Okay I have the idle blm's pretty nice, part throttle cruise I didn't really have to mess with, the BLM's seemed to be right at 128 so I left that alone.
At full throttle the INT and BLM seem to lock at 128 and stay there so I assume I should be watching the o2 sensor?
It seems to be around 970-980 on a full throttle run. I am guessing that is lean? I can't recall which way the o2 reads for lean/rich,,,,I was thinking they should be around 870-900 so I need to fatten up the full throttle fuel?
With that said, if I am thinking right,,,keeping that in mind, I am watching the MAF/grams in my datalog and notice the highest they get is around 190 grams at 5,000 rpms then they drop as rpm drops and start the climb again,,,,keeping that in mind, I am looking at the MAF tables and this scale falls under table 5 which go as high as 208 grams,,,,the MAF grams never enter table 6. With that in mind, can I simply raise the numbers in table 5 which will help my full throttle lean issue? Larry.

 

128/128 is almost impossible to do in the real world.

Do u have a bin with them locked for open loop tuning or the blm/int locked at 128?

Might want to double check everything against a known and verified STOCK bin.

Stock 02 readings are worth less for anything other than stoich.

+.450 is rich, under .450 is lean, but in reality if u track it with a wideband it could and most often is completely different from that. As stock sensors go away from stoich, the worse the dependabilty gets.

Dont trust it, beg/steal/buy a wideband.

later
Jeremy

 

What was INT(egrator) doing during your cruise? If it too was right at 128, then you can know that it was in Open Loop, and not using integrator or block learn. Closed loop requires the engine to be warm, and a few other things, like a working O2. Make SURE it goes into closed loop before even caring about BLM.

Most calibrations will only allow a minimum BLM of 128 during WOT, also, so if you're rich, and BLMs go down to 122 at high load, and then you go WOT, it'll use 128 no matter what.

Get your BLMs and MAF tables squared away, then just enter in the desired air fuel ratio in the PE tables, such that the displayed commanded air fuel ratio in the logs is about 12- 12.5, then leave it alone until you get a wideband, or go on a dyno with a wideband.

 

I don't have the BLM/INT locked,,,,the INT does move around rather quickly sometimes, hard to read exactly, but the BLM's are what I was paying most attention too and they are pretty good at staying right on 128 at idle and part throttle cruise,,,and yes it was in closed loop.
It is when I go full throttle that the INT/BLM seemed to lock together at 128 and didn't move, from there I was somewhat up in the air on how the fuel mixture was, only having the o2 sensor to watch. I know they are not that accurate but enough to get me somewhere in the ballpark and at least to give me some idea of what the car is doing, that is all I am after at this point. I just couldn't remember which was was lean and which way was rich when looking at the o2 sensor. So the higher the number the richer it is? I was thinking wrong then. My car is somwhere on the rich side at full throttle then as the o2 sensor was around 950-970. That is all I was trying to figure out, whether the car was rich or lean.

Redngold86Z, I am close to have the MAF tables where I want them, maybe a couple more tries and I should have it. Then you mentioned entering the desired A/F ratio in the PE tables? I have heard that before but under what table do I find that? Is it just as simple as plugging in say 12.5 for argument sake,,,,and the computer will try to keep the engine at that A/F ratio at full throttle? Could you explain where I can find that table?

I plan on doing the wide band, I am getting my own to also use on my other cars as well, it will easily pay for itself, but for now I just want to get the car decent. Thanks,,,Larry.

 

Anybody?

 

Check out the post I made a few days ago that has an XDF.zip in it. Check that out. You can set the PE A/F vs RPM, and it will be the commanded A/F if the PE vs Temp table is zeroes at warm engine.

Just shoot for the common 12.5:1 for now. Take a test run and see if that's what the displayed commanded A/F is in the datalog.

 

I hate to ask but could you explain that in a little more depth?

I will look for the PE A/F verses rpm,,,,does this just simply have an A/F ratio listed to change? This only works if the PE verses temp table is zero? These are things I am not familiar with, all these little tricks to make other tables work.
You also mentioned watch the datalog to see what the commanded A/F ratio is? Where do you see that? I have not found that yet.
Sorry, I am new and just need a little more in depth description on some of this stuff. Thanks again,,,Larry.

 

I found PE verses RPM table, here is what is there which I assume is stock for the 6e bin since I haven't touched them,,,,

3600 -7.82
3200 0.00
2800 6.25
2000 -0.00
1600 -0.00
1200 11.72
800 11.72
400 11.72
0 11.72 Above 3600 rpms the number stays at -7.82

This table makes absolutely no sense to me as far as A/F ratio is concerned. I would be afraid to change any numbers in it until I understood how it works. How does changing these numbers affect the A/F ratio?

I also found PE verses temp, and it looks like this

306 34.38
262 34.38
219 22.66
176 22.66
133 22.66
46 33.59
08 43.75
03 48.83
-40 54.69
Again I assume these are stock as I have not touched them. These also make no sense to me at all. Larry.

 

if you use the XDF attached to one of my posts here:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...6e-tip-ae.html
then you can put 0's in the PE vs Temp at warm engine, and then type the AFR you want in all of the PE vs RPM table.

With the numbers you have there, you should be able to just add the two together, such as at 2800 RPM and 176F, you'll have 6.25% + 22.66% = 28.91%. Then add 100 to that, so 100+28.91=128.91.
Then, take 14.7 divided by that, so it's (14.7*100)/128.91 = 11.4 to1 A/F
(if your xdf has the correct equations in it - I know the original ecu file that I got from tunerpro had a big error there, which made the PE vs Temp look to be double what it really was, but the numbers in your table look stock-ish)

When you datalog, you'll see a "commanded AFR" or something like that, and it should match this calculation. If it doesn't, then your xdf has an error. Download and use the one that I put in that other post, and you'll also see many many other things that are useful, but aren't in the older xdf's.

 

Thanks, I would have never figured that out, what a math equation that is. I can't believe the math you have to go through to come up with an A/F ratio out of those numbers.
I like the idea of using your XDF so I can simply plug in the A/F ratio I want in the PE vs RPM table. Do I understand that right? With your XDF I simply plug in,,,,say,,,,,12.5 A/F ratio and thats what it will be with no more math equations?
Sounds great if I understand that correctly, now I just have to figure out how to load your XDF into my 6e code I guess? I don't really understand how those 2 work together, sometimes I have XDF mismatch when I am loading up tunerpro, as if I am not saving something right "shrug" Larry.

 

Open TunerPro RT, at the top you'll see XDF, click on that, click on "select XDF," then find the location that you saved the xdf that I posted, and click on it (make sure you "unzip" that file first though - in order to post it in a post, I had to zip it. Winzip (or WinRAR) is a program that unzips zipped files - if you really have problems, email me, and I'll reply with an unzipped file attached in the email).

Then, yeah, it's really that easy. See the attached file for something close to what I use (feel free to use a few percent richer for safety). If your MAF tables are all close, then this will just work out to be close enough to accurate, unless you have a monster engine that's maxxing out the MAF (255 g/s). On my car (when it was stock), it was spot on when observed with a wideband.

 

I am going to save it to a thumb drive so I can take it over to the laptop, I may have my wife give me a hand to make sure I do this right.
I was looking at the attatched graph, thanks for that, it may be a big help, although I was looking at the temp graph where you mentioned making that all zeroes, but I see numbers in there, so I think I am not totally understanding what is going on. Larry.

 

I saved it and have it in the XDF on the laptop, I went into select XDF and found it no problems there. But when I try to open it, it says file doesn't exist and asks me if I want to create the file. Do I want to do that?
I guess I just don't understand the purpose of this XDF,,,, why can't I just change all the numbers to 0 in the PE verses temp table and then just plug in the A/F ratio I want in PE A/F verses RPM without using this XDF? Somehow I have to link this XDF to the bin I am working in? Larry.

 

I just happened to look over at the tables and everything is different,,,,in the Flags section there are a bunch of listings that say "Air flow mode word",,,,,stuff I have never seen before. What is this stuff, I guess the XDF is a certain tune or something? I guess I am confused now. Larry

 

XDF is only a way to "see" what's in the calibration or "tune."

It's just a roadmap to it, basically.

The map I've given you has some more details than the typical xdf file. For now, ignore what you don't understand. I don't even fully understand some of it, because I just took it from the source code which has some very short comments, not full explainations. I'm not anywhere near my car (in China, still....), nor have enough motivation at the moment to dig through the source code to make good explainations for each item.

The PE vs Temp table has some extra richness when cold, but when warm, you'll see the 0, which is the important one, because I hope you allow your engine to warm up before beating on it.

Good luck.
BTW, post on here what your stock tables read for those two tables using that xdf. I'm just curious what yours say, so that I can be sure you're doing it right.

 

Sorry I didn't reply back sooner, I got busy last night and I am just getting a chance today to sit down.
What are you doing in China if you don't mind me asking? Pretty far from home.
Nope I don't run the car hard when it's cold, I don't even like moving it until I see the temp gauge doing something, I have always been a finatic about taking care of my cars. I like to get some heat in the oil before I do anything.
I can post what my tables are no problem, I just want to be sure I give you what you are asking for. Do you want my tables that I have worked on so far in my XDF file? Larry.

 

Nah, just the tables that were stock for the two tables that I have shown in the other picture. Just want to make sure they look reasonable.

I'm in China working for a fuel injection company. It's still kind of in startup stage, but we did get a contract with Geely (and pass EURO 3, and working on EOBD and then will do EURO 4). I'm the only calibration guy here, and I also design some of the control algorythms, and test and debug new software, and decide on system components, and do all of the emissions testing, and troubleshooting, etc... It's kind of a 3 man show (software guy, PCB guy, and me), with some supporting chinese engineers and management. I've been here since November 2004, and before that worked for a fuel injection company in California, that was a joint venture with this company.

 

The 2 tables you have listed I am having trouble reading, the numbers break up and they are hard to make out, I can only make a good guess as to what they are.
Those tables appear to be PE verses temp and PE verses RPM. Correct?

I listed what my bin/XDF (or what ever it's called,,,lol) has up above in an earlier post when I didn't understand what they meant. Is that what you are referring to?
Could you e-mail me the picture of those 2 tables above? I am thinking maybe they will come through clearer in an e-mail. It's hotrodjones@fuse.net,,,,,,thanks.

Sounds like you have a great job. Any idea or plan when you might be coming back to the states? You have been over their for quite some time now. Larry.

 

Some browsers will allow you to change the size of the pic if you move the cursor over it. You can also save the pic and open it in some different viewing software.
Your correct on the table names.

Also, if your injectors are on the small side for your HP, you may run out of adjustment room in your maf tables when you zero out the temp table.
I've seen a similar problem in an SD setup where the PE tables were set to the desired afr value and they ran out of room in the ve table.

You might want to put your combo in your profile or sig so people can see what your working with.

 

Great info to know,,,I appreciate that very much. I am still learning so anything I can read, print, experiment is a huge help.

I guess I never did the sig or profile thing, I am up to 9 different cars, I tinker with them all off and on, it was too much trouble to list them all but here is a quick overview of the Iroc I am playing with.

88 Iroc, L98 350 tpi, auto with 2.77 gears. Started as a bone stock 50,000 mile car, currently has 64,000 miles. Still stock for the most part with a few bolt ons,,,,Hooker headers and Y-pipe, cat removed, Edebrock cat back exhaust, 1.6 comp cam full roller rockers, air foil, K&N filters, holley adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Thats it. When it was a stocker I ran a best of 14.60 at 94 mph. After the mods listed above it ran 13.92 at 99 mph, all runs have been on stock rubber with 60 foot times in the 2.15 range.
Now I am burning my own chips and trying to iron out a good tune for this relatively stock car. I found right off the bat this thing was very lean all over the place with BLM's in the 145 and up range. So the first thing I did was lower the injector constants which helped a great deal, now I am trying to fine tune the MAF tables to get the lean spots out of it here and there, which I think I have done for the most part. Now I am looking into the A/F ratio adjustments at full throttle that have been discussed above, the car is already coming around and feeling stronger. After that I will play with the timing some more, which will be a discussion for another subject, as I don't quite understand the 6e MAF timing table completely. I just hope my tuning buddies stay with me and don't get tired of all these stupid questions.
I am hoping that with a tune up ironed out on this thing I may pick up another tenth or two. When I think I have it close I will hit the track again and maybe play with the PE A/F ratio some more and see what it does for mph at the track. Larry.