192LV8+ Timing issues...
07-24-2006, 08:23 PM
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
192LV8+ Timing issues...
When my timing table goes into the 192 or 208 LV8 range at ANY RPM, something bad is happening! There is a rattling sound almost like I laid a thin piece of sheet metal on the intake and revved the engine. Power loss arrives with this clatter each and every time. Is this valve float? I tried playing with the timing and it isn't resolving anything.
Things that will trigger this noise:
1) Going up a steep hill and and applying more than around 30% throttle.
2) With the car in neutral, giving it a "pump rev."
3) WOT especially above 4200rpms.
I'm getting stumped... The wideband Oxygen sensor doesn't show any unusual richness and I'm definitely not in ALDL spark adder mode. I ripped the valve covers off to recheck valve lash also. Please
.
Here is a copy of my current spark table:
X axis = LV8
Y axis = RPM
I just ran out and did a quick 10second datalog.
Here is a pump shot at idle:
Things that will trigger this noise:
1) Going up a steep hill and and applying more than around 30% throttle.
2) With the car in neutral, giving it a "pump rev."
3) WOT especially above 4200rpms.
I'm getting stumped... The wideband Oxygen sensor doesn't show any unusual richness and I'm definitely not in ALDL spark adder mode. I ripped the valve covers off to recheck valve lash also. Please
.Here is a copy of my current spark table:
X axis = LV8
Y axis = RPM
Code:
29.88 35.16 35.86 33.40 34.10 30.94 30.23 27.77 29.88 29.88 29.88 29.88 29.88 34.10 36.91 36.21 30.94 29.88 30.23 28.13 28.13 28.13 27.07 24.26 31.99 35.16 38.67 35.16 30.94 30.23 29.88 27.07 22.50 18.63 18.63 18.63 32.34 34.45 39.38 39.73 30.23 29.53 29.88 27.07 17.93 16.17 16.17 16.17 28.83 33.05 39.73 39.02 31.29 33.05 29.88 23.55 17.23 14.41 16.17 18.28 31.99 38.67 41.84 41.48 41.48 38.67 38.67 32.34 26.72 24.26 22.50 20.74 31.64 37.27 41.13 40.43 40.08 38.67 37.97 35.16 30.59 26.02 24.26 22.50 34.10 38.67 41.48 41.48 41.48 40.43 39.02 37.62 31.64 26.02 25.31 23.91 34.10 38.67 40.78 41.13 40.78 40.08 39.02 36.91 31.64 26.02 25.31 23.55 31.99 37.62 40.08 40.43 40.08 39.02 37.27 36.91 32.34 24.26 22.50 21.45 28.83 37.27 39.73 40.08 39.38 38.67 37.62 35.16 31.99 24.96 21.80 20.04 28.83 36.56 38.67 39.73 38.67 37.97 36.91 35.16 31.99 24.96 18.98 17.23 26.37 31.29 34.81 37.27 37.27 36.21 34.81 31.99 26.02 21.09 17.23 14.06 23.91 27.42 31.29 33.75 34.10 33.05 32.70 28.13 18.98 16.52 10.20 10.20 23.91 24.61 27.07 28.83 29.18 28.13 27.07 21.80 16.17 9.84 9.84 9.84 23.20 23.20 23.20 23.20 23.20 23.20 23.20 18.28 13.01 9.84 9.84 9.84 21.09 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 17.23 11.95 9.49 9.49 9.49
Here is a pump shot at idle:
Code:
TPS CTS IAT B+ FP MPH RPM G/sec LV8 AFR INT PW TDC R. Pulse KC KR 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 925 9.38 48 13.96 120 1.13 26.72 20.74 6 0 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 925 9.32 49 13.6 120 1.16 26.37 20.39 6 0 2.24 158.45 105.38 12.6 11.8 0 925 36 185 13.66 120 2.01 12.3 6.33 6 0 2.08 158.45 106.08 12.7 11.5 0 1325 46.99 159 13.19 119 4.29 32.34 25.66 6 1.7 0.59 158.45 106.08 12.6 11.6 0 1950 11.14 42 10.42 119 0.9 35.86 27.42 6 1.5 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 2250 11.74 25 10.42 119 0.47 34.1 26.02 6 1.3 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.7 11.8 0 2125 11.47 26 10.18 119 0.49 34.1 26.02 6 1.2 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.7 11.8 0 2025 11.34 27 11.42 119 0.52 34.1 27.77 6 1.2 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1925 10.87 28 11.77 119 0.53 33.05 25.31 6 1.1 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1850 10.82 29 12.3 119 0.6 31.99 24.26 6 1.1 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1725 10.57 30 12.01 119 0.6 30.23 22.5 6 1 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1625 10.16 30 12.54 119 0.63 29.18 21.45 6 1 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1575 9.61 30 12.89 119 0.6 28.83 21.45 6 0.9 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1475 9.62 32 12.78 119 0.69 28.83 21.45 6 0.9 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1375 9.59 34 12.89 119 0.72 29.53 22.15 6 0.8 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.7 11.8 0 1300 9.65 35 12.84 119 0.76 29.53 22.15 6 0.7 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1250 9.53 37 12.84 119 0.79 28.13 21.09 6 0.7 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1200 9.52 39 13.25 119 0.82 28.13 20.74 6 0.6 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1125 9.49 41 13.07 119 0.87 27.77 20.74 6 0.6 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1050 9.53 44 12.89 119 0.95 27.42 20.74 6 0.5 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1050 9.32 43 13.19 119 0.93 27.42 20.74 6 0.5 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 1050 9.45 44 12.78 119 0.98 27.07 20.39 6 0.4 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.7 11.8 0 1000 9.43 44 13.37 119 1.02 27.07 20.39 6 0.4 0.59 158.45 105.38 12.8 11.8 0 975 9.47 47 13.48 119 1.08 26.72 20.39 6 0.3
Last edited by Dirtbik3r; 07-24-2006 at 08:49 PM.
07-25-2006, 03:03 AM
#2
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Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
Not valve float. Valve float happens at high RPM and acts like a rev limiter with some spitting and backfiring if it's really bad, but no clatter.
What you have sounds like knock to me. The KR shows knock retard. Do you have high compression? How much PE spark adder are you using? What heads/cam are you using? Probably just need less spark advance at high loads.
What you have sounds like knock to me. The KR shows knock retard. Do you have high compression? How much PE spark adder are you using? What heads/cam are you using? Probably just need less spark advance at high loads.
07-25-2006, 06:54 AM
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
Compression is 9.6:1
PE spark adder is zero'd out
Vortec heads - 1.6 roller rockers
LT4 Hot cam
Vortec Holley Stealth Ram
PE spark adder is zero'd out
Vortec heads - 1.6 roller rockers
LT4 Hot cam
Vortec Holley Stealth Ram
07-25-2006, 06:50 PM
#4
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Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
Is your base timing set correctly to match the bin file?
Also, vortec heads don't need too much timing. Do a search on the DIY board, for vortec heads, and timing, and see what comes up.
Also, vortec heads don't need too much timing. Do a search on the DIY board, for vortec heads, and timing, and see what comes up.
07-25-2006, 08:25 PM
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
Originally Posted by RednGold86Z
Is your base timing set correctly to match the bin file?
Also, vortec heads don't need too much timing. Do a search on the DIY board, for vortec heads, and timing, and see what comes up.
Also, vortec heads don't need too much timing. Do a search on the DIY board, for vortec heads, and timing, and see what comes up.
Wow... I did about 10 different runs today and changed the timing table when I got KR. It runs and idles better than it ever has. It's unbelieveable. I still have a little bit of spark knock around 1-1400RPM's, but I'll mess with it after work tomorrow. I'll give an update too.
Code:
23.91 33.05 35.86 29.53 30.23 30.94 30.23 27.77 27.07 20.74 20.04 9.14 23.91 31.99 36.91 32.34 30.94 29.88 30.23 28.13 28.13 20.04 18.98 9.14 24.26 31.29 38.67 31.29 30.94 27.77 27.77 27.07 22.50 18.63 12.66 3.52 24.61 34.45 39.38 35.86 30.23 23.55 24.26 22.50 17.93 16.17 16.17 3.52 25.66 33.05 39.73 39.02 31.29 31.99 28.83 21.45 17.23 14.41 16.17 16.17 25.66 36.56 39.38 37.97 36.56 36.56 36.56 28.83 26.72 22.15 21.45 17.58 25.31 36.21 36.21 35.86 36.21 37.62 37.62 34.10 30.59 24.96 22.15 20.39 24.96 33.75 35.51 35.51 37.62 36.56 36.91 35.51 31.64 23.91 23.20 22.85 24.96 35.51 39.38 38.67 37.27 36.91 35.86 33.75 31.64 20.74 20.04 20.04 24.61 31.29 39.02 38.32 36.91 36.91 30.94 30.59 27.07 16.88 16.17 20.39 22.50 30.94 36.56 35.86 36.21 36.91 31.99 29.88 26.37 16.88 16.52 18.98 21.09 27.42 33.75 35.86 36.21 36.91 30.94 20.04 21.45 12.66 10.90 16.17 20.04 27.42 31.64 35.16 36.21 35.16 30.59 19.69 18.98 11.95 10.90 10.90 19.69 23.20 27.07 30.59 29.18 31.99 29.53 18.98 13.01 10.55 9.14 10.20 19.69 21.45 27.07 28.83 28.83 28.13 27.07 18.63 12.30 9.84 9.84 9.84 18.98 20.04 23.20 23.20 23.20 23.20 23.20 18.28 11.95 9.84 9.84 9.84 17.93 18.98 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 17.23 11.95 9.49 9.49 9.49
To the distributer timing question:
I set the timing with a vacuum guage because the TDC line on the Harmonic Balancer is off... And yes, I pulled the set timing connector.
07-25-2006, 09:41 PM
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Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
Setting it with a vacuum gauge is NOT the right way at all. You'll end up with a base timing of 25-30. Then when the computer adds its own timing, it'll give you 50-60 something degrees of timing. WAYYY bad. Find TDC with a piston stop, and mark the balancer and reset base timing to 6 degrees before you do anymore damage.
07-26-2006, 08:42 PM
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
Originally Posted by RednGold86Z
Setting it with a vacuum gauge is NOT the right way at all. You'll end up with a base timing of 25-30. Then when the computer adds its own timing, it'll give you 50-60 something degrees of timing. WAYYY bad. Find TDC with a piston stop, and mark the balancer and reset base timing to 6 degrees before you do anymore damage.
I recorded a short datalog up and down the driveway. There were zero knock counts and all of the noise is gone. Thanks for the help.My only complaint about the car is the check engine light. Once in a while, when a load is applied, it will flash twice rapidly and shut off... I believe fuel may be getting cut off by the ecm when this happens because the car will bog. No knock counts when this happens either. Got any idea what this is? -This did not happen in open loop. Only CL...
BTW, you were right about the 25*+ timing by setting it with a vacuum guage. I can't understand how an automotive teacher at college would recommend it...
This datalog is using an lt1 timing table which I should tweek and i'm in open loop:
Code:
Engine MAF (LV8) WBO2 Timing Knock 1350 15.55 54 13.96 27.77 0 1425 16.33 55 14.13 28.13 0 1425 16.96 57 14.01 28.13 0 1400 17.22 57 14.07 28.13 0 1500 16.71 53 14.13 28.48 0 1525 16.31 53 14.13 28.48 0 1525 19.86 58 14.07 28.83 0 1625 21.03 62 14.19 28.83 0 1650 22.28 64 14.25 29.18 0 1675 22.26 64 14.13 29.18 0 1700 22.37 61 14.07 29.53 0 1750 21.8 60 13.9 29.88 0 1800 22.13 58 13.6 29.88 0 1775 22.27 58 13.96 30.23 0 1850 22.04 58 13.66 30.23 0 1875 22.76 58 13.31 30.23 0 1900 22.48 58 13.19 30.59 0 1950 22.81 57 12.84 30.59 0 1950 22.73 57 13.19 30.59 0 1975 22.48 55 13.37 30.59 0 2000 22.95 54 13.31 30.94 0 2025 22.85 53 12.78 31.29 0 2050 22.66 53 12.6 31.29 0 2075 22.75 52 13.13 31.64 0 2125 22.52 53 12.89 31.64 0 2150 22.5 52 13.31 31.64 0 2150 22.48 51 13.07 31.64 0 2175 22.88 50 12.66 31.99 0 2175 22.77 50 13.01 31.99 0 2200 22.83 50 12.48 31.64 0 2200 22.42 49 12.36 31.64 0 2200 22.58 50 12.3 31.99 0 2200 22.34 48 12.54 31.99 0 2200 23.11 51 11.95 31.64 0 2175 22.94 50 12.6 31.99 0 2200 22.72 50 12.6 31.99 0 2175 22.8 50 12.36 31.99 0 2200 22.82 49 12.78 31.99 0 2225 22.49 49 12.3 31.99 0 2250 22.8 48 12.66 31.99 0 2225 22.99 50 12.19 31.99 0 2225 22.53 49 12.01 31.99 0 2225 22.73 49 11.77 31.99 0 2250 22.69 49 12.07 32.34 0 2250 22.94 50 11.89 31.99 0 2250 23.15 50 12.19 32.34 0 2250 22.53 49 12.07 32.34 0 2250 22.27 48 11.89 32.34 0 2250 17.05 42 11.89 32.34 0 2225 13.73 31 12.25 31.99 0 2150 12.14 27 12.6 31.64 0 2175 11.71 26 12.6 31.99 0 2150 11.52 26 12.66 31.64 0 2100 11.41 26 13.01 31.29 0 2050 11.29 27 12.95 31.29 0 2075 11.03 26 13.48 31.29 0 2025 11 26 12.89 30.94 0 1975 10.84 26 12.78 30.94 0 1925 10.87 27 12.95 30.59 0 1925 11.09 28 13.13 30.59 0 1900 10.82 27 13.19 30.23 0 1825 10.56 28 12.84 30.23 0 1825 10.22 29 12.72 29.88 0 1800 10.71 29 12.78 29.88 0 1725 10.77 30 13.37 29.53 0 1725 10.67 30 13.72 29.53 0 1700 10.57 30 13.78 29.18 0 1625 10.88 32 13.19 28.83 0 1600 10.67 32 13.78 28.83 0 1600 10.72 33 13.54 28.83 0 1525 10.5 33 13.42 28.83 0 1525 10.8 34 13.9 28.48 0 1525 10.84 34 14.07 28.48 0 1525 10.5 33 13.13 28.48 0 1475 10.91 36 13.66 28.13 0 1425 10.73 36 13.54 28.13 0 1425 10.08 37 13.19 28.13 0 1425 10.67 37 13.31 28.13 0 1350 10.72 39 13.42 27.77 0 1325 10.71 38 13.42 27.77 0 1325 10.87 38 13.19 27.77 0 1350 11.35 40 13.72 27.77 0 1325 11.25 41 13.01 27.77 0 1300 8.32 42 13.07 27.42 0 1300 11.42 42 12.66 27.77 0 1300 11.88 43 12.6 27.77 0 1300 12.87 46 12.6 27.77 0 1325 18.04 64 13.07 27.77 0 1375 20.65 71 13.19 28.13 0 1375 21.53 74 13.07 28.13 0 1375 21.67 76 13.07 28.13 0 1475 21.74 70 13.37 28.48 0 1525 21.87 67 12.84 28.48 0 1500 21.58 68 12.95 28.48 0 1575 21.28 65 14.13 28.83 0 1650 22.25 63 13.6 29.18 0 1625 21.99 64 13.72 29.18 0 1700 21.05 62 13.96 29.53 0 1750 21.97 60 13.66 29.53 0 1750 21.6 59 13.84 29.53 0 1750 21.73 60 13.31 29.88 0 1800 21.52 59 13.37 29.88 0 1825 19.42 53 13.19 29.88 0 1775 15.86 44 12.95 29.88 0 1800 14.2 40 12.89 29.88 0 1775 13.57 37 13.66 29.88 0 1800 13.52 36 13.31 29.88 0 1825 12.73 34 14.13 29.88 0 1775 12.76 34 13.37 29.53 0 1725 12.83 36 13.6 29.53 0 1725 12.62 35 13.37 29.53 0 1700 12.62 36 13.07 29.18 0 1675 12.71 36 12.95 29.18 0 1650 12.55 37 12.78 29.18 0 1625 12.62 37 13.31 28.83 0 1600 12.65 39 13.48 28.83 0 1600 12.8 38 12.78 28.83 0 1575 12.45 38 14.13 28.83 0 1550 12.55 39 14.49 28.83 0 1550 12.6 40 14.13 28.48 0 1500 12.58 40 13.9 28.48 0 1500 12.89 41 13.72 28.48 0 1500 12.57 41 13.96 28.48 0 1450 12.67 41 13.72 28.48 0 1450 12.73 42 13.78 28.13 0 1425 12.84 44 14.19 28.13 0 1400 12.86 45 13.66 28.13 0 1400 12.68 44 13.42 28.13 0 1400 12.9 45 13.96 27.77 0 1375 13.68 48 13.42 27.77 0 1325 14.1 50 13.72 27.77 0 1350 15.29 53 13.78 27.77 0 1375 17.24 61 13.48 27.77 0 1325 16.59 63 13.54 27.77 0 1350 17.51 61 13.54 27.77 0 1350 17.8 62 13.54 28.13 0 1375 17.56 62 13.54 27.77 0 1375 22.42 76 13.6 27.77 0 1400 23.03 78 13.78 28.13 0 1475 22.42 75 14.01 28.48 0 1450 22.97 77 13.9 28.13 0 1475 23.03 72 13.6 28.48 0 1550 23.42 72 13.84 28.83 0 1550 22.99 71 13.9 28.83 0 1575 23.63 70 14.37 28.83 0 1625 23.03 68 14.31 28.83 0 1650 23.42 67 13.96 29.18 0 1700 23.32 66 13.96 29.53 0 1725 23.16 64 14.01 29.53 0 1750 23.67 66 14.01 29.88 0 1800 23.15 61 14.37 29.88 0 1775 23.49 62 13.66 29.88 0 1825 23.3 62 13.96 30.23 0 1850 23.13 61 13.42 30.23 0 1825 23.76 61 13.78 30.23 0 1875 22.06 59 13.54 30.59 0 1900 23.49 60 13.6 30.23 0 1900 23.76 59 13.25 30.59 0 1925 23.64 59 13.01 30.59 0 1925 18.73 50 12.84 30.59 0 1925 12.33 32 12.84 30.23 0 1850 11.86 31 12.19 30.23 0 1825 11.68 31 12.72 30.23 0 1850 11.32 29 12.54 30.23 0 1850 11.52 30 13.19 29.88 0 1775 11.28 31 14.84 29.53 0 1725 11.16 31 12.89 29.53 0 1700 11.01 30 13.6 29.53 0 1725 11 31 13.25 29.18 0 1650 10.97 31 13.19 29.18 0 1650 10.67 32 12.95 28.83 0 1625 10.83 32 13.13 29.18 0 1625 10.8 32 12.72 28.83 0 1550 11.06 34 12.78 28.83 0 1525 11.43 35 12.66 28.48 0 1500 11.41 37 13.01 28.48 0 1500 11.94 38 13.37 28.48 0 1475 12.58 41 13.31 28.48 0 1475 13.72 43 12.95 28.48 0 1500 14.83 47 13.37 28.48 0 1500 15.16 49 13.01 28.48 0 1475 17.39 56 13.37 28.48 0 1500 20.47 61 13.19 28.48 0 1550 23.01 73 13.6 28.83 0 1600 23.29 70 14.25 28.83 0 1600 23.77 72 14.13 28.83 0 1675 18.14 68 13.72 29.53 0 1725 24.43 69 13.78 29.18 0 1725 23.83 67 14.07 29.53 0 1800 24.11 66 14.66 29.88 0 1800 24.36 65 15.08 29.88 0 1825 24.17 62 14.84 30.23 0 1875 24.62 64 14.37 30.23 0 1900 24.37 61 14.13 30.23 0 1925 24.76 62 13.78 30.59 0 1925 24.49 60 14.19 30.59 0 1975 24.56 61 13.72 30.59 0 2025 24.57 59 13.66 30.94 0 2025 24.56 59 13.42 30.94 0 2050 24.82 58 13.96 31.29 0 2050 24.53 57 13.9 31.29 0 2025 25.31 58 14.43 31.29 0 2050 24.88 58 14.13 31.64 0 2100 24.87 57 14.19 31.64 0 2125 24.66 57 15.31 31.64 0 2150 24.63 57 13.78 31.64 0 2175 24.97 56 13.78 31.99 0 2200 25.08 55 13.84 31.64 0 2200 25.03 56 13.84 31.99 0 2225 25.3 55 13.66 32.34 0 2250 25.37 55 13.37 32.34 0 2225 25.39 54 13.31 32.34 0 2275 25.44 54 12.95 32.7 0 2275 25.56 54 13.01 32.7 0 2250 25.1 52 13.07 32.7 0 2300 24.88 52 13.13 32.7 0 2325 24.97 51 13.01 32.7 0 2350 25.4 52 13.01 32.7 0 2375 24.99 51 12.95 33.05 0 2375 25.19 51 13.19 33.05 0 2400 25.37 52 13.19 33.05 0 2375 25.17 50 13.07 33.05 0 2375 25.59 51 12.89 33.05 0 2400 25.5 50 12.95 33.05 0 2425 25.41 51 12.84 33.05 0 2425 25.39 51 13.13 33.05 0 2400 24.89 49 13.19 33.05 0 2400 25.34 50 12.78 33.05 0 2425 25.71 51 12.72 33.05 0 2400 25.59 51 12.89 33.05 0 2375 25.67 52 12.89 33.05 0 2350 25.55 51 12.78 33.05 0 2350 25.64 51 13.19 33.05 0 2425 25.42 50 12.84 33.05 0 2425 25.76 52 12.95 32.7 0 2400 25.39 51 12.95 33.05 0 2400 25.51 51 12.95 33.05 0 2350 25.74 51 13.37 33.05 0 2400 25.17 51 12.89 33.05 0 2375 25.12 50 13.01 32.7 0 2375 25.54 52 13.19 32.7 0 2350 25.58 53 13.31 32.7 0 2325 25.26 52 13.54 32.7 0 2300 25.65 52 13.25 32.7 0 2325 25.39 52 13.54 32.7 0 2300 25.34 53 13.19 32.34 0 2300 28.97 57 13.19 32.7 0 2350 31.59 64 13.13 32.7 0 2375 33.83 68 14.6 32.7 0 2375 34.41 70 15.37 33.05 0 2425 34.71 68 14.78 33.4 0 2425 34.17 67 15.84 33.4 0 2500 35.18 67 14.43 33.4 0 2550 34.95 66 14.55 33.75 0 2575 34.08 64 14.43 33.75 0 2575 33.97 62 14.78 33.75 0 2650 34.53 64 14.19 34.1 0 2650 35.66 63 14.13 34.1 0 2700 35.69 63 14.13 34.1 0 2725 37.91 65 13.72 34.1 0 2800 43.58 72 14.31 34.45 0 2825 44.17 73 14.66 34.45 0 2875 44.28 77 14.66 34.45 0 2875 45.48 76 15.37 34.45 0 2900 47.07 76 14.01 34.45 0 2975 47.37 78 13.78 34.45 0 2950 45.2 75 13.54 34.45 0 2975 45.78 72 13.6 34.1 0 3025 45.48 73 13.72 34.1 0 3050 48.24 76 13.78 34.1 0 3075 48.72 74 13.78 34.1 0 3075 46.54 72 13.84 34.1 0 3050 49.48 77 13.84 34.1 0 3050 51 77 13.84 34.1 0 3125 53.36 86 14.07 33.75 0 3125 51.93 81 13.78 34.1 0 3100 54.66 86 13.84 33.4 0 3150 60.62 92 13.84 32.7 0 3150 64.6 97 14.37 32.34 0 3200 65.51 97 14.43 32.34 0 3225 65.8 98 14.13 32.34 0 3200 75.28 106 13.72 31.64 0 3350 103.75 143 14.72 25.31 0 3425 129.37 171 15.14 22.15 0 3525 165.97 223 14.25 19.34 0 3775 164.41 212 12.72 18.98 0 3925 170.74 207 13.48 18.98 0 3950 170.79 210 13.6 19.34 0 3500 27.37 43 12.25 34.1 0 3550 16.44 24 12.25 34.1 0 3650 14.94 20 11.95 34.1 0 3550 14.3 20 12.84 34.1 0 3375 14.3 20 13.6 34.1 0 3275 13.4 20 13.78 34.1 0 3150 12.95 20 12.66 34.1 0 3050 13.94 21 12.54 34.1 0 2925 12.77 21 12.48 34.1 0 2825 12.53 22 12.42 34.1 0 2750 12.5 22 12.54 33.75 0 2625 12.21 22 12.66 33.75 0 2525 12.16 23 12.42 33.4 0 2450 12.01 23 12.66 33.05 0 2350 11.91 25 12.84 32.7 0 2250 11.77 26 12.89 31.99 0 2100 11.66 27 12.89 31.29 0 2075 11.49 27 12.84 30.94 0 2000 11.51 28 12.3 30.59 0 1875 11.23 29 12.42 30.23 0 1850 11.27 29 12.89 30.23 0 1825 11.03 30 13.37 29.53 0 1725 10.84 30 13.13 29.53 0 1700 10.83 31 12.84 29.18 0 1625 10.88 32 12.84 28.83 0 1575 10.75 34 13.07 28.83 0 1500 10.68 34 13.37 28.48 0 1475 10.81 35 12.89 28.48 0 1425 10.61 36 13.13 28.13 0 1375 10.55 38 12.84 27.77 0 1325 10.63 38 12.42 27.77 0 1300 10.6 39 12.84 27.42 0 1275 10.55 40 12.6 27.42 0 1225 10.49 42 12.42 27.07 0 1200 10.47 42 12.36 27.07 0 1200 10.49 42 12.19 27.07 0 1200 10.63 42 12.07 27.07 0 1200 10.58 42 12.19 27.07 0 1175 10.56 42 12.25 27.07 0 1175 10.61 43 12.66 27.07 0 1175 10.46 42 12.36 27.07 0 1200 10.59 42 13.01 27.07 0 1175 10.51 42 12.54 27.07 0 1200 10.59 43 12.48 26.72 0 1175 10.93 44 12.66 26.72 0 1175 10.43 44 12.89 26.72 0 1150 10.91 44 12.84 26.72 0 1150 10.31 44 12.89 26.72 0 1150 10.6 44 12.89 26.72 0 1150 10.51 44 13.01 26.72 0 1150 10.49 44 13.01 26.72 0 1150 10.45 43 13.01 26.72 0 1125 10.4 43 14.01 26.72 0 1150 10.58 44 13.01 26.72 0 1150 10.46 43 13.25 27.07 0 1150 10.12 42 13.54 26.72 0 1175 9.89 41 13.6 27.07 0 1150 9.38 39 13.13 26.72 0 1150 9.4 40 13.31 26.72 0 1125 9.24 39 13.31 26.72 0 1125 9.35 41 13.25 26.37 0 1075 9.43 42 13.31 26.37 0 1075 9.28 42 14.25 26.37 0 1025 9.39 43 13.25 26.37 0 1025 9.28 44 13.25 26.02 0 975 7.3 46 12.95 26.02 0
Last edited by Dirtbik3r; 07-26-2006 at 09:12 PM.
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07-26-2006, 10:10 PM
#8
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Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
6 deg *B TDC, hope not after.
Not sure on the light, though. Can you get any codes from it?
Not sure on the light, though. Can you get any codes from it?
07-27-2006, 06:58 AM
#9
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
Originally Posted by RednGold86Z
6 deg *B TDC, hope not after.
Not sure on the light, though. Can you get any codes from it?
Not sure on the light, though. Can you get any codes from it?
07-27-2006, 05:27 PM
#10
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
I do have another question though.
It has to be at 6* BTDC because there isn't a mark on the timing tab for 6* on the other side of zero.
But if it the base timing was truly 25*-30*,
Wouldn't setting it where I did make it more advanced?
I know counter clockwise advances but please explain
why this is. I feel like I'm contradicting myself. In other
words, why wouldn't 6* advanced go hand in hand with
6* ATDC?
To the other important topic, I can't get the check engine
light to repeat itself. I drove back and forth to work and
didn't have it come on at all.
It has to be at 6* BTDC because there isn't a mark on the timing tab for 6* on the other side of zero.
Code:
Timing Tab
12----8----4----0----4
^timing set there. Wouldn't setting it where I did make it more advanced?
I know counter clockwise advances but please explain
why this is. I feel like I'm contradicting myself. In other
words, why wouldn't 6* advanced go hand in hand with
6* ATDC?
To the other important topic, I can't get the check engine
light to repeat itself. I drove back and forth to work and
didn't have it come on at all.
07-27-2006, 07:51 PM
#11
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Car: 92 Form, 91 Z28, 89 GTA, 86 Z28
Engine: 5.7 TPI, LG4
Transmission: 700R4, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27, 2.73
I'm a little confused about your question, so, I'll just tell you a little about advance.
The 6 BTDC is used during cranking, and is fired directly by the ignition module (no ECU needed, which is why you have to disconnect the control wire to set the timing). When the RPM reaches 400, the ECU takes over.
6 ATDC vs 6 BTDC would be 12 degrees more RETARDED (aka less advance).
Advance is the number of degrees BEFORE TDC. More advance is a larger number. Too much advance will cause knock. Too little can reduce power, and efficiency, and if severe it can melt exhaust parts, and possibly pistons (due to the lack of efficiency, it keeps a lot of heat in the charge, and didn't use it for power).
The computer does not "KNOW" where to fire the coil, it only gets a reference pulse from the ignition module (which reads a reference from the pickup coil inside the distributor). The ECU then sends a time delayed signal to the module after recieving the reference pulse, such that the signal fires the coil when the ECU "Thinks" it's at the correct angle. If the distributor base timing is set to something OTHER than what is in the calibration (calibration has base timing set to 6 degrees), then the computer will be wrong. It can use knock control to try to save the engine from destructive knock though. This senses knock, and retards until it goes away, and the timing will slowly advance back up to the table value for mains spark timing, unless of course it sees knock again. The timing will not go above the main spark table (unless with other offsets, like warmup spark).
If you set the base timing to 8, or 10, or whatever, it's for trying to improve starting. If you do that, please set the base timing in the calibration to match the actual. Then your datalogs will show the correct value.
The 6 BTDC is used during cranking, and is fired directly by the ignition module (no ECU needed, which is why you have to disconnect the control wire to set the timing). When the RPM reaches 400, the ECU takes over.
6 ATDC vs 6 BTDC would be 12 degrees more RETARDED (aka less advance).
Advance is the number of degrees BEFORE TDC. More advance is a larger number. Too much advance will cause knock. Too little can reduce power, and efficiency, and if severe it can melt exhaust parts, and possibly pistons (due to the lack of efficiency, it keeps a lot of heat in the charge, and didn't use it for power).
The computer does not "KNOW" where to fire the coil, it only gets a reference pulse from the ignition module (which reads a reference from the pickup coil inside the distributor). The ECU then sends a time delayed signal to the module after recieving the reference pulse, such that the signal fires the coil when the ECU "Thinks" it's at the correct angle. If the distributor base timing is set to something OTHER than what is in the calibration (calibration has base timing set to 6 degrees), then the computer will be wrong. It can use knock control to try to save the engine from destructive knock though. This senses knock, and retards until it goes away, and the timing will slowly advance back up to the table value for mains spark timing, unless of course it sees knock again. The timing will not go above the main spark table (unless with other offsets, like warmup spark).
If you set the base timing to 8, or 10, or whatever, it's for trying to improve starting. If you do that, please set the base timing in the calibration to match the actual. Then your datalogs will show the correct value.
07-27-2006, 08:25 PM
#12
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
Originally Posted by RednGold86Z
I'm a little confused about your question, so, I'll just tell you a little about advance.
Originally Posted by RednGold86Z
Advance is the number of degrees BEFORE TDC.
07-30-2006, 05:15 PM
#14
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Car: 1992 Camaro RS - not real slow anymore...
Engine: SPDC 360 MAF EFI /w a Holley Stealth Ram
Transmission: T5 untill it blows up from to much torque
Axle/Gears: Ford 9" /w auburn pro & 3.89's
No matter what I do, the engine "hits a wall" right after 3800RPM's. I'm getting knock retard even when the advance is as little as 5* in my timing table at WOT... There is n't any problems when it is below that unhappy RPM. Do I need to advance the timing? What could be causing this? Figured the problem was related to my question last week posted in this thread...
Also, is Spark Adv Rel. to TDC supposed to be way off from Spark Adv Rel. to Ref Pulse? -Because it is.
Here is my current timing table.
Also, is Spark Adv Rel. to TDC supposed to be way off from Spark Adv Rel. to Ref Pulse? -Because it is.
Here is my current timing table.
Code:
23.55 29.53 37.27 31.29 28.48 24.96 23.91 20.39 16.88 13.36 10.20 5.27 23.55 29.53 38.67 33.75 28.13 24.61 23.20 20.04 15.12 12.30 11.60 5.27 21.80 22.50 38.67 33.75 29.53 28.48 23.20 16.88 16.88 11.60 9.49 8.79 21.80 32.34 38.67 36.91 32.70 31.99 31.29 20.74 17.23 11.60 11.60 9.84 22.15 35.86 38.32 37.62 34.45 31.29 31.29 23.91 20.04 17.58 17.58 16.17 24.26 34.81 38.32 37.62 38.67 36.21 36.21 29.53 24.61 22.15 20.39 16.17 24.96 33.05 38.32 37.62 38.67 37.62 36.21 31.99 28.13 23.55 22.15 20.39 24.96 33.05 38.32 37.62 38.67 37.62 36.21 34.45 28.83 23.55 23.20 22.15 25.66 33.75 37.97 37.62 37.62 36.91 36.21 33.75 28.83 23.55 23.20 21.45 25.66 31.99 35.86 37.27 37.62 36.21 33.75 33.75 29.53 22.15 20.39 19.69 25.66 30.23 34.45 36.21 34.45 33.75 31.29 28.13 24.96 22.15 20.39 19.69 24.26 27.42 32.34 33.75 31.99 31.99 31.29 28.83 26.37 20.39 18.63 17.23 23.91 24.96 29.88 31.64 29.88 30.23 29.53 26.37 21.45 17.23 17.23 14.77 23.91 23.91 26.02 26.02 24.26 21.09 18.98 13.01 11.25 9.14 5.98 5.98 23.91 23.91 26.02 26.02 22.15 20.04 16.17 10.90 9.84 8.09 5.98 5.98 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 20.04 16.17 10.90 9.84 8.09 5.98 5.98 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 16.17 10.90 9.84 8.09 5.98 5.98
Last edited by Dirtbik3r; 07-30-2006 at 05:22 PM.
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