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Read the EBL_Calibration file that should be included in your Dynamic EFI files and see how the DE tables are affected. I am pretty sure less DE Enleanment Factor will cause it to richen up and more will lean it out. I would only touch the DE - Enleanment Factor. Not touching the activation thresholds. Just remember that DE is for that very short period immediately following decel/throttle lift. You can follow it in a datalog xdf export and see when it is activated compared to WB values very shortly thereafter (due to WB reporting delays).
So I want to add an IAT to my K1500 harness. How would I do that? I grabbed a couple caged style IAT sensors and plug ins from the junkyard that I'd like to try.
Would need to get some ECM pins and then decide where you want the sensor. Once it is located, wire up its connector and then run two wires to the ECM with the ends having ECM pins. Place them in the correct spots on the connector according to the wiring diagram for your specific EBL system.
For EBL Flash the "B" location at IAT sensor connector goes to C12 at ECM with a GRN/WHT wire. Then "A" location at sensor connector gets spliced into A11 which is a shared ground between the TPS/CTS/IAT. You could probably just run this and splice anywhere in the harness to either the TPS or CPS ground wire (BLK). That way you aren't going all the way to ECM except with the main GRN/WHT signal wire.
Would need to get some ECM pins and then decide where you want the sensor. Once it is located, wire up its connector and then run two wires to the ECM with the ends having ECM pins. Place them in the correct spots on the connector according to the wiring diagram for your specific EBL system.
For EBL Flash the "B" location at IAT sensor connector goes to C12 at ECM with a GRN/WHT wire. Then "A" location at sensor connector gets spliced into A11 which is a shared ground between the TPS/CTS/IAT. You could probably just run this and splice anywhere in the harness to either the TPS or CPS ground wire (BLK). That way you aren't going all the way to ECM except with the main GRN/WHT signal wire.
Looking at my C12 green/white wire that is in my truck, that wire apparently is used for the MAP sensor according to my Haynes manual. Would I have to tie it in anywhere else? I did read somewhere that the egr wires can be repurposed for an IAT?
Your EBL Flash should have been repinned to the wiring diagram found on the website here. So your haynes diagram wouldn't be correct anymore for the ECM pinouts. I would imagine the actual C12 on your harness is empty or goes nowhere.
Ok you were right and the port was empty. I got everything set put in so how to i activate the sensor so it reads?
edit: nevermind I figured it out. It read the second I turned it on lol
Last edited by robertfrank; Dec 16, 2024 at 07:08 PM.
WB tuning has the advantage of being able to tune where BLM tuning can't. Namely WOT. That being said, in the past I have felt like I was going in circles more so with WB tuning than with BLM tuning. I still have a WB hooked up but am now doing most of my VE adjustments through BLM and then manual changes to WOT area.
How are you going in circles exactly? Major changes back and forth in the learns? Like +6 one day -6 another day? Or +-1 to 2? As the VE table comes together you can adjust your smoothing factor in the WUD preferences to dial it back some. Typically start with higher factor than lower it to like 4 or so. Also keep in mind with the colder weather the engine will likely want to be adding fuel compared to two months ago. Or even just a week ago where I am located.
Thanks for the reply. It's been cold and I haven't gotten back to this.
My problem is that my car was running rough at times of lower RPM and High MAP. When I hooked up the Whatsup monitor I saw that it was kinda LEAN at these times. So I manually added fuel in these areas and reflashed it. Drove the car and found it to be better with more fuel, AFR closer to 14 now than 15 like before..
Next started a series of logging runs to capture the data and do a VE Learn. Well, now, the learn wants to REMOVE fuel from all the spots where I just added it. I'm really scratching my head on this one.
So I was doing some tinkering around with the VE tables to figure out exactly how much of a change the tables use for adding and subtracting fuel. While manually adjusting the tables by hand I found that plus or minus for a change to be made, it's a minium of 0.39. Meaning say I want to make a very small adjustment to anywhere in the VE tables if the space says 29.00, the next level up would be 29.39 or a subtraction in the next level would be 28.61. So my question would be is there anyway to lessen that amount to be able to fine tune the table to be smoother?
So I was doing some tinkering around with the VE tables to figure out exactly how much of a change the tables use for adding and subtracting fuel. While manually adjusting the tables by hand I found that plus or minus for a change to be made, it's a minium of 0.39. Meaning say I want to make a very small adjustment to anywhere in the VE tables if the space says 29.00, the next level up would be 29.39 or a subtraction in the next level would be 28.61. So my question would be is there anyway to lessen that amount to be able to fine tune the table to be smoother?
That is part of the resolution of those tables and not adjustable. Far as I am aware the overall resolution for the tables on EBL is better than factory tables. The modded XDFs for factory tunes are comparable to EBL.
That should allow you do get a pretty smooth table. I don’t have the equation in front of me but a difference in value of 0.39 in the VE table probably doesn’t make as large of a difference as you think in fueling amount.
ok that works as far as that goes so now i have another question. How exactly are the commanded AFR tables set up outside of the Open Loop AFR vs RPM & VAC tables? showing in the pic is the moment where the EBL tries to force a 12.8 afr even when NOT in PE. I've been trying to whittle it down but I'm not exactly sure what I need to adjust. Also, my "OLARV" table has a commanded afr in the 75-80 MAP for 14.40 below 2000 rpms. I"m a bit stumped
Last edited by robertfrank; Jan 9, 2025 at 06:29 PM.
ok that works as far as that goes so now i have another question. How exactly are the commanded AFR tables set up outside of the Open Loop AFR vs RPM & VAC tables? showing in the pic is the moment where the EBL tries to force a 12.8 afr even when NOT in PE. I've been trying to whittle it down but I'm not exactly sure what I need to adjust. Also, my "OLARV" table has a commanded afr in the 75-80 MAP for 14.40 below 2000 rpms. I"m a bit stumped
If I remember correctly you are running open loop. So “commanded” is calculated from the open loop afr tables and multipliers. If AFR is not following that table, then the VE table is off in that area. In the data analysis screen you can’t see “commanded afr”. That is shown on the WUD main screen. But that commanded afr should follow the afr vs rpm table when at warm temp. Assuming your coolant multiplier table is at 0 change when warmed up fully.
Thanks for the reply. It's been cold and I haven't gotten back to this.
My problem is that my car was running rough at times of lower RPM and High MAP. When I hooked up the Whatsup monitor I saw that it was kinda LEAN at these times. So I manually added fuel in these areas and reflashed it. Drove the car and found it to be better with more fuel, AFR closer to 14 now than 15 like before..
Next started a series of logging runs to capture the data and do a VE Learn. Well, now, the learn wants to REMOVE fuel from all the spots where I just added it. I'm really scratching my head on this one.
Let the VE learns do their thing. If it takes all of the fuel out that you added and eventually stops pulling/adding fuel and you still have issues then it could be a o2 constant issue where it just wants a richer swing point. But exhaust leaks and misfires will fool the o2 sensors as well so you need to verify neither are occurring.
So I have a couple questions.... First, regarding the IAT/CTS blend filter, since I've added the IAT sensor to my EBL, I've noticed that even after I let the engine warm up to 180 degrees, it seems to run a little lean for a few minutes then seems to fatten up on its own. The Open Loop AFR vs CTS is fine where it sits for now. So how do I make the EBL focus more on the CTS than the IAT? I'm half tempted to remove the IAT at this point. Also, Id like to start running in closed loop as my mileage hasn't been absolutely wonderful running in open loop since i do drive this truck quite often. What all do I have to adjust in closed loop? I'll be digging through this thread but any help woulb be greatly appreciated.
So I have a couple questions.... First, regarding the IAT/CTS blend filter, since I've added the IAT sensor to my EBL, I've noticed that even after I let the engine warm up to 180 degrees, it seems to run a little lean for a few minutes then seems to fatten up on its own. The Open Loop AFR vs CTS is fine where it sits for now. So how do I make the EBL focus more on the CTS than the IAT? I'm half tempted to remove the IAT at this point. Also, Id like to start running in closed loop as my mileage hasn't been absolutely wonderful running in open loop since i do drive this truck quite often. What all do I have to adjust in closed loop? I'll be digging through this thread but any help woulb be greatly appreciated.
I changed the IAT/CTS table to 100% at 0 airflow and graduated down to 70% at 255 airflow and that's worked good for my combo.
He just told you the V.E. tables. these are the tables that the ecm uses for fueling in both open loop or closed loop. the ecm trims the fuel in closed loop based on O2 sensor readings
To start you shouldn't have to touch any of the o2 mv tables that control your swing points. What I did over the summer when I went from open loop to closed loop was loaded one of the base tunes as a compare tune and then went through with the comparison tool and anything related to closed loop put it to that. I did lower the trigger coolant temps however since I have a heated o2.
If you allready know this all then why are you asking? you ask what you need to adjust he told you. you said you know how to do it but then you ask "primarily". he had allready told you that, and you said you know and then I told you and you said "what OTHER tables".
Last edited by Byron454; Jan 16, 2025 at 08:58 PM.
If you allready know this all then why are you asking? you ask what you need to adjust he told you. you said you know how to do it but then you ask "primarily". he had allready told you that, and you said you know and then I told you and you said "what OTHER tables".
Please keep in mind there are still a lot of folk that are still learning-and can be unsure. It may get old to repeat things but I don't mind. I was certainly usure for a long time and I'll always be learning. So "robertfrank" ask away-sometimes it takes a while for responses.If it wasn't for the patience of Rbob (RIP) and many others I would still be floundering.
If you allready know this all then why are you asking? you ask what you need to adjust he told you. you said you know how to do it but then you ask "primarily". he had allready told you that, and you said you know and then I told you and you said "what OTHER tables".
His question was perfectly valid. There are other tables used strictly in closed loop that can adjust the fueling other than the VE Tables. In fact its arguable that closed loop can be the trickiest in getting fueling just right due to all of the available adjustments (Prop Gains, o2 Swing Points, INT and BLM tables)...best to just not post if you aren't going to be beneficial to the discussion.
Robertfrank like I was saying in the last post, I wouldn't touch anything for now and just see how it likes the base file settings for all the available closed loop settings. That can get tricky quick and if it likes the base files then you are golden after some VE learns. Just be sure your o2 sensor isn't getting any false readings from exhaust leaks or misfires.
Does anybody still have the instructions that were on the website a decade ago for self installation? I bought the hardware with the intent of installing it in my ecm myself and never got around to it. Also missed out on the opportunity to send RBob the hardware and my ecm a few years ago when I’d last spoken with him about it….
Use the wayback machine website to look at archives of the site from around 2011. Even during the last few years that portion of the site wasn’t even available. I think he removed it from the site around the time the EBL Flash II came out.
Use the wayback machine website to look at archives of the site from around 2011. Even during the last few years that portion of the site wasn’t even available. I think he removed it from the site around the time the EBL Flash II came out.
I bought it sometime in 2012 and it was still on the site then, but I’ll give that a try. Thank you
I bought it sometime in 2012 and it was still on the site then, but I’ll give that a try. Thank you
There are tons of archives through the years from the site. I just always remember 2011 cause that is when I purchased my car and started researching about EBL. It appears to have been removed sometime between 2017 and 2018. With the site saying it must be installed in-house from then on.
Hi,
I've been using EBL for years. working well. But there is an issue that is bugging me.
While driving the highway while the throttle is pressed a bit everything is OK. But when I take off my feet, the AFR goes above 17.5:1 and I hear a low noise of bogging. As soon as I floor it a bit, It is OK.
What parameters should I look at?
Sounds like DE-there's four parameters to look at. There is also DFCO that could be affecting it. On the WUD it has boxes for DE and DFCO that will light up to show what is being activated. If the DE or DFCO is not activaing when it does it then another possibility is to just enrich the VE table at that particular spot.
Sounds like DE-there's four parameters to look at. There is also DFCO that could be affecting it. On the WUD it has boxes for DE and DFCO that will light up to show what is being activated. If the DE or DFCO is not activaing when it does it then another possibility is to just enrich the VE table at that particular spot.
YG_100.BIN is a bin made by BobR a few years ago. a tuner friend has changed these parameters.
Without a datalog to tell you if it is DE or DFCO you are only guessing. But it sounds like DE because DFCO would send the AFR to max 19.99 (assuming that is the sensor/gauge max lean reading). Might as well just try lowering the enleanment factor back to 0.44 to see what affect it has.
DCFO would cut fuel 100% so it makes sense why you would see WB at 18.5.
It does appear you might be a little lean in your first two rows of VE table. (low kPa rows). Seemed to lean out when engine braking/coasting just prior to DFCO activating. That area of the VE table is very hard to get good learns. Especially without a manual transmission. So it commonly needs manually tuned in. This is why the "bowl" forms in low rpm/low kPa area.
DCFO would cut fuel 100% so it makes sense why you would see WB at 18.5.
It does appear you might be a little lean in your first two rows of VE table. (low kPa rows). Seemed to lean out when engine braking/coasting just prior to DFCO activating. That area of the VE table is very hard to get good learns. Especially without a manual transmission. So it commonly needs manually tuned in. This is why the "bowl" forms in low rpm/low kPa area.
Thank you for your input. I'll change the DE params as I mentioned above and take another drive.
ok that works as far as that goes so now i have another question. How exactly are the commanded AFR tables set up outside of the Open Loop AFR vs RPM & VAC tables? showing in the pic is the moment where the EBL tries to force a 12.8 afr even when NOT in PE. I've been trying to whittle it down but I'm not exactly sure what I need to adjust. Also, my "OLARV" table has a commanded afr in the 75-80 MAP for 14.40 below 2000 rpms. I"m a bit stumped
I'm revisiting this because I can't seem to find out why it's trying to command a 12.8 afr in the 80 map range. I did notice that it only happens when i hit 32% tps. I've turned PE essentially off and set my OLARV table in the 80 map just to see what happens at 15.80. It STILL forces a 12.7-.8 afr in that range.I even lowered the VE table in the 80 map leaner to force a 14.7 to no avail. what other tables would force a 12.8 at 30-32% tps?
When you say you've essentially turned off PE what do u mean?
Reviewing the datalog excel file might tell you what is being activated. If PE is being activated that explains what is forcing the 12.8. In open loop there really isn't anything else that causes a drop in AFR straight to 12.8 other than PE mode.
I'm revisiting this because I can't seem to find out why it's trying to command a 12.8 afr in the 80 map range. I did notice that it only happens when i hit 32% tps. I've turned PE essentially off and set my OLARV table in the 80 map just to see what happens at 15.80. It STILL forces a 12.7-.8 afr in that range.I even lowered the VE table in the 80 map leaner to force a 14.7 to no avail. what other tables would force a 12.8 at 30-32% tps?
From the pictures that I am looking at, I am seeing an engine in forced Open Loop with the BLM/INT locked at 128 and with zero O2 correction, and your wideband is essentially reading the actual AFR in the exhaust stream. I think what you are doing is confusing Hg with kPA. Remember, an 80-kPA at 2000-RPM is only 6.31" of Hg (vacuum), and your Open Loop AFR vs RPM vs VAC (Hg) table is correctly reading 12.8 AFR at 6.31" Hg. If you want to see 14.7 AFR at 80-kPA at a specific RPM, you need to change the 10 and 0 columns in that OLARV table from 12.8 to 14.7 up until your desired RPM limit. Changing the 80 column in the OLARV is not kPA, its Hg (vacuum). Bob did this for increased resolution on the Hg/Vacuum side. It goes roughly like this;
Good point. I was thinking that was an old screenshot and he was saying he had changed those values already. If he hasn't and the 10 & 0 columns are still commanding 12.8 then that is definitely what needs changed.
Those are old screenshots. I set PE to not come on till 60% tps and in the logs its not activating at all. I'll post the new tables when i get off work. I can actually watch the EBL during operation force the 12.8 even with the tables set at 15.50 afr in the 80 HG areas
From the pictures that I am looking at, I am seeing an engine in forced Open Loop with the BLM/INT locked at 128 and with zero O2 correction, and your wideband is essentially reading the actual AFR in the exhaust stream. I think what you are doing is confusing Hg with kPA. Remember, an 80-kPA at 2000-RPM is only 6.31" of Hg (vacuum), and your Open Loop AFR vs RPM vs VAC (Hg) table is correctly reading 12.8 AFR at 6.31" Hg. If you want to see 14.7 AFR at 80-kPA at a specific RPM, you need to change the 10 and 0 columns in that OLARV table from 12.8 to 14.7 up until your desired RPM limit. Changing the 80 column in the OLARV is not kPA, its Hg (vacuum). Bob did this for increased resolution on the Hg/Vacuum side. It goes roughly like this;
so change the 10 and 0 side of the tables to 14.7?
Correct.... if you are running an Open Loop tune, and you find yourself cruising at say 2000-RPM and 80-kPa at a fixed part throttle based on your gearing, you will want to set your OLARV to 14.7 AFR in columns 10 and 0. Just make sure that when you transition into wide open throttle immediately "off idle" when you floor it that you bring it back to 12.8 AFR at that exact RPM. So looking at your analysis pic, set those two columns in the OLAVR (column 10 and 0) to 14.7 up until 2000-RPM, and leave it at 12.8 AFR from 2400-RPM and higher. This will keep your AFR at your targeted 14.7 in Open Loop while cruising at whichever RPM you need it to. You'll just need to dial in the transition from cruising into part throttle using Acceleration Enrichment in between, and then finally re-enable your Power Enrichment for your wide open throttle.
When you say you've essentially turned off PE what do u mean?
Reviewing the datalog excel file might tell you what is being activated. If PE is being activated that explains what is forcing the 12.8. In open loop there really isn't anything else that causes a drop in AFR straight to 12.8 other than PE mode.
How do i pull that up? Sorry that's one part of the ebl I haven't used yet
In the data analysis window click the single header and create csv and then click the dump log button. I then open the file and make the top row with the labels always visible so that it stays visible as I scroll through the log.
What program do I use? I tried to pull that up and it was all gibberish
Nevermind I figured it out. How do I find out what HG/Vacuum the EBL is reading in the spread sheet? This will definitely change up how I tune this now thank you.
Last edited by robertfrank; Feb 25, 2025 at 11:01 PM.
What program do I use? I tried to pull that up and it was all gibberish
Nevermind I figured it out. How do I find out what HG/Vacuum the EBL is reading in the spread sheet? This will definitely change up how I tune this now thank you.
When I want to break down what I'm looking at I go to file and playback on the WUD. Then run it at slowest speed and pause a lot. Then I can easily see when PE/DE etc comes on and the results.
