I started burning just to get my car running. I followed the posts on commercialism. I'd like to again find out where everyone is on the subject.

I burned a chip for a local because a 'custom' tuner royally f***ed it up. We took six hours on a Sunday datalogging and performance testing and burning new versions. When we were done, the car was a whole lot faster, but more importantly, was perfectly drivable. He asked how much he owed and I said nothing. I learned how to program from people's altruism and I use WinBin which is a free program. He slipped me a small tip. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Now, to muddy the waters, what if someone wants an over-the-phone chip - something simple like turning off VATS, fan on temp, etc? I've never done that because I want to touch the car before I'd do anything. But it would be simple. Could I do this in good conscience for free? What about for a small fee for my time and 'expertise'?

I'm not going into business and I don't plan on charging for any tuning, I just want to get an idea where the DIY PROM community stands right now.

Sorry for the non tech post.

 

Well, I think that depends on the situation. If someone were to ask me, I'd try to help them out, but make them definitively understand that I accept no responsibility if they ****up something. Turning on/off vats shouldn't be able to **** anything up, but altering AFR ratios or spark tables might.

Often I try to help out by pointing in the right direction to find the material so that they can do it themselves. It's no-fun to just ask someone to do it for you if you know what I mean

------------------
ZaphodB a.k.a Carl Andersson - zaphodb@faxancruisers.org
'89 Camaro IROC-Z 5.7L TPI - Mods under construction :-)
Custom ARAP Chip Under Development/180 t-stat, Edelbrock TES Headers,
SLP Airfoil, K&N Filters, Accel 8mm wires, Relocated MAT, AFPR @ 45 PSI

 

Make a penny your on my short list.
I have years of work in on this stuff trying to get folks awake, and informed about what is going on. I totally resent any cashing in on what I've worked so hard to be a hobby type item.
If someone is already doing chips when they get here, and share their info., that *sorta* is a different animal, since they had alot of clues coming in. But, when someone starts selling chips, after being here, that crosses my line.

Also, be aware, you legally marry a car when it's running your chip. I think that is why some of the vendors do as little as they can get by with, so that they can't get hung in court. Plus, they carry the insurance to fight an insurance co., if there is a failure, remember Audi?.

If a guy has a problem, tell him what he needs to do to fix it. Just like what we do here. That way every one wins.

According to the Dicitionary, being nice, means being wantingly foolish.

 

I agree. When i got my car. It wasn't my car until i got to work on it. I've had people around here offer me money for simple stuff like "Why the SES light comes on." when it only takes me a couple minutes. It wouldn't be right to accept money.

(sorry for the gruesome typeing. I have stiches across the back of my hand. Therefore i can't type but with one hand without pulling stitches. I think i fixed most typeing errors, lol)

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89 IROC-Z 350 TPI

-Flowmaster Catback
-Performance Resource Chip
-700R4 (Rebuilt) Too much done to actually list
-K&N Airfilters
-Ported Plenum
-2.77 Gears (not much to brag about but eh, its there)
-MSD 8.5 mm plug wires
-Gutted cat
-!AIR
-Gutted Air Boxes

 

I'm with the others on this: DIY PROM Board is for sharing information so we ALL WIN. I get e-mails all the time requesting burning eproms. I now refuse. I had helped in the past with a simple change, but I've been burned there...where a person all of the sudden wanted something else change and then another...until I basically said NO MORE...buy the equipment. Then, when the person started having problems (any problem) I constantly got e-mails asking me how to fix it. Trust me, I learnt my lesson on being a good Samaratan.

My position now is, if you can't be bothered to get the Prom Burning equipment, I can't be bothered to help. I consider owning the Prom Burning equipment the "cost of membership" to the DIY PROM Board. Sure, I will still assist another DIY'er and may even take a look at the BIN etc, but if you are looking for a PROM, my position now is go buy a custom prom.

Let's face it, generally when someone is looking for a PROM, they want EVERYTHING possible and want to pay the least amount possible. Else, they would be contacting Ed Wright or Formato.

 

I thought that was the general consensus and I agree. I'm just geting frustrated with all the new burners who are 'helping' people out for a fee. Especially when they royally screw up like the people who programmed the EPROM for the guy I helped. He didn't drive his car for two years and threw all new electrical components at it because they didn't know how to tune a car.

 

I won't tell ya what nonsense I've seen over the years.
Nuff to make ya cry

 

Glenn, isnt that the way most things are on this board (thirdgen.org) ? Everyone wants some magic part that makes their car run 10 second times for ten dollars.


------------------
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

I suppose everyone is capable of rebuilding a 700r4 too.

------------------
1987 Trans Am GTA WS6
5.7L SuperRam
4L60-E Trans
3.73 SRD

1987 Pontiac Fiero
3800 Series II
4T60-E Trans
3.33 Final Drive

1988 Pontiac Grand Am
3800 Series I
125-C Trans

1966 Plymouth Belvedere II
318 Semi-Hemi 2bbl
Torqueflite 727 Trans

Domestic Terrors Car Club Online

[This message has been edited by MadMax350 (edited July 02, 2001).]

 

>>>I suppose everyone is capable of rebuilding a 700r4 too.

Well, yes. Given the right tools, instructions, and attention span anyone can rebuild a TH700-R4. I've seen some real chimps working in garages that managed to put complex assemblies together and have them work reliably. Just follow the steps.

Tim Sifford (AKA: TRAXXION) condensed a lot of publicly-available info into a set of easily readable instructions covering how to burn PROMs. Take this, buy the tools, (cheaper than most aftermarket PROMs) ask questions here, and you'll get results. That's too much effort or $ for some people.

Tough noogies says I. If somebody wants to go into the chip-burning business they deserve the barage of whiny e-mails they'll incur.

------------------
1982 Z-28

See http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=276 for details

 

I think if a person does work for me or if I work for them, you should get paid. well sort of. If i'm at your house doing work for ya... well I need to be taken care of..... (drinks, (PEPSI, MOUNTAIN DEW), and maybe food if i'm there long enough. as for money.... well I would of had to built you a house then.
that's my story...

 

This list is about teaching how to do proms, nothing else. It's meant as an education forum.

 

Grumpy....

Have you ever learned to do something or got started doing something from what someone else taught you? I bet most mechanics started out learning and working with friends and family. Did you refuse to ever take money for it afterwards feeling that you were ripping off the person that taught you? Or did you figure out everything you ever earned a dollar for? Everyone has to start somewhere. Some people here may advance in weeks beyond what you could and did in years. Does this still mean they are bonded to an agreement to never profit from their skills? I understand your feelings that you don't want people to pick up a little information from you and turn it in to a business for themselves. At the same time if you are afraid of what may come of your knowledge don't give it out. Once it is on the internet you have no control over it, for good and bad. I just assumed everyone here freely gave information just to chat about the stuff they like the most, third gen f-bodies. I appreciate the information you provide but if how it may be used bothers you then reconsider giving it out.

Another point is that maybe not everyone is up to speed with this computer crap. Rather than spend months or even decades just getting started it is alot easier just to fork over a little cash to a friend and get a custom chip. You win, your friend wins, and everyone drinks a beer afterwards.

I might add that you don't "legally marry" a car once you put any part on it. Otherwise I need to start making a few phone calls for parts I bought that destroyed thousands of dollars worth of other parts. How many people have had a cam go flat and ruin the crank and bearings? I could name a few just off the top of my head. How many had a new cam and crank kit delivered to their door free of charge? None. A few lucky ones get a new cam. If it was as legally binding as you feel Keith Black would be out of business tomorrow over their pistons.

The best suggestion I can make is when you start charging money treat it as a business. Have a set of established and stated policies. Have an outline of what they get for how much money and so forth. A friend throwing you a few dollars is one thing but when it is a stranger they feel that they are paying for something. Since they are going to feel that way make sure its an agreement on what they get. Doing things in a loose hand shake manner can cause problems. If you plan on doing it on a regular basis actually set up a business. I would discourage you from taking over-the-phone orders or any type unless you are serious about doing it as a business. Its just deep enough to cause yourself headaches if you handle it loosely. At the same time it is not worth the trouble of doing it professionally.

 

AMEN! I agree with Grand Prix. If someone wants to do proms to help a fellow GM owner out, go for it. I sense a lot of bitterness on this board towards people who feel like I do. I don't charge people for making proms in order to make a profit. If I charge, it is to only cover my costs and time. Besides, the more cars you have an opportunity to work on, the more experience you gain and everybody wins.

If this were a perfect world, everyone would have the money and ability to program their own stuff. But lets face it; that is an unrealistic possibility.

I appreciate all who contribute to this board. There is some real talent here. But I think we can do without the negative feelings directed towards those who seek to help those who have no desire to do it themselves.

This is just my opinion.

 

If you don't like this board then you are free to start your own.
This board is about learning.