The phone cord plugs into the db-9 connector (included) and that plugs into a serial port on the laptop. Select that serial port in the WUD. If you are not sure which serial port it is try each one in turn on the WUD. Engine doesn't need to be running, just key-on is enough to produce a data stream.

The dash in TPrt will only work if it is connected to the ALDL line of the ECM. The DigitalDash option in the BIN should also be turned off. Personally, I wouldn't even worry about the ALDL mode and TPrt. Just use TPrt to talk to the Ostrich and modify the BIN.

RBob.
----------
Before you dump the log, un-check the box that says 'single header.' A header line will then be included at each 1-second tick over. When 'single header' is checked only one header will be included at the very beginning of the dump. This is useful when reading the .EBL dump file into Excel.

RBob.

 

I've been through them all and only 1 and 4 don't bring up a error box but still nothing. Is there anything you can think of that I could've set up wrong.
In the ebl text it says the WUd is an .exe file but mine is a .cfg file. Is this ok?
Thanks, Mark.

 

The .cfg is a configuration file. The WUD creates and updates it with various information. Explorer is probably hiding the .exe extension of the WhatsUp program. It will do that with known file types.

What is the CPU speed of the laptop you are trying? Also, you may have to turn off items such as the infra-red port.

RBob.

 

I knew it had to be something simple....like me!
The DB9 adapters don't screw staight onto my laptop for some reason, they need the plastic retaining ridge cutting back as there is no resess on my laptop for it to fit into. I had already done this with the DB9 supplied with my Zeitronix WB so I used that thinking that all DB9 are created equal!...WRONG.
I cut back the plastic on yours so I could fit it and now I have WUD working.
Thanks for all your time Bob and the emails.
Guess I'd better start data logging! Mark.

 

Good to hear you have it working.

RBob.

 

Well I've just done a couple of runs on the way home and it all is working fine I think.
So each time I do a VE learn I seem to be opening ,bin_new and immediately 'save' .bin_new_new. This is correct? Each time it makes a new .bin to modify the last one?
Do I just keep doing this and driving until I see my wb reporting a better AFR?
At the moment it's generally in the 11.5 to 12.5 region after a couple of short 'learn' drives. When I stop the idle afr settles around 11 to 11.5.
Am I on the right track? Keep driving, each time using the _new_new (etc) .bin?
I've been reading a lot about this but it's either just going straight over my head or I'm losing something in the English/American translation!!!

 

There are no doubt better ways to proceed , but what works for me is to rename the bins before they are burnt. The prom id address is also handy for keeping track of the progression. I use the base bin and put the new(learned) one in compare, then use 1.01 as either mulitply or divide to get kinda close (don't take the full amount) to the correction made by the learn, you will need to blend the corrections with the cells that weren't modified,(some debate on this) TP has a smooth feature that is helpfull for this, Try File, save as, and then reopen your bin to experiment with, that way you can delete the mistakes with the save as bin and apply what you learned on the one you want to burn, Best of luck, Val

 

Ok, so the learned to .bin doesn't actually replace the .bin I'm running in my Ostrich, I have to use TP to update/modify it? It seemed like it was writing a new .bin each time with modified VE tables but I didn't realise I had to update the .bin myself. Do I understand you correctly?

 

The the learned to _NEW bin needs to be updated to the Ostrich via TP.

The VE Learn does create a new BIN with the new VE values. This new BIN is the one to be uploaded to the Ostrich.

Should double check that corrections are being made via the VE Learn screen. When using the WB the ECM needs to be in open loop.

RBob.

 

Val,

I recall seeing this feature but I have looked in 4.13 and 4.14 and can't seem to find it.

Never mind. Its in the toolbox. DOH!

 

can i assume the "smoothing" is for cells not seen in "learn" ?

if so i wiill assume it locates adjoining cells that were not affected and makes a correction there as well at a similar % of change?

or does it locate two cells that were affected and move the uneffected between them a comperable amount?

maybe Magnus could explain. Should one use this feature on all learns?

as i stated in another posting my VE had some ragged peaks that were learned without smoothing. since they have been manually smoothed.

 

Could someone help me with, what are hopefully, a few simple questions.
Recently when opening TPrt I'm getting a dialog box open saying 'file is larger than max file size' then TP opens with no .bin selected. Any ideas what the problem is?
Secondly, I've just done nearly 200 miles and did 4 VELearns and some data logging. When do I stop VELearn sessions? When there are no more adjustments being made? When the adjustments are small? If the later, define 'small' please!
Also, as Ronny has asked above....'smoothing'. Does it iron out the troughs and peaks? When I clicked on 'smooth' it asked me to enter a factor, any advice would be much appreciated.
I have to say also that the VELearn feature is amazing. I started the day with WB reporting everything from 11.5 up to 15 but mostly in the twelves, now it is mostly mid forteens. very pleased!Thanks for all your help guys.

 

Not sure about the file size with TP. Maybe it has to do with the length of the file name?

For the VE Learn it can be stopped once you are happpy with the way it runs. Or, as you mention the changes are small. Usually they willl start to bounce back and forth between adding and removing fuel.

It is important to get as much of the VE table coverage as possible. Then I hand smooth it using the graph of the VE table(s). Can rotate the graph by holding the Ctrl key down and grabbing a corner with the mouse pointer.

RBob.

 

Ronny,

First of all, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
As for smoothing, I started doing that about 10 bins ago. At first I was "hand smoothing" (sounds a bit risque), and it has been working well. I also started applying the same technique to the SA tables. Graphically seeing the peaks and valleys was a real eye opener for me. The SA table was a bit rough also so I have been smoothing that along with the VE table. I am beginning to get a more consistent BLM reading. Adjusting the Prop Gain v Airflow table also helps. This keeps the INT within a + - 3 points. In the last 2 bins I have also used the smoothing tool in TPRT. You need to give it a "factor" to modify either the VE or SA tables. A minimum of 3 sets of values need to be selected in order for the smoothing to function.
I believe it will apply the factor to all the values not just the unaffeccted cells. I am being conservative and using a .98 factor and leaving the WOT values out of the smoothing process. One suggestion I would make to Mangus is to "highlight" the areas on the graph where there is a difference between one bin and the other being compared. I know there's a graph that shows the diff, but I would like an easier indicator on the current VE table graph the change was made. Red would indicate that VE or SA was removed, blue/green where it was added. It would be easier to judge trends that way.

As to "When do I stop VELearn sessions?". NEVER. It goes on forever. Ask RBob.

 

Hey guys, happy thanksgiving! I'm home for a while doing some tuning now on the car. I've got the WB hooked up, now my problem is I went back to my stock injectors, and initially had them at 19psi. Now, I figured this wasn't enough fuel and I was right, with VE in the high 90s and commanding 12.5:1 I got mid 14's AFR at WOT. So I bumped it up to 24psi (which is about as high as I can push my stock spring) Now it's still ringing in at mid 14's AFR. It seems to be like this throughout the RPM range, which I thought was odd, because I'm commanding 12.5 and have something like 94 or 95 VE at very low RPM (ie 2000). Am I missing something, is there anything I should look into or am I simply just out of fuel? This should be enough to fuel about 300hp if I figure right.

 

Have you tried increasing the BPC to increase PW?

 

That was my next step, I believe it's at 96 right now. I just thought I'd be able to get it dialed in with a BPC that matches the injectors. If that will make enough difference though, I'm all for it. I'm going to try bumping it to about 110 tomorrow I think. I'll report back, with a datalog too. Thanks Dom

 

At the risk of making an even bigger fool of my self...... where do I find these cells? What are they listed as?
Also, any tips or anything to watch out for with VE Learn using BLMs?(as opposed to O/L WBo2)

 

When to quit changing values in the VE ? If it gets within 3, then mess with the SA table, then back to VE. Then back to SA. Yep, You're in tar-baby land now.

 

When doing VE learn in CL with BLM should I still have DFCO and Highway Lean disabled? I know EGR and CCP should be, but the others?

 

The BLM cell value is listed on the main WUD screen. It is also listed on the Analysis log and the .EBL dump output. All as the 'BLM.' The .EBL dump has the current cell in use listed in the Cl column. It can be guessed at which cell is in use: if the vehicle is at idle (not moving and thorttle closed) cell 0 is in use. If the vehicle is moving and the throttle is open, cell 1 is in use. Vehicle moving and throttle closed, cell 2 is in use.

RBob.
----------
It is best to turn those off. Otherwise no learn will take place when they are active. Which will reduce the coverage.

RBob.

 

That's great thanks.
On a different note, my speedo is slightly off due to re-gearing and larger tyres, is it possible to 're-programme' what the ecu sees from the speedo output to correct the vehicle speedo? Just a thought.

 

You can change what the ECM calculates as the MPH. However, this will not affect the speedometer. Your vehicle may have a DRAC. If so, it is an easy matter of switching some jumpers around. DRAC info can be found on diy-efi.org. Check the incomming and the public areas. Will be called DRAC2 or dracinfo.

RBob.

 

Fwiw I just sent my spare 8746 to Bob for the EBL upgrade Every time I look at the URL I keep thinking "Dyna Mice Fuel Injection" (DynamiceFI.com).

 

RBob, with my '7747 I would start up from cold and the motor would hold a high, clean running idle for a minute or so, slowly lowering as it warmed up. Now it starts and holds the high idle for a second or so before lowering right down to a steady but noticeably rich idle for a while which soon smooths out, presumably as it goes into open loop (I have a heated o2)
Is this intial cold start idle controlled soley by the AFR vs CTS&VAC table?
Thanks, Mark.

 

The base open loop AFR is from that table (AFR vs CTS&VAC). After a (short) period of time this is the commanded AFR.

After startup there is a 'choke' AFR that is subtracted from the base value. This makes the commanded AFR richer. This choke AFR is decayed out over time. Slower on a cold engine, faster with a warm engine. A cold engine may take about 2 minutes to decay out the choke AFR. On a warm engine it can be as short as 15 seconds.

See the group of cal items in the table of contents as 'AFR Choke.' The table within that group that controls the additional fuel is 'Choke - AFR.' Smaller values reduce the fuel.

RBob.
----------
That is funny. I never liked the way the URL looked in all lower case. But never saw that.

RBob.

 

When doing VE Learn in o/l wb or c/l blm, is it necessary to stay out of AE or does the learn process take the added fuel and therefor lower reported afr into account?

 

Transitions cause the VE Learn to pause. This also includes items such DFCO, DE, and MAP & TPS movement.

RBob.

 

If you go to Dyna Mice , The WUD will have to stand for WHAT'S UP DOC! Is there an acceptable flexible line to plumb from higher pressure in line pump to stock flex lines at TB other than the braided armor stuff? I don't have much faith in the napa stuff at carb level pressures. Thanks, Val

 

Hey guys, just got my ebl and I am having trouble doing a learn. I followed the instructions on how to mod the bin and did turn off egr,ccp and raised the tps% to enable pe mode. The trouble is that it looks like the ve learn is active but the cursor always stays yellow indicating that learn is inactive. Any thoughts?

 

For a VE Learn via the NB O2 sensor, the ECM needs to go into closed loop with BLM learning active. The BLM learning is internal to the ECM. There are 2 steps for the ECM to do an actual BLM learn: closed loop allows the INT to move. Then learn mode allows the BLM(s) to move.

If using a WB O2 for VE Learn, the ECM needs to stay in open loop. To do this change the closed loop enable temperature to a high value.

RBob.

 

Bob,
I am using the nb learn feature.The settings are correct for this feature. I think it may be my perception of what it is supposed to do. After doing a learn I did see (after a couple of looks) that the entire 2000 rpm row had been modified by the learn. What I am not seeing that I thought that I should are the corrections on the VE learn screen on the WUD. Don't get me wrong everything is working fantastic!. After taking 10% out of the fuel table and taking out some timing its running stronger than ever. I'm at the point where the blms are between 131 and 133 and trying to get the learn to tidy things up a bit. Thanks for all your hard work and the EBL I love it!

Edit: Got it working! I changed the coolant temp from celsius to farenheit for this good ol american boy to read easier but didn't raise the coolant temps to reflect the change. That caused the ve learn temp to be too low to work. Thanks to Bob for his patience and help.

 

VAL: for the replumb i used aeroquip push fit synthetic hose. the fittings are specific to it. they are barbed. you heat the hose in water and push fitting on. reusable as well just lose the inch of hose on fitting. the part # are here somewhere. search. i think other manufacturers as well as summit have a similar product. EFI rated of course. unfortunately NOT inexpensive. but so easy to plumb.

 

RBob,

I have been working on an idle issue for a while now. Basically it occurs when I start motor cold. As it warms up, it finally gets to near operating temp at 80C. When it does, the motor starts to go lean and begins to stumble. Stlsvr cuts in bringing motor back. It does this 2-3 times, then finally idles. It does not happen when I start motor warm.
Also, still have O/L idle running in the low 11s for AFR. Once it goes into C/L it starts to climb up after the C/L Cold Timer has expired. But it seems that nothing I do to the O/L v CTS v MAP table makes any difference or to the Choke AFR table for O/L warmup. Does running a VAFPR make a difference here?
I’ll post this on the forum so that others may get the benefit of your response.

 

Southernspeed,
I have replaced a 7747 also and was wondering if changing the afr/coolant/vac table fixed your cold start idle issues. I am having the same issue. I did mod the Iac vs coolant table decay rate but can only go as low as .39 which helped a little but not like the factory idle. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Tim

 

>As it warms up, it finally gets to near operating temp at 80C.

I'd have to see a data log of this to get a better idea of what is happening. It may be a do-do area where the intake manifold isn't quite up to temperature. I would imagine that the ECM is in closed loop by now. So I would expect this to take care of a lean area.

> Also, still have O/L idle running in the low 11s for AFR.

Changes to the 2 tables you mentioned control the commanded AFR. And should make a difference. Recall that the OL AFR table is VAC based, not MAP.

You mentioned the VAFPR. I don't believe having it vacuum referenced is affecting this. However, from data logging the fuel pressure transducer I have seen some interesting pressure changes with temperature.

The top hat that holds the spring will expand as it heats up. This changes the fuel pressure. An aluminum hat will be worse then a steel hat.

RBob.
----------
There is a parameter that delays the idle down. Can increase this to have the engine sit at the key-on init position a little longer. Isn't the best way to go, but can help.

It woudl be better to increase the desired idle speeds at colder temperatures. If an auto trans be sure to change both tables (manual is always in 'drive'). Increasing the idle speeds is basically how the '7747 works. On a cold engine there is only an upper and lower limit. No real idle speed. The upper limit can be quite high.

On the EBL once the idle down completes the ECM goes into a controlled idle speed.

RBob.

 

Bob........if you have time write this all down in a book....I'll buy it just so I can quit the copy/paste...............

PS........even with temps down in the lower 20's last week the car runs better than ever in the cold.

FYI I drive mine year round........

 

RBob,

Sent log of this happening.

 

There is a parameter that delays the idle down. Can increase this to have the engine sit at the key-on init position a little longer. Isn't the best way to go, but can help.

It woudl be better to increase the desired idle speeds at colder temperatures. If an auto trans be sure to change both tables (manual is always in 'drive'). Increasing the idle speeds is basically how the '7747 works. On a cold engine there is only an upper and lower limit. No real idle speed. The upper limit can be quite high.

On the EBL once the idle down completes the ECM goes into a controlled idle speed.

RBob.[/quote]

Bob, what I have done is to change the IAC powerup init steps to follow the 7747's IAC vs Coolant table and slowed down the IAC idle run down rate. This helped a little . In less than a minute I am at what my regular idle in park should be. I'ts a little fast as the vehicle doesn't warm up that quick. I also tried zeroing out the Idle run down rate hoping it would just work off the Powerup at init steps coolant table. Found out it is just the reference point. Which two tables are you referring to, I've gone over the explanations of all the IAC and its just not coming to me to which you are referring. Thanks, Tim

 

What changes are required when running w/o a knock sensor? I set the "KNK - Min CTS to enable" to max, and made sure the BstNK option is unchecked. Anything else? Speaking of knock sensors, what is the recommended sensor to use?

Also, for the N/V ratios can you clarify between 1stHi and 1stLo? Is 1stHi the same as reverse?

 

One more question. The WhatsUp manual mentions that the Learn-From and Learn-To bin can be the same file. If you do this in combination with a WBO2, Ostrich emulator, and Mark's EmUtility tool, does this mean your VE table would be updated on the fly?

 

EmUtility It sure does look that way. Once the VE Learn is stopped and the file written the EmUtility tool should upload it to the Ostrich. I had not seen that tool until you just posted it. But reviewing what is at the link, sure enough, a real-time updater.

RBob.

 

The 2 changes you made is sufficient to disable knock retard. Can also zero out the attack table(s) if desired. For a sensor, just get a TBI vehicle sensor for the engine size. If an engine such as a 383, just go with a 5.7l sensor. Not much else you can do.

I believe the ESC module to be more important. Try to get a BLH from an early carb'd f-body.

N/V ratio: 1st Hi should be halfway between 1st and 255. So if 1st ends up at 118, then 1st Hi should be 187 = ((255 - 118) / 2 ) + 118

RBob.

 

There are 2 tables that set the desired idle speed. Can't recall the exact names of them. One is for 'in park/neutral' and the other is 'not in park/neutral.' They are by the coolant temperature. The names may be along the lines of 'Desired idle speed vs CTS.' I'll post the exact names later.

RBob.


{edit: here are the names of the idle speed tables:

IAC - Idle Speed: Drive
IAC - Idle Speed: Prk/Neut

The park/neutral table idle speeds should always be a tad higher then the drive idle speeds.
}

 

Got it.

RBob.

 

Ahhh... I was under the impression that VE Learn would update the bin over time as opposed to a single update when VE Learn is stopped. This would still save some time versus using TunerPro RT to upload the new bin, but not exactly what I was hoping for. As a feature suggestion, how about offering a "streaming" update mode for VE Learn (after X samples in a cell that cell is updated)? This way you could just hook it up and drive, and with the help of EmUtility your active bin would be updated as you drive. For now I suppose I can stop VE Learn every so often to update the active bin.


I'm sorry, I don't quite follow. As I understood it, the N/V ratio is the ratio of rpm's to mph which is unique to each gear. The higher the gear (lower numerically), the lower the N/V ratio. In the table I see entries for 1stLo, 2ndLo, 3rdLo, 4thLo, and 5thLo, but the presence of 1stHI is confusing me. 1st gear is 1st gear, it should have only one N/V ratio just like the rest of the gears??

 

I'm not sure about streaming the changes as they occur. When you watch VE Learn make the changes to the bin, you can see what was once an enrichment turns out to be a leaning of a particular VE/MAP cell. The more data you gather the more accurate the final result will be. So it would seem that when you first start to drive you may be subject to changes that would make driving a bit inconsistent. And then there's the issue about how surrounding cells may affect each other. Just my $.02. I'm certain RBob may have already noodled this.

 

Agreed, that's why I thought there could be a requirement of some sort before updating the cell/BIN. I suggested the sample count only because that's the criteria I've been personally using when dialing in my 8746 (or "was using" I should say, my new Dyna Mice ECU will replace it tomorrow ). With a WBO2 I would expect it could dial it in pretty close in relatively short order?

It's just a suggestion for Bob to explore, at first glance it sure sounds like a convenience / time-saver feature (no need to pull over and update the bin anymore). It might not have been Mark's intent for the EmUtility, or Bob/Jon's intent with VE Learn, but the two programs sure seem to complement each other. I plan to give it a try at least, I was just looking for a way to automate the updates (for now I still need to pull over).

 

I switched the Lo & Hi labels. I didn't have the doc's nearby and goofed on which was which.

The 1st Hi is supposed to be half way between 1st Lo and 255. This entry is for the ECM to know when the vehicle isn't really in first. Say coasting or between shifts.

RBob.

 

I have considered auto updating the BIN real time. Problem was that there wasn't an easy way to do it. With the EmUtility now there is. Apparently it supports a varity of devices, which helps out considerably. I'll make a note of a running update feature for a future release.

RBob.