks to all of you for helping a noob out! Everything is so much different than my '165, and there's just so much information to dig through!
1. The speedometer in the WUD isn't working. Thinking this might be something I missed when I started with the 6-speed calibration, or maybe I loosened the vss buffer connector when I was tugging on wires under the dash. Only thing I can think of in the bin is O-word 3 bit 4 MagVs, which is set in both auto bins I've compared. Any ideas?
2. Fan1 flag comes on in the WUD, Fan1 stays off in the engine compartment. When flashing and while ALDL pins A&B are jumpered, the fan comes on as they should.
I'll keep searching, Thanks!
1. The speedometer in the WUD isn't working. Thinking this might be something I missed when I started with the 6-speed calibration, or maybe I loosened the vss buffer connector when I was tugging on wires under the dash. Only thing I can think of in the bin is O-word 3 bit 4 MagVs, which is set in both auto bins I've compared. Any ideas?
2. Fan1 flag comes on in the WUD, Fan1 stays off in the engine compartment. When flashing and while ALDL pins A&B are jumpered, the fan comes on as they should.
I'll keep searching, Thanks!
> 2. Fan1 flag comes on in the WUD, Fan1 stays off in the engine compartment.
This one doesn't sound good. Since it works when in limp mode but not when commanded by the ECM, I'd say that the ECM went bad. The limp mode operation of the fan is the last gate before the driver. With the ECM control over the fan being further upstream of this gate.
If so can send it in for warranty replacement. If you want to drive the car and need the fan can use Fan 2, ECM pin F8 (Fan 1 is on E8, move to F8). Can then set up fan 2 for the proper temperatures. Note that Fan 2 output won't turn on when in limp mode and when flashing.
Can also tie the two pins together (E8 & F8) and to the fan relay wire. This will provide limp mode fan control while also allowing the ECM to control it.
RBob.
03-17-2012, 04:28 PM
#1797
03-17-2012, 06:10 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
If the INT/BLMs were OK at the beginning of Winter, it may be that for some reason the fuel pressure increased. Or the injectors are dirty. Something changed to cause them to drop like that, they are bottomed out for removing fuel.
I recall a silicone poisoned O2 sensor, did the same thing. Reports rich and pushes the fuel trims down to the point that the engine would cut out.
Although, if the engine isn't cutting out, then it likely isn't that. A bad FPR diaphragm would also cause low fuel trims.
RBob.
I recall a silicone poisoned O2 sensor, did the same thing. Reports rich and pushes the fuel trims down to the point that the engine would cut out.
Although, if the engine isn't cutting out, then it likely isn't that. A bad FPR diaphragm would also cause low fuel trims.
RBob.
Injectors are new
diaphram is new on the FPR, fuel pressure is the same as it was when I put it away
02 is working and crossing over the set point.
No exhaust leaks
Vac is the same reading as it was last summer
I have two other vettes and I put them away each winter and they start and run just fine. Seems like it aways something. sorry to vent a bit just a long day and I'm not looking forward to the INT/BLM figuring out.
03-17-2012, 09:01 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
Once I get some leaks taken care of I'll look more into this. I just find it hard to believe that I'd have to go through these items again and again.
Injectors are new
diaphram is new on the FPR, fuel pressure is the same as it was when I put it away
02 is working and crossing over the set point.
No exhaust leaks
Vac is the same reading as it was last summer
I have two other vettes and I put them away each winter and they start and run just fine. Seems like it aways something. sorry to vent a bit just a long day and I'm not looking forward to the INT/BLM figuring out.
Injectors are new
diaphram is new on the FPR, fuel pressure is the same as it was when I put it away
02 is working and crossing over the set point.
No exhaust leaks
Vac is the same reading as it was last summer
I have two other vettes and I put them away each winter and they start and run just fine. Seems like it aways something. sorry to vent a bit just a long day and I'm not looking forward to the INT/BLM figuring out.
A BLM of 108 is going to reduce the PW by 15.6%.
So a 4.0 msec PW (typical for a medium load) is first reduced by the BLM:
4.0 msec * 15.6% = 0.624 msec for a 3.376 msec PW
With the INT subtracting 0.733 msec from that for a 2.643 msec final PW.
Which ends up being a 34% reduction in the amount of fuel being delivered.
I do have a question, does the EBL 'Vette run OK?
RBob.
P.S. sorry, a little long winded...
03-17-2012, 09:44 PM
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Re: New Tranny ?
I don't believe that this is a tuning issue. The INT & BLM are removing A LOT of fuel. An INT of 80 is reducing the injector PW by 0.733 msec.
A BLM of 108 is going to reduce the PW by 15.6%.
So a 4.0 msec PW (typical for a medium load) is first reduced by the BLM:
4.0 msec * 15.6% = 0.624 msec for a 3.376 msec PW
With the INT subtracting 0.733 msec from that for a 2.643 msec final PW.
Which ends up being a 34% reduction in the amount of fuel being delivered.
I do have a question, does the EBL 'Vette run OK?
RBob.
P.S. sorry, a little long winded...
A BLM of 108 is going to reduce the PW by 15.6%.
So a 4.0 msec PW (typical for a medium load) is first reduced by the BLM:
4.0 msec * 15.6% = 0.624 msec for a 3.376 msec PW
With the INT subtracting 0.733 msec from that for a 2.643 msec final PW.
Which ends up being a 34% reduction in the amount of fuel being delivered.
I do have a question, does the EBL 'Vette run OK?
RBob.
P.S. sorry, a little long winded...
I had to get thru a tranny leak and coolant temp switch today that wasn't working.
What I need to do is datalog
The car runs fine..smells rich. It did this last summer to and I was never really able to get it fixed or resolved. In the fall however it acted a lot better.
This is what I noticed after going into CL.
INT would slowly drop to 80
BLM's to 108
This was all at idle
I watched my o2 sensor and it was crossing over the crossover points
Once I would rev it
INT would jump back up to 128 along with the BLM's then as it would begin to idle again it would drop back down to 80. Still in CL
So i think its a idle issue.
This was done while in Park
Fall of last year I didn't have this issue.
I will try and get a real datalog done tomorrow.
thanks