Guys, just an idea I had that I thought might actually exist OR be an idea that could help us cut our FUEL MAP programming time by a ton. Bear with me...

I have never used a Diacom (not sure if Diacom can/does do this...) or similar device but use(d) SnapOn and Auto X-ray scan tools. The SnapOn has a movie feature that I like because it can help with programming in that you can just drive and look at the movie later to make VE table changes based upon BLM values at RPM vs MAP levels... Movies are rather short, though, and I have a better/betterment idea:

Create software that will simply “monitor” the BLM values vs RPM and MAP values (for TBI, not sure what the TPI ECU guys use, but you get the idea...). Ideally, the program would simply fill-in a “table” with the actual “while-driving” BLM values... The table would have the same scales as the MAIN FUEL TABLE (ie, RPM vs MAP scalars for the 7747 TBI ECU, as on TunerCat, for example, different scalars for TPI???). After driving for a period of time over a range of loads/rpms, the table would fill-in with the actual BLM values which could then be used to calculate the new VE values to be used on the next iteration of your BIN. i.e., if the 2000rpm/50 MAP BLM value is 152, you could take the 2000/50 VE value and multiply it by (152/128) or 1.1875 or 18.75% and use that value in the next VE table. I suppose the program could always just cut-to-the-chase by creating your "NEW” VE table if you actually programmed the initial VE table in for the program to manipulate.

This program would take all “guesswork” out of the VE tuning procedure AND SAVE TONS OF TIME for driving our vehicles or other extracurricular activities, like playing with the kids!!! I would think that with two or three iterations of PROMs using this method, you would be done and have an optimal VE table. It would also make the VE changes necessary after spark changes an easier task and/or easy to “see” in tabular form.

Creating this software is above my technological advances/skills and was wondering if it exists (PLEASE exist!) or if we could make it for us all to use??? I may be able to convince/pay a good friend/client of mine to create it, if it does not exist.

Whatcha' all think?



[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited March 13, 2001).]

 

I basically already do that by capturing the data with Diacom and then "stratifying" the sample and sorting it.

I then input the various INT (it is a finer factor to use when you lock BLM to 128) and I have an Excel Spreadsheet that takes my current VE values, applies a factor based on my observed INT values and computes a new VE table.

When you lock the BLM to 128, I found that for every INT difference from 128 to multiply it by .2. I have a more "sophisticated formula", but the .2 for every (128-INT) is the correction factor.

I beleive that I talked about this in the P730 - Intro that was done a couple of weeks ago.

 

I remember your post but wasn't sure it did what I need or expalained OR did it as easily.

How do you get the data from Diacom to Excel? How much data is your info based upon? ie: Unlimited length or timeframe or some other means, like "movie" length??? Could you post some of the data (or Excel file?) here so that I can understand what you are talking about? Just trying to see if it is easily formattable. I will buy Diacom if it looks good...

I'd still like to try to get some software program written, too. I'd rather have my data in an immediately usable form, that's all.

Don't you have to be VERY close VE-wise to make lock the BLM at 128 and only use the INT to tune? If I'm at a 128 BLM, I really don't care what the INT is doing, not enough percentage change to waste my time, I thought... Am I wrong??? When I change cam/head/etc, my BLM's re so far off of 128 that locking it 128 would not be wise as it would take MANY INT iterations and PROM burns to close in upon the proper 128 BLM values. Get what I mean?



[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited March 13, 2001).]

 

Yes, you can transfer captured data from Diacom to Excel. You translate the GDF file from Diacom into a DBF file and then you read the DBF file with Excel and just save it in XLS format.

You have no limitation of the amount of data (other than Excel only allow 65,535 rows of information). With the SD ecm, you get 400 frames/minute in its "finest" capture frequency. This represents over 160 minutes of captured data. That is why I refer to "stratifying" the sample. I will sort the data and put each "kpa" range in a separate spreadsheet. This is how I handle 8 hours worth of captured data. And then I just take the "average" INT value for an rpm range within a kpa range.

BLM is not fine enough ... 5 INT = 1 BLM. This represents a couple of values in the VE table. Your eprom would have to be quite off for the locking of the BLM to 128 to become a problem. Besides, you can adjust the INT min/max from 80/180 anyways...so its not really a problem.

Last, no I cannot post one. These spreadsheets get over 20 Mb large and I cannot provide a link with my ISP to offer an FTP of a file of that size.

But you get the general idea. With the TBI ecm your capture rate is only 1/6th of the SD ecm if I recall correctly. So you would be able to capture 960 minutes of data in one spreadsheet.

 

I just put in the HOT cam (PROM tuned from a 194 intake duration cam) and I am WAAAAAAAAAAY off on the BLM... Either way, if you are off "1" BLM rich or lean, that is less than 1% (0.8%?), which will do, right?

Please please please post a data spreadsheet somewhere for me. I'd also like to better understand the conversion procedure to Excel. Maybe we should talk by phone/email??? I'd like to check it out and will use it to decide on my Diacom purchase. I have a couple extra laptops collecting kid drool right now, anyways.

I'm with ya, I think. That data is just a running tab of the data and you use the average (I would assume that it would be better to use the "later" values, if you could, as they would be better "adjusted" by the INT routine) to set your new BIN's VE. Sounds good to me.

Do you like the Diacom?

 

Fastbroker,

You shouldn't have a problem putting this spreadsheet together yourself. Simply use Diacom's translate function to create the DBF. Open the DBF up in excel. No you can sort the data and move particular blocks to various sheets where you can perform the calculations. No big deal. Its a great learning experience.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

BTW - This leads me to another feature of my own software program based off an idea of Dave Zug. Have your program display the VE table in a grid. Double click the cell that you want to change. Enter the BLM recorded in Diacom for that cell and then the program automagically changes the value for you.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

1) As a "first pass" you could use the BLMs to "get you in the ball park".

2) I don't have a web page, so I cannot post the spreadsheet. If your e-mail can handle a large file, I will try sending a smaller file via e-mail.

3) Yes, I like Diacom very much. By capturing the information, I can concentrate on driving and don't have to watch it all the time. Also, I have found a LOT of interesting things with it. Example, when I noticed that I was sometimes getting the maximum spark advance as per my "reconciliation" of what my spark advance should be, and then noticed sometimes I wasn't getting it; this led me to investigate why this was happening. I reviewed my Diacom data and noticed what seemed to trigger it (getting knock incidences above 70 kpa of a certain magnitude) and then I started looking through the hac for these conditions. Eventually, I found the Octane Routine with those very parameters. I then changed the parameters and I was able to confirm them with Diacom.

Also, sometimes the hac (or TunerCat) will have a certain "conversion" factor for a particular parameter that does not seem to match what occurs with Diacom. Through Diacom, I was able to calculate what the proper conversion factor should be.

 

I'm with you, Trax, but you have to have Diacom for this and I no gots. I may buy it though based upon this info.

Guess I may as well ask:

1) How much ($450 ish, right?)
2) How much for the cable ($100 ish?)

Think I saw group purchase going on. Guess I gotta join in. I just figured some software geek could tap into the data stream with a simple program and get the data that way, nice and simple... And for the price of a cable and some hooch. "Hoochie Momma!!!", as George's Father (Seinfeld) would say...

Thx in advance.

 

I was just checking through my archives and I did not keep an example. These files get very large and after I have made a modification to my VE Tables, they are no use to me aftwards. As Traxion said, it is very simple: just sort on RPM/MAP/INT. and then take the average of the INT value for a particular RPM/MAP reading.

I sometimes "group" rpm ranges together. EG. 1575-1625 to derive the 1,600 rpm range and then just sort on MAP/INT as all the data will only be for the 1,600 rpm range.

You cannot buy the cables by themselves from Rinda. They include it with the software though. I did have a problem with one of my cables once, and Rinda was nice enough to give me a new one after I sent them the defective one.

As I said, I've never regretted purchasing Diacom. If Rinda was to say offer me my money back, I would refuse. I would rather buy that and make my own eprom, than buy an eprom. Also, the software has more than paid for itself in helping diagnose a problem with my car and a few family members' GM cars.

 

IT's making me wonder why I paid THOUSANDS of dollars for the SnapOn tool, that's all.

I know I can use the SnapOn in terminal mode with a PC but not sure if you can capture the data this way. The manual makes it sound like the PC just acts like the scan-tool itself, like a remote terminal, if you will. Anyone know if you can "suck" up the running serial data in "terminal mode" with the SnapOn? The PC uses VT100 terminal software to communicate with the SnapOn, BTW??? I have the cable but need the VT100 software, which is cheap. Just don;t think it will goive me what i want.

 

How about the FREESCAN program (Craig Moates) I keep hearing about here. Can I get the "running" data into Excel using that program??? Does it work ok, and does it work with 7747 TBI $42 ECU?

I'm pretty sure that software does not support my ECU. bummer...???...


EDIT: I just posted this (immediately above) question on the "Where is Craig Moates Software" post, BTW.

Thx

[This message has been edited by FastBroker (edited March 14, 2001).]