Ford 302 to GM EFI
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
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From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
Ford 302 to GM EFI
First, let me thank everyone on this site for all of the information i've acquired here. This is my first post, but I've been reading for a long time. On to the question.
Brief summary:
I have a 1980 Ford 302, originally with throttle body fuel injection. I've added a 1986/7 intake system (manifolds, fuel rails, throttle body, etc) in order to convert this engine to EFI. I have a GM 1227727 ECM, all the necessary sensors, GM fuel injectors, yadda yadda. I'm going to be using Moate's Ostich to tune this engine and one of his coworkers will be tuning the car. (Craig lives about 3 minutes down the road from me)
Currently I'm trying to figure out exactly how to get my ignition system setup. From what I've read and understand, I can use a Ford Duraspark II distributor and rewire a GM ignition module to it, which obviously will connect to the GM ECM. Can anyone confirm this setup for my application? Does anyone have a diagram or some information about wiring these together? Do I need a specific GM module? What coil should I use?
Would you recommend just snagging a wiring harness from a GM to wire my setup? This is going into a 1967 Mustang that is completely gutted right now.
If anyone can provide links to sites that have accomplished my setup, that would be very helpful. After the setup is complete I'll release a PDF document with all of my information on Moate's website and others. Thanks again. Here's a picture of the engine
Brief summary:
I have a 1980 Ford 302, originally with throttle body fuel injection. I've added a 1986/7 intake system (manifolds, fuel rails, throttle body, etc) in order to convert this engine to EFI. I have a GM 1227727 ECM, all the necessary sensors, GM fuel injectors, yadda yadda. I'm going to be using Moate's Ostich to tune this engine and one of his coworkers will be tuning the car. (Craig lives about 3 minutes down the road from me)
Currently I'm trying to figure out exactly how to get my ignition system setup. From what I've read and understand, I can use a Ford Duraspark II distributor and rewire a GM ignition module to it, which obviously will connect to the GM ECM. Can anyone confirm this setup for my application? Does anyone have a diagram or some information about wiring these together? Do I need a specific GM module? What coil should I use?
Would you recommend just snagging a wiring harness from a GM to wire my setup? This is going into a 1967 Mustang that is completely gutted right now.
If anyone can provide links to sites that have accomplished my setup, that would be very helpful. After the setup is complete I'll release a PDF document with all of my information on Moate's website and others. Thanks again. Here's a picture of the engine
Last edited by mayh3m; Nov 29, 2006 at 06:28 PM.
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From: Schererville , IN
Car: 91 GTA, 91 Formula, 89 TTA
Engine: all 225+ RWHP
Transmission: all OD
Axle/Gears: Always the good ones
I have no concrete info on this swap.
SaturnV aka Bob has some info on this , since I know he was working on the same thing at one point.
Rbob might have some info, but I'm not sure.
If u run across anything positive send us alink so we can build a reference for other makes/models on GM ecm's
later
Jeremy
SaturnV aka Bob has some info on this , since I know he was working on the same thing at one point.
Rbob might have some info, but I'm not sure.
If u run across anything positive send us alink so we can build a reference for other makes/models on GM ecm's
later
Jeremy
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
Yep,
The Ford uses a similiar triggering set-up in the dissy to what GM does. Just remote mount a GM V8 ignition module of the same vintage ecm your using.
You might have to flip the two wires to the module so that with the tan blk wire disconnected the timing slightly advances as you raise the RPM.
There have been a number of blown Fords that while they looked like they had a Ford ecm in them, they actually had GM 749s......
Any single coil V8 has a lack of coil charging time, at high RPM, so for decent results a CD system with appropriate coil is best.
Depends on your wiring skills, I always buy a couple *junk* harnesses off ebay and then cut/ splice them till I have what I want.
----------
<sigh>
The Ford uses a similiar triggering set-up in the dissy to what GM does. Just remote mount a GM V8 ignition module of the same vintage ecm your using.
You might have to flip the two wires to the module so that with the tan blk wire disconnected the timing slightly advances as you raise the RPM.
There have been a number of blown Fords that while they looked like they had a Ford ecm in them, they actually had GM 749s......
Any single coil V8 has a lack of coil charging time, at high RPM, so for decent results a CD system with appropriate coil is best.
Depends on your wiring skills, I always buy a couple *junk* harnesses off ebay and then cut/ splice them till I have what I want.
----------
I have no concrete info on this swap.
SaturnV aka Bob has some info on this , since I know he was working on the same thing at one point.
Rbob might have some info, but I'm not sure.
If u run across anything positive send us alink so we can build a reference for other makes/models on GM ecm's
SaturnV aka Bob has some info on this , since I know he was working on the same thing at one point.
Rbob might have some info, but I'm not sure.
If u run across anything positive send us alink so we can build a reference for other makes/models on GM ecm's
Last edited by Grumpy; Nov 29, 2006 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
good info. what do you mean by a cd system? i'm well informed on many levels, but ignition just isn't one. i'll just get a junk gm harness and wire as needed. do you know which vehicle i should get the duraspark II out of? or does it not really matter
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,262
Likes: 1
From: houston
Car: 83 POS monte carlo 2015 chevy P/U
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi 5.3
Transmission: 700r4 6L60E
Axle/Gears: 2.42 too high
i could be wrong, but i think Grumpy may be hinting at going with DIS instead of using a distributor.
you'll need a ford duraspark distributor that fits your motor, one without vacuum advance would be best, but off hand i don't remember ford building a distributor that had a reluctor & didn't have vacuum advance, so you will probably need to remove the vacuum advance & lock down the pickup in it.
if you do it like this, be sure to line up the rotor properly with the cap when you lock down the pickup.
mount the GM ignition module on a heat sink or it won't last. i would also recommend twisting the wires running from the distributor to the module together & then shielding them.
seems there was a guy on here who put a GM TBI ECM system in his Jeep truck, i think it was last year. a search for Jeep here in the DYI PROM board may turn some of his posts up.
you'll need a ford duraspark distributor that fits your motor, one without vacuum advance would be best, but off hand i don't remember ford building a distributor that had a reluctor & didn't have vacuum advance, so you will probably need to remove the vacuum advance & lock down the pickup in it.
if you do it like this, be sure to line up the rotor properly with the cap when you lock down the pickup.
mount the GM ignition module on a heat sink or it won't last. i would also recommend twisting the wires running from the distributor to the module together & then shielding them.
seems there was a guy on here who put a GM TBI ECM system in his Jeep truck, i think it was last year. a search for Jeep here in the DYI PROM board may turn some of his posts up.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Actually, IF it will fit in front of the EFI intake, there are HEI distributers on the market for small block ford engines. It would be a simple matter of rewiring the inside to take a 7 pin module in place of the standard 4 pin and locking out the advance mechanisms. They could probably even build you one like that to begin with.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...tor/index2.php
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...utor/index.php
http://www.performancedistributors.com/
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...tor/index2.php
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...utor/index.php
http://www.performancedistributors.com/
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Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
great links fast3555. now if i can only find something similar for not $400. is this also a compatible unit, just minus the coil? http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1∂=MSD%2D8598&N=700+400122+115&autoview=sku
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
On the Ford end, as far as I know they're all about the same.
As far as the GM module goes, you want to run one similiar to the code your using. ie if you're going to run the 8D code, then use an ignition module from a 90 F-Body.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
While DIS does beat a single coil setup, one can do pretty good with just a good Capacitive Discharge system. The prolbem is as you approach 6,000 RPM the coil just runs out of time, to fully charge itself. A CS with a primary voltage of ~400 volts has a much faster rise time, and that allows the coil to perform better at high RPM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
good information so far guys. let me just confirm that this should be NO PROBLEM on an EFI setup right?? some guy in a local distributor shop is telling me that it wont work for EFI....i think the guy needs a new job.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
It's 6, V8 TBI coils, each with it's own CD module.
They're fired in DIS mode, and thus provide multispark from idle to redline.
Yep, IMO, there's no such thing as having too much igntion.
Obviously, I'm into performance more then looks. <G>
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
I want to know more about this setup. Looking to do somethings similar with my 350 TBI. What are you using for CD modules.
HaulinA$$ is trying to put togather something using the later TBI PCM.
Also what kind of car is that 3.8 in?
Is that a street rod?
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,262
Likes: 1
From: houston
Car: 83 POS monte carlo 2015 chevy P/U
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi 5.3
Transmission: 700r4 6L60E
Axle/Gears: 2.42 too high
mayh3m, that guy has never been to this site & seen the things some of these guys make work, Grumpy is a good example. also check out some of the things Fast355 is working on. these are just two people, the are others.
i don't know if this will help you or not.
there are some links at the top you want to follow,
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ead.php?t=1182
jeepguy553 has done a GM TBI ECM swap to his jeep, the AMC duraspark distributor is very close to a ford dissy.
also, you may want to PM ben73, he has done a ford 302 to GM TBI swap.
something else that you will need to do, put a GM IAC on it, i think that will be the hardest part for you to work out.
i don't know if this will help you or not.
there are some links at the top you want to follow,
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ead.php?t=1182
jeepguy553 has done a GM TBI ECM swap to his jeep, the AMC duraspark distributor is very close to a ford dissy.
also, you may want to PM ben73, he has done a ford 302 to GM TBI swap.
something else that you will need to do, put a GM IAC on it, i think that will be the hardest part for you to work out.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,262
Likes: 1
From: houston
Car: 83 POS monte carlo 2015 chevy P/U
Engine: 92 5.7 tpi 5.3
Transmission: 700r4 6L60E
Axle/Gears: 2.42 too high
While DIS does beat a single coil setup, one can do pretty good with just a good Capacitive Discharge system. The prolbem is as you approach 6,000 RPM the coil just runs out of time, to fully charge itself. A CS with a primary voltage of ~400 volts has a much faster rise time, and that allows the coil to perform better at high RPM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
mayh3m, that guy has never been to this site & seen the things some of these guys make work, Grumpy is a good example. also check out some of the things Fast355 is working on. these are just two people, the are others.
i don't know if this will help you or not.
there are some links at the top you want to follow,
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ead.php?t=1182
jeepguy553 has done a GM TBI ECM swap to his jeep, the AMC duraspark distributor is very close to a ford dissy.
also, you may want to PM ben73, he has done a ford 302 to GM TBI swap.
something else that you will need to do, put a GM IAC on it, i think that will be the hardest part for you to work out.
i don't know if this will help you or not.
there are some links at the top you want to follow,
http://www.justih.org/Binder-Bench/s...ead.php?t=1182
jeepguy553 has done a GM TBI ECM swap to his jeep, the AMC duraspark distributor is very close to a ford dissy.
also, you may want to PM ben73, he has done a ford 302 to GM TBI swap.
something else that you will need to do, put a GM IAC on it, i think that will be the hardest part for you to work out.
Last edited by mayh3m; Dec 1, 2006 at 11:46 AM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
denn_shah, fantastic link. i found that link before, but wasn't quite sure what i was looking at. but now that i've read it, it's exactly what i'm looking for with a wiring diagram to boot. thanks man!
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: new orleans
Car: 67 mustang
Engine: ford 302
Transmission: aod
Axle/Gears: 3:55
yea i think you're right fast355. i have another specific question. those articles show gutting out a duraspark 2 and putting the reluctor and things into a holley. is he doing this only because his holley is designed for a GM vehicle? if so, i should be able to just use the duraspark 2 w/ the GM module, wire them up and call it done???
Last edited by mayh3m; Dec 1, 2006 at 04:34 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 229
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From: Doghouse
Car: Pro Stadium Tough Truck
Engine: Buick V6 272 cu in
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: Broken most of the time
Quick idea on the wiring. I bought 14 different colors of 20 and 18 gage wires (about 12 feet long each) at a local high-end car audio shop. They had a whole rack in the back and I think I only paid about $25 for the whole bunch. Just an idea.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
One of those 87 Buicks, I think there's a badge saying something about Grand National somewhere... <G>
This spring I'll be unleashing a Stang with a Buick V6 in it. It'll be a *hotrod*. <G>
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,450
Likes: 510
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Any CD will work, thou I perfer those that offer multisparks. They have to use a later design, then just a single spark CD.
One of those 87 Buicks, I think there's a badge saying something about Grand National somewhere... <G>
This spring I'll be unleashing a Stang with a Buick V6 in it. It'll be a *hotrod*. <G>
One of those 87 Buicks, I think there's a badge saying something about Grand National somewhere... <G>
This spring I'll be unleashing a Stang with a Buick V6 in it. It'll be a *hotrod*. <G>
I saw the empty firewall and immediately thought old school Buick hot rod.
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He's adapting an older IH points distributor to Ford electronics... and then GM..., so dont worry about that, just the wiring shown above by Fast355. I'd cut off and throw away the Ford connectors from the pickup and the wiring harness from the dist to Duraspark you probably dont have, and substitute a 3 pin weatherpack/GM style connector. The Ford connectors have a tendency to break over time and use and dont seal as well.
You may come across distributors that look different, but are the same because there are 2 different caps that can be used. I'd use the larger cap if possible but it may hit a straight monte carlo brace if you have one. They also have different style connectors on the cap. Either cap can be used on any distributor though.
You may come across distributors that look different, but are the same because there are 2 different caps that can be used. I'd use the larger cap if possible but it may hit a straight monte carlo brace if you have one. They also have different style connectors on the cap. Either cap can be used on any distributor though.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 1
From: In reality
Car: An Ol Buick
Engine: Vsick
Transmission: Janis Tranny Yank Converter
----------
I like being about to mount a good coil on the fenderwell, where it's cooler. heat affects resistance, and the cooler the coil the better it's operation. Maybe a minor thing, but details do tend to add up.
Last edited by Grumpy; Dec 2, 2006 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Are you referring to the large GM cap? I havent had any issues with the large Ford cap, the coil is already remotely mounted (although early stangs generally have them mounted to the head). I agree on the GM stuff though, too much heat and no place to vent it besides where you dont want it.
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