What are the differences between EBL_F_3006.BIN and EBL_F_3005.BIN. Way back, BobR used EBL_F_3006.BIN for my set-up. Auto 1985 Corvette with BluePrint heads (Aluminum) with 700R4?

Thanks

 

Do the file compare in tuner pro to see the difference. He states the heads and engine size in the txt document.

 

It was my understanding that the VAC column in the CSV dumped file is what is used for the Open Loop- AFR vs RPM & VAC table. Which if you look the VAC is just an inverse of the 0-100 MAP range. So at 80 MAP you have 20 VAC, 50 MAP = 50 VAC and 20 MAP = 80 VAC. I always assumed that table was ranged 80 VAC to 0 VAC because the VE starts at 20 kPa and goes to 100 kPa.

But that isn't really correlating with what Street Lethal said above. I didn't think that table was based off of inch of mercury (Hg), but I very well could be wrong.

 

We'll measure engine vacuum in Mercury (inHg). I'm so used to looking at a boost/vacuum gauge and not the EBL, but ideally a well behaved engine will pull around 17" to 20" of Hg at idle, which is about 40-kPa. A cammed engine for the street, maybe in the 13" to 16" Hg range which is about 55-kPa at idle. Larger cams like mine will see roughly 10" to 11" of Hg at idle, which is about 65-kPa at idle. Steady speed cruising will see roughly 6" to 9" of Hg, which is about 80-kPa. In RobertFrank's case his OL table data is reading correctly. Each cell is averaged and influenced by the cell next to it. So him being 80-kPa at cruising speeds places him at about 6" of engine vacuum (Hg), which can be confirmed with a vacuum gauge. His Open Loop target is preset to 12.8 AFR at that range purposely during warmup, as once Closed Loop enables that table is ignored until it goes into Open Loop again. Since he is forcing an Open Loop tune, he needs to set those two far right columns (10 and 0) in that OL table as 14.7 AFR up until about 2000-RPM, but keep them at 12.8 AFR from 2400-RPM and higher because that is the transition point into wide open throttle.

- Rob

 

Having trouble getting my rpm high on a cold start. I have the park IAC idle speed table set to 1050 rpm at temps 40c and below. I have the IAC max limit set 255. When the engine starts it will not idle above 800 rpm or so and the IAC is at max open 255. Spark advance about 20 deg. WB shows 11 or so AFR. All is well when it reaches 180F. My IAC setting after warmup is closed as I have the throttle blades opened a bit too much to help with the cold start. I can close the TB down to get the IAC count up to 10 or so, but it does nothing to help the cold start. This is an iron vortec head 350 using TPI.
What else controls the cold start idle rpm?

 

Looking for this using Tuner Pro. Not finding it? I am running TPI setup.

 

Hi, I took VE tables and AFR tables from the EBL_F_3006.BIN and started to re-calibrate the VE tables using VE learn sessions. Can I trust this process? Let's say I'll do about 8-10 learn sessions, trying to cover most of the MAP and RPM areas with CL and lean HWY, which are disabled. Is it enough? should I smooth it in the end?

 

IMHO yes trust the process, yes smoth after/between learns, do more learns, have fun with it, after 8-10 it should be running OK?
definatly look at the VE tables and see what they look like, as long as your exhaust gas sensor is reporting correctly the learns will show you
what the motor wants, do what makes the motor happy.

 

Truly sorry to hear RBob's passing.

Bought an EBL Locker for my Formula restoration, circa 2020.
Life has finally allocated time for me to get the engine running & tuned.
Was looking for where to download the A-to-D converter necessary for the WUD.

Bottom line, I have the complete package (EBL, installation discs, & doc printouts)
which I would be willing to fire-sale to a good home. Make offer ...

I also have the Edelbrock High rise & Enhanced Truck 2 barrel Injector, fire-sale ...

Add my voice to the condolences, & loss of technical expertise.

Ken Koester / l_dis_travlr
koester_ken@comcast.net

 

Since your profile shows you have a 1990 Formula 350 do you have the P4 EBL system?

 

Hi all,
Just wanted to share an experience with you.
I’ve been using EBL for several years now. Lately, I wasn’t satisfied with the tune, especially with the VE tables. I copied new VE tables from EBL_F_3006.BIN and started the VE learn sessions for a fresh start. I made about 12 sessions, CL was disabled, and no PE nor lean cruise. The sessions included WOT, cruising at varies MAP and RPM, hard and light accelerations. After I finished the 12 VE learn session. I turned CL, PE, and lean cruise on.
Later on I started to use Chat GPT for some corrections in varies condition. Of course Chat GPT knows about my setup. It made a few corrections regarding WOT, spark and some VE cells.
In the end, I asked it to smooth the VE tables:

 

Just use the smoothing function in tunerpro

 

Any how-to instructions?

 

At the top of the VE table look at function-there is a smooth. I usually put in value point 8 then click execute 2 to 3 times.

 

Just curious, did you input the entire VE table values into CHAT GPT? If so, that does show the power of AI and it's just getting started. It doesn't look that bad actually. This is our bone stock CFI tune VE table low speed that came with the EBLs we sent out. The tune was done by Street Lethal. You are getting there... We used three C3 82 corvettes running the EBL back when we did this.

 

I'm curious to see how it would be beneficial to use ChatGPT in using the ebl flash. I was even thinking it would be AWESOME to have a complete stand alone A.I system for tuning. Would probably take all the fun out of it lol

 

As I wrote before, after 10-12 VE learn sessions, I started using GPT. Using this feature in TunerPro, I exported the data (bin) to a text file and fed it to Chat GPT.

 

That is obviously a NEW feature in TunerPro RT, newer ver than 5.0? I'm still using the older ver 4.14 that I like and works.

 

VE learns are part of the WUD software.

 

WELL aware of What's Up Display capabilities, but you made it sound that Tuner Pro was involved, not WUD. I've only been using EBL for over 12 years now though.

 

You can smooth with TunerPro RT (I'm using ver 5). But I let GPT to do the smooth. I also tried as @drive it suggested. I got almost similar results.

 

IMHO, the "Interpolate" (in TP Pro 5.0) function works better/quicker than simply smoothing.

BTW - I haven't been here in a while but, on another forum I heard someone may take over running/building the EBL. Has anyone heard this?

 

I haven't heard of that, but I think it would be fantastic to see Bob's legacy continue.

 

Hi, I know you are using Camaro, and this parameter might be irrelevant. I'm running EBL on my 1985 Corvette.
Entry: DGD - Injector Flow Scalar
Value sent to the Digital Dash (Corvette CrossFire's) as the injector flow rate constant. Used to
calculate the MPG and fuel used values. The value to be entered is the flow rate of one injector in
pounds per hour. If using a 4bbl or dual 2bbl TB's, the flow rate is that of two injectors in pounds per
hour.
With the various densities of fuel this value may need to be tweaked a little. Increasing the flow rate
will lower the MPG.
My DGD parameter is 47.2 (I cannot remember why I put this value). The Vette consumed about 24.5 MPG (full, drive, full). The DIC shows much worse, about 19 MPG. How can I fix it? My injectors are Bosch III 25.4 lbs.

Thank you.

 

I put the WUD on a new computer, and it seems to work. I can read all the sensors, record a data log, look at trouble codes, etc.
However the option to FLASH a new BIN is grayed out. I've never experienced this before.
Anyone have any suggestions?

 

It's possible that the serial connection for the 'receive' wire (at the ECM) is open, or that another application has grabbed the 'transmit' signal on the computer. I had that happen when I was sharing the com port with WUD and WinLog-EBL (with com sharing software). I could see a screen and datalog for both applications, but when I needed to flash I had to close the WinLog-EBL screen.

 

Any thoughts on how I would check the 'receive' at the ECU? I rebooted, and went to WUD without opening anything else, so I don't think it is a conflict with other software.

 

Just curious, what version of Windows are you running with WUD?

 

New computer is Windows 11. Old one was Windows 10.

 

OK, thanks. Well, that's odd, never saw that before and have been using EBL for 12+ years now. Did this jus happen when you loaded it to the new laptop or did it also that this with the old one?

 

I never had the problem before either. This is my first time trying to FLASH with the WUD on the new computer so I don't know if it has always been an issue on this new laptop or something changed. Like I said, all the other features are working normally.
I also tried to run WUD 'as administrator' thinking maybe there was some permission issues in Windows, but that didn't help.

 

I would try the uninstall and reinstall.

 

G'day, I am just getting back into tuning my 1988 K1500 with 350 TBI/ 700R4/ 4.11. It is all stock except for Hedman long tube headers and has 280,000 miles on the clock. It has been some time since I set up my current tune and over that time I have been doubting myself as to whether I was on the right path, so I thought I would start again from scratch with the benefit of having read alot more on here about it. The one question that has me perplexed is the starter bin provided on the disc. I am using EBL F 2011 as per my truck, and I set the BPC calculation from the EBL Utility at 164 for 55#/Hr injectors running 11 PSI. Now when I go out and do a Open Loop wide band VE learn the WB shows it running at AFR of 9 and the VE learns show -12 everywhere. I tried taking 10% of the whole VE table and was still showing -12 everywhere so I did the -10% again and it came up to AFR 10 but still -12 across the board. My question is should I be changing the BPC setting, and therefore everything else that is associated with it, or should the VE tables be dropped considerably. Why this has me perplexed is I can't understand why Rob would have provided a bin with the base VE tables so far from ideal? When I looked at the factory tunes VE tables they are considerably lower than the EBL bin. I am aiming for a tune that provides smooth running and acceptable mpgs as it is my daily driver. Any advice will be much appreciated.

 

Hello,

First time posting and hoping for help with my tune. I've been running EBL for about 6 months and still trying to move past open loop. 1991 K1500, Smeding 383 Stroker 407hp/462tq 9.8:1 compression, 212/222 duration @.050, 700r4, and SPR Performance 46mm throttle body with matched 65#/hr injectors (actual flow 78#/hr), set at 14 psi. I have finally installed a WB O2, which has drastically helped with VE tables. I ran out of room on the table, so last week I adjusted BPC and working to get the lower MAP areas dialed in. I did try transitioning to closed loop but my VE tables were going through very large changes, so I am back to OL. SA tables are based on 84Elky thread, no further adjustments made yet but it REALLY woke the engine up. For the VE learns I have disabled PE, DFCO, Hiwy, and BLM/INT locked at 128. Apart from some idle adjustments, AE - MAP PW and AE - TPS PW were reduced 25% to account for injector changes. I have tried O2 gain adjustments with PRP - Gain Multiplier vs Airflow and Gain vs O2 Error in either direction with no change in my O2 mv or gms/sec.I have gone as far as increasing one or both by 25%, and decreasing by 50%.

1. For SA tables in the high MAP and low RPM area, should this be decreased and why? Most references I see have this area reduced significantly. I have experienced 0 knock with any table used. I know my sensor works as I get a false knock when turning off the engine due to an exhaust rattle (new muffler and hangers ready to be installed). I want to tow with this truck if that helps.
2. Do prop gains affect OL? I haven't seen a meaningful change in the O2 mv or gms/sec. As I understand these should be around 6-7 at idle for my application.
3. Injector DC is at 80% WOT with my adjustments to AE, but idle is at 6%. Is this appropriate?
4. I want to start incorporating PE and Hiwy lean cruise, when is an appropriate time in the tune to add these back in?
5. What next steps do you recommend?


Attached are some images of VE, SA, and datalog. Datalog has mixed driving, WOT from a stop at 14:30 and 15:30. Thanks for the help

 

GrimsterGMC, I think we've chatted a couple of times over at GMT400. I had a hard time getting my VE tables dialed in but finally figured it out with enough trial and error. Whatever changes you make to BPC you must do the inverse to your VE table. So if you decrease BPC by 5%, increase VE table 5% and that will get you much closer for the next learn. The values I landed on seem to be working well even though it isnt identical to the EBL utility. The more spread you have under "100" the better the fidelity. The VE table will resemble your torque curve.

If you changed injectors, check the flow rate and adjust accordingly in AE - MAP PW and AE - TPS PW. My setup is at 14psi and I have 65#/hr injectors that flow at an actual rate of 78#/hr @14.7psi. Stock injectors were 61#/hr I assume at about 13 psi. So calculate (StockFlow/NewFlow), or (63#/hr / 76#/hr) = 0.82 for my application. Highlight the cells in the two AE tables and multiply by your flow difference. Here is the calculator I used for mine. Fuel Injector Calculators – DeatschWerks. That will also affect your DC%. This can be taken a step further with adjusting the duration via AE - MAP Filter and AE - TPS Filter, but I have not done this yet. As I understand a lower value yields a slower flow but nets higher volume.




Adjusting BPC and AE tables brought my VE tables from a low of 16 and high of 53 to a spread of 27 to 98. Last week I ran out of room and had cells exceeding 100, so I increased my BPC and decreased VE +-7%. You may have to do the opposite. I hope this helps.

 

G'day mate, thanks for the reply. I was just reading your thread over on GMT400 and followed you. I will read up on what you have done as it relates to my situation.

 

After chasing a no start issue and replacing the distributor to fix it, I am starting over with a fresh tune. I am happy with the VE learns so far but I am running into an odd issue where the ECM appears to lose power for a second or so while driving. I have captured it in a datalog when this occurs. The engine stumbles for a brief second and then continues to run. Datalogging continues. I noticed that the Prom ID is blank as well.

Is this a sign that the 12v ignition power connection or the ECM grounds are unstable? It is rare that it happens, perhaps once in a ten minute drive.
Does the EBLP4 setup have a battery that allows this datalog to occur and capture the issue even though 12v ignition power could be missing?

If there is no battery to power the ECM, then its not likely a complete power loss is it.

Thanks
Ryan

 

yes, sure sounds like an electrical issue. Bad grounds can cause a lot of strange things to happen.
What happens to all the other electronics in the car when this happens? Do you see the tachometer bounce around, or lose any lights, instruments in the dash?

 

To be honest I have no idea what happens to the rest of electronics. Good point. See if this issue is isolated to the ECM or the whole car. It is so brief, it is hard to watch for. I only experience it as a very brief stumble and can then find it in the datalog.

 

So I'm revisiting this issue sans the knocking (turns out it was a bad intake pushrod). I'm still getting a pretty good rich spike on the throttle lift in the low map areas. I set my enleanment factor to .98 and it hasn't helped as much as I'd like. Letting off the the throttle i spike to about 12.8-13.5 but If I lower the VE tables in those areas during actual throttle it runs lean at around 15.9-16.3 in the 20-30 MAP. how can I reign it in ?

 

I wanted to throw my current BIN and most recent WOT datalog up here for some critique. I have a ZF6 swapped 85 Corvette running Flash II. Bone stock bottom end, 10.0:1 compression, AFR 195 Comp port heads, 280XFI roller cam, 1206 Miniram intake, 36lb/hr injectors, 52mm BBK throttle body, long tube headers, x-pipe into LT1 mufflers, 3.90 gears. Dyno last year was 340whp @ 5900RPM and 310lb/ft @ 5400RPM. Had issues with erratic rpm signal above 5000rpm and the throttle cable was too long so I was a bit shy of WOT. Manifold pressure at the end of the pull dropped to 93kpa. After fixing the throttle I now have 96kpa all the way up to the 6400rpm redline. A new small cap HEI distributor also significantly cleaned up RPM signal.

I have done a ton of revisions to this tune (67 since the H/C/I swap, 45 updates with the stock L98 before that). I am pretty happy with WOT performance and plan on going back to the dyno and/or the drag strip soon to see if I have improved on some areas. My focus lately has been CL cruise and MPG. Idle quality is great in my opinion considering the cam I am running. It is pretty happy around 850RPM with 57kpa of manifold pressure. AFR hovers around mid to high 13s. Now I am just fighting some erratic AFR and light surging during cruise. I have played with Prop Gains and swing points and it has gotten better but I feel like there is definitely room for improvement. NB learns are still pulling fuel in spots. My last tank of gas with a bunch of highway driving was about 14mpg. Anyone here running a similar setup with any suggestions for improvement? I know a lot of people at this point just stick with open loop but I am not giving up just yet lol

 

I get some of that erratic AFR and surging as well. Given we both have manuals and similar(ish) setups it might just be nature of the beast when it comes to tuning these cams on a batch fire setup.

BTW, give this XDF a try. You can hover over any parameter in tunerpro and it will show that parameters description which I pulled from the EBL documentation files. It is a huge assist when playing with things.

 

brilliant.. I was thinking how annoying it is that nothing was commented like I'm used to seeing with other codes.

will he down loading this soon.

 

I figured that as well, but wanted to make sure there wasn't some sort of major BLM change someone with a similar combo came across that would smooth things out. I'm still really happy overall though. I figured anything below 2000rpm would be almost useless with this cam but I've been able to get it to cruise happily as low as 1400rpm with light load. Just has the occasional surge at cruise that usually clears up pretty quick.

Thanks! That XDF is awesome! I've had the EBL calibration tab open in my laptop web browser for years now going back and forth xD I was thinking today how nice it would be to have a way to highlight areas during a datalog, read through the WhatsUp document and realized the space bar or tab key already does that. So that is my next plan is to start marking problem areas in my tune and start manually adjusting the VE and SA tables to smooth it out a bit more.