I am looking at the ebl as a way to cure the slow aldl of my 7747 instead and instead of buying an lc-1 kit and I got recommended to the ebl. My question is do you need anything besides the wideband o2 sensor or does the ebl have a wb o2 controller built into it?

Also has anybody used dual 2bbl tbi's with the ebl?

I'm trying to find a setup that I can jimmy around to pass CA smog standards and I was planning on using the street 180 afrs and the edelbrock tbi to mpfi kit then just tuning for stoich and running some additive but I was also wondering it there would be a way to do it with dual tbi's. Maybe have a setup using the same setup they have for dual carbs where one carb is used until about 50 % throttle then the other kicks in. I'm just thinking out loud here. Sorry for the hijack.

Oh yeah 1 more question. Can I have him solder up my prominator pro in there when he converts it?

I just spent 300 bucks on the prominator and would like to keep it.

 

P/N? Also, what about the wiring harness that plugs into it?

Do any offsets need to be used with the AutoProm? Does the red stripe on the ribbon wire go to #1 pin on the EBL?

Thanks!

 

To use a WB setup will also need the controller. The output of the controller will then go to a data acquisition port on the EBL setup.

For dual TBI's there is the 4-injector upgrade. This allows 4 TBI injectors to be properly driven.

The Prominator's work with the EBL. ECM with the Prominator goes to Speedtronic's, they remove and re-configure the Prominator, ship both to DynamicEFI. The EBL is installed along with the Prominator and returned to the customer.

RBob.

 

The Autometer fuel pressure transducer is part # 2246. It is a 0-100 psi fuel pressure transducer. I don't know which connector it uses.

AutoProm: not sure about offsets. The base BIN for the EBL is 16 kB ('128 kb PROM size). If using a larger PROM need to load the top of hte PROM.

Red stripe to pin #1 on EBL. May be a white dot on the EBL socket.

RBob.

 

RBob, you know I am thinking about using this on my big block el camino. I was thinking, where at in the ebl xdf file, and the bin, are the settings fot the second set of injectors. Also, with all that injector, with the PW be able to stay over 1.7 ms to idle smooth? Not sure what the wagon is idling at off had though. Or do you just add up all four pph values, (using your fp of coarse), and the ebl takes it from there?? I may even get a holley 4 bbl tb for the wagon, since I am turboing it. I may not have to use the aux injector plate. Thankx

 

The 4-injector setup is a hardware upgrade to the ECM. It allows for 4 injectors to be properly fired in a Peak'nHold fashion. The injectors are paired up in parallel. With 2 injectors firing every other plug firing.

RBob.

 

Hey All,

I just got my EBL up and running and have to say, WOW! It is running like it never ran before! Rbob truly deserves a big THANK YOU for all the work he has done.



I have a question now that I've migrated my old SA and VE tables and done some data logging:

At WOT the DC% is maxed at 100 much of the time. To give some background, this is a 350 with a mild cam and aluminum heads with a manual transmission. The tbi is dead stock though, with 61 Lb injectors and stock fuel pressure.

I know 100% DC means I need more fuel but am I missing something? Could the PE or AE be messed up and requesting more fuel than necessary? I will be hooking up an LC-1 over the next few days and am hoping it will shed some light... Any suggestions for a next step?

 

I had the same issue.......start raising the fuel pressure up until you get the duty cycles down. Or get larger injectors.

 

So does the 4 injector up grade work with a holley commander tbi? Will all the plugs work with the stock harness?

 

Yes, it will work with any 4 PnH TBI injectors. As for connector compatability, there may be some differences. The TPS should match up. The IAC can be either the 4 square or 4 flat connector. Don't know which uses which (harness vs. TBI). The actual Holley injectors (Delphi units) use a different connector then the GM TBI setups. They do sell a pigtail unit to wire it in.

RBob.

 

I've been reading EBL threads for hours with much interest. Forgive me if this has been covered but I may have missed it...it's been a long evening's read!
If I go for the EBL, can I use the bin I've modified for my stock ECM ('7747) with my Ostrich and just load it straight to the EBL ecm?
I've got my tuning much good at present and don't fancy starting again from scratch. The EBL seems like an obvious and good upgrade but would also fire the crossfire set up I want to use with a 383.
So...can I just plug my programmed Ostrich into the EBL ecm and it'll run like my old '7747/Ostrich combo?
Thanks for any advice.

 

Fortunately, No. The reason for that is the code in EBL is sooooo much better than the 7747. You WILL want to convert it over. You can start with the same or similar settings, but then you'll find out how much better the EBL code allows your car to run, like say using a VAFPR in the manner it was intended to be used. With the vacuum port hooked up for engine vacuum.

I know its not the answer you wanted, but you'll thank RBob for it later. Trust me.

 

OK, thanks. Looks like I'll have to bore the wife with lots more data logging runs then!

 

Well I've ordered my EBl (thanks RBob) and a WB O2 set up. One question though, can the WB O2 replace my stock O2 sensor or does it work in conjunction with it?
If I have to use both, does the WB one need to be close to the motor like the stock one or are the heated?
Thanks for any info.

 

The WB will not replace the stock setup. Closer to the motor is better but it is heated so you have some slack. The WB is only working when you are datalogging and you don't even have to use it then but it is extremely helpful when playing with PE and AE tuning when the NB is useless.

 

W.B. can also be used for doing VE learn sessions, there should be an offical RBob list of stuff to accomplish this somewhere, my memory is fuzzy at best, (I slept once or twice since then), but here goes, disable closed loop by setting entry temp way high, same for Hwy,DFCO, and setBLM/INT min/max to 128, Leave DE active.( Thanks, gents) you will need to get into preferences and select which WB you are using and will also need to enter the WB program in the LC1(?) and change /select it's output to match the settings in preferences. No doubt I have missed something here and hopefully the knowledgable ones will correct my omissions and errors. The WB is also great for checking Hwy mode once you are able to use it,the info is in this section, page 5.You will really like this set-up.

 

Don't forget to disable CCP when doing Learn VE with either WB or BLM.


Also:

RBob "AutoProm: not sure about offsets. The base BIN for the EBL is 16 kB ('128 kb PROM size). If using a larger PROM need to load the top of the PROM."

I did this using TPRT. Just use the bin stacker tool included. Then there's no worry on the offset.

 

Well, with the integration of the IAT in the EBL for TBI systems, my car runs better then without it. But my question here is, how do I adjust the temp settings for fueling. Since it's getting colder here in PA, my car is running different. No specs just yet as to where the fueling changes went, richer or leaner, but I would like to know how these tables work and what ones to adjust. RBob, maybe you could chime in here. Sorry for the "silly" question, but I only have experiance tuning the TBI $42 mask, and the ebl. So the IAT vs CTS and other tables are new to me in the adjustment area.

 

When doing a VE Learn with WBO2, should EGR be disabled?

 

RE Bathtub VE Table....Thankyou so much,(couple month lag here) how can I tell when too much bias has been added, ( Am up to 763 usec in the 11.2-14.4 volt range ... I never knew when to quit). Am still foggy on the 0,1,+2 cell stuff, are these different cells different interpetations of the values in the ve tables? There is still a lean spot at entry of idle which still triggers a recovery surge,(greatly diminished). DFCO has not been active at or near the event, so I am guessing that it is when the step from decel to idle (cell 2 to 0 )is made. Is there a chance that I am thinking correctly about this?(probability small).. Am running closed loop with open loop idle.Thanks,Val

 

The main table to setup the use of an IAT is this one: IAT/CTS - Blend Filter

It is used to mix together the CTS and the IAT values based on engine airflow. As the airflow increases the amount of CTS is reduced. Here are two sets of values. The first table (iat-cts1) is the stock EBL values, which are based on an underhood snorkel aircleaner. Basically a stock setup with the IAT in the aircleaner, and a stock TBI intake with a water jacket.

The second table (iat-cts2) is from a performance engine. It has the air ducted from the cowl sealed off from the engine. There is a small water jacket under the plenum. In this setup the IAT sensor is placed behind the front grill.

Very nearly the same table is used on another vehicle. In this vehicle the air is picked up from in front of the radiator, with the IAT located in this airbox. There is no added manifold heat, and it is a port injected engine.

The actual tuning of this table needs to be done over time. As the seasons change notes need to be taken on the ambient temperature and BLM values. I just tweak them a little over time until things steady down. At the same time as the seasons change, so does the gas. Here in PA we get oxygenated fuel in the winter. This will affect the AFR which changes the BLM values. Just need to get it close.

RBob.

 

Yes, disable the EGR along with the CCP. For the CCP can just plug the vent line to the TB.

Once the VE tables look good, enable the EGR. Then log and monitor the BLM. To tweak in the EGR fueling change the 'EGR - BPC Multiplier vs VAC table.' This affects the BPC to reduce the fuel based on the volume of EGR.

Once that looks good, reconnect the CCP. No VE tuning is required for the CCP.

RBob.

 

The cells 0, 1, & 2 are different BLM cells. Cell 0 is use for idle (with open loop idle should always be 128), cell 1 is for cruise (open throttle), with cell 2 used for decel (closed throttle and not in idle). If there are large differences in the cell values then transitioning from one to another could cause a 'blip.'

I've never tried too much bias, so am not sure what will happen. The VE table would probably do the opposite of a bathtub curve (an inverse bathtub?).

If you'd like to data log the transition to idle and send it to me I'll take a look at it. What injectors & fuel pressure are you running? VRFPR?

RBob.

 

More entries to copy and paste into the Rbob bible........................

 

Again,thanks, especially for your patience on the 0 1 2 cells, where I think I am stuck is the relationship between 0 ,1,+2 and the VE tables. I will get a log sent off, would a copy of the bin also help?

 

RBob, on my Blazer the air is drawn from an inlet behind the grill and travels through a tube to the stock aircleaner. But on the air cleaner 'entrance' there is a heat riser from the exhaust for cold starts. Obviuosly that's only active until it warms up (if it's working right!).
So with the heat riser in mind should I use table 1 or 2? I have an Edelbrock Performer manifold which if I remember correctly has a water jacket.
Thanks, Mark.

 

Received the email, I'll get back to you a little later. . . .the relationship between 0 ,1,+2 and the VE tables. Cell 0 is in use during idle. Throttle needs to be closed and vehicle speed under 4-5 MPH, and below 1200 (or so) RPM (all are user programmable). The RPM qualifier is for the cell usage between 0 & 2, in addition to needing to be in idle for cell 0.

With this cell 0 will be used when in the lower RPM areas of the VE table. At least below the RPM for cell 0 RPM.

Cell 2 being deceleration, the throttle has to be closed. Along with the engine RPM above the cell 0 threshold and the vehicle speed above the idle threshold. This puts it into use at low MAP values, and any RPM.

Cell 2 is typically the cell in use prior to the transition to cell 0.

Cell 1 being cruise. In general, if not in cell 0, or cell 2, then the ECM is using cell 1. Throttle open (then it can't be in idle or decel) is all that is required. This makes cell 1 cover the majority of the VE table.

Example: when vehicle speed is 0, and the engine is idling, cell 0 is in use. Driver then gives the throttle a heavy blip. Throttle opens, and ECM goes to cell 1 (cruise). As the drivers lifts and the throttle closes, the ECM goes to cell 2 (decel). Once the engine speed drops below the cell 0 RPM threshold, the ECM returns to cell 0 (idle).

RBob.

 

Probably need to use table 1 and place the IAT in the aircleaner. The preheat on the aircleaner regulates the air temperature at 33°c to 55°c.

RBob.

 

Thanx RBob, If you recall our conversation a few months back, I have a 4.5 inch cowl hood with the open element right in the scoop, I also have a GMPP vortec intake, like a performer RPM, with no water jacket un the TB, which is a BBC TB. Looks like I should be using a table close to the 2nd one. I don't fully understand that table though. The %CTS, is the remaining "%", the CTS being used? and what the GmSec refering to? Thanks, being having alot of brain farts lately.

 

Yes, the CTS% is the amount of CTS out of 100%. So if the CTS% is 10%, then the IAT contributes 90% to the final value. Which is heavily biased to the incoming air.

The GmsSec value is the airflow through the engine. This is grams per second, and is calculated by the ECM. The airflow value is used in the intake manifold heating model to estimate the temperature of the air entering the cylinder.

Typically, the higher the air flow the less heat that is picked up. With the in-cylinder air being denser and requiring more fuel to obtain the same AFR.

RBob.

 

OOOO ok, Cool. This way here with the open element and more cool incoming air I'll be using the IAT more than the CTS to calculate for the fueling. That should help me run better. I gues I start with a similar table, just as an extreme to the other side of the spectrum, and see what kinda difference it makes. I'm here in PA too, so we use the same gas.

 

Are there prefered sensors to set up an EBL on a previously non injected engine? Will the EBL tolerate/ accept a sine wave vss ?

 

For items such as CTS, IAT, MAP, ask for ones from a '92 TBI Camaro. These are used on the majority of EFI cars & trucks of that era. The other vehicle I use parts from are the K van's (full size) from say '89 through '92. And Astro Vans. The MAP should be hot stamped 039 or 460.

O2 sensor: AFS-20 for 1 wire, AFS-74 for 3 wire.

If you have a vehicle with a mag VSS (sine wave) use either a 4-Out Buffer or a DRAC. Both of these units convert the VSS to a pulse train. The 4-Out Buffer is found on a lot of cars (including a bunch of f-body's). With the DRAC used on trucks (cars?). The EBL ECM needs the pulse train, not sine wave.

RBob.

 

Should the 2000 RPM lines on low speed and high speed VE tables match?Corrections made on one are not registered on the other,so I wonder. Also, for running Open loop the OL AFR vs CTS & VAc has no allowance for RPM differences+ the engine is not happy with the leaner AFR for higher RPM (cruise) at the lower RPMs. I have been maintaining higher values in the lower RPM areas to compensate,is this workable? I've tried CL but lose 2 MPG, even with HWY. Thanks, Val

 

[QUOTE=Val Snyder;3114231]Should the 2000 RPM lines on low speed and high speed VE tables match?[QUOTE]

Yes. Just copy and paste in TPro

Are you using an IAT?

 

I gotta make a comment on the EBL at this point. This morning was the first time this year that I have driven the car when the temp was in the lower thirties. I must say that even though I still have the cold air duct hooked up and no heated intake air [which I used last year] and even though my tune is far from perfect that the car drove very well compared with years past in cooler weather. The thing just pulls along even up slight hills in fifth gear even from as low as 1000 rpm. I do not attribute this to my tuning skills or the fact that it is a big cube engine. [It's a 305] So these items only point the way to it being the new code........

What do you guys think? Any body else have better cold weather manners from their EBL setups?

 

DM,
My intake is ducted from the radiator airbox. Haven't tried it out on very cold weather, but I can tell you that for tuning purposes, I can run around with the motor at 900rpm in 6th gear and then it'll just pull away as give it more gas. No lugging or chugging.

 

I have experienced better cold weather driveability and even better driveability period with BOTH the EBL and the late style PCM. I have found that I love the 4L60E behind my TBI's. The EBL is currently sitting on my shelf in my garage. It is still a great product, just lacks the support for the electronic automatic transmission that I am running. I am running a modifiied version of the chip that B&M ships with their smog legal 1993-1995 TBI truck version of their 144 mini blower, I have a Weiand, but picked up the calibration from a man who decided to play with his calibration on his supercharged/cammed 383 in his 1994 Suburban.

 

Yes to the IAT,have not messed with the bias yet but am glad to see the discussion. Thanks, Val

 

I just recently got an LC1 wideband and have it hooked up through the analog input on the EBL. So far, it is working well in logging, but the learn feature doesn't seem to be working. I have everything set up right for it to learn from the WB, the log shows the AFR correctly, but the VE correction cells never change from yellow to green signifying that learn is active, anyone know why this is happening?

 

I had the same problem... Is closed loop disabled in your calibration?

 

Nope, it goes into closed loop, I have the BLMs locked at 128 and DFCO disabled. It is also within the CTS temperatures for learning, that's why I don't understand it.

 

Make sure you have both the INT and BLMs locked at 128. Also, EGR needs to be diabled along with CCP. What are your learn parameters set at?

 

For WB learn closed loop needs to be disabled. To do this there are two option bits: one for open loop cruise, and another for open loop idle. Set those and all is well.

The reason that the ECM needs to stay open loop for WB learn has to do with all of the closed loop corrections. There are INT, BLM, and proportional adjustments being made to the PW while in closed loop.

RBob.

 

ah ok that makes sense, thanks a lot Bob and Dom. I have the EGR and CCP disabled, but I didn't realize it needs to stay open loop. Is that a qualifier for the learn mode to enable, that it be in open loop? That would make sense to avoid any corrections. I'll be sure to do that the next time I'm home.

On a note about my setup, it seems to be pushing some pretty solid power considering I'm maxing out my BBC injectors at 17psi. The WB was still hitting AFRs in the 14s as early as upper 4k RPM range. Should be interesting how it pulls when it has all the fuel it needs.

Another interesting note, is I had a BPC set at 71 initially, and upped it to 80 (and altered the VE to match the same fuel output) at one point and my idle characteristics improved immensely. This showed me that those injectors really didn't like that low BPW. I think the next time I'm back, I will put my stock injectors in and run them at about 24 psi and see what happens.

 

Would one of you Knowledgeable Ones please post the procedure for doing a dump log and veiwing it in uh notepad (or whatever a person should use),I have tried several times and just seem to lose it. I am an inept (first degree)with the computer stuff, and would really like the idiot version, Thanks so much, Val

 

Val,

I just open the datalog I want to dump, hit Dump Log. It'll create the text file using Notepad in the same folder as your datalogs. Just look for a .txt file in that folder. Should be there. You may be seeing only.dat files.

 

The dumped log is in text format, but the externsion is .EBL. On WIN95 & WIN98 Notepad sometimes can't open a file that large. In this case use Wordpad.

As Dominic mentioned the dump file is created in the same directory as the log file. The filename will be the same as the log file name with a .EBL extension. So if the log file name is:

111206_bin12.dat

The dump file name will be:

111206_bin12.ebl

RBob.

 

Thanks so much, I can't belive I was stuck on that for so long when the answer is so easy, thanks again, however, how does one get the description of the data to show over the columns?(using notepad with XP) Sorry to be a pita , Val

 

I must be missing something very simple here as I can't find any posts with othrs having this problem.
I've just wired up my EBL, WB, IAT. I have my Ostrich connected. The truck starts and runs though perhaps a little rich but I have got the .bin set for WB learn.
I've got the Ostrich connected to my laptop and the 'phone cord' from the EBL to my laptop connected. I've done the WB selection in preferances and have it open in port one....and nothing.!
WUD does nothing. Also I can't seem to get the 'dash' in TPrt to respond.
What have i missed? I'm pulling my hair out. It's late afternoon here and and I've got to get the truck out of my work yard tonight! Help would be grately appreciated!