I found this Goldmine of a link it gave me alot of useful insight!
For all the times this forum helped me I just wanted to share
http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com/
Ed

 

Interesting information. Mostly geared toward the LS series of engines, but informative. The discussion on the non-linear injector flow rate vs fuel pressure is a good read. I've seen this with TBI injectors. The stock LS engines use a returnless fuel rail at the engine. The fuel pressure is held constant, but with the varying manifold presssure the injector sees the fuel pressure as changing.

RBob.

 

Its a pretty slick setup how they fix it in the Ls1 tables too.

Kind of freaky the first time u see it until you realize why.

later
Jeremy

 

I am honored by your replies. RBob you have given us such valuable insight & non super fudggie Solutions..... I am trying to get my buddie to FI his beast using your super improved totaly awesome ebl.
Jermey Kewl car great attitude. Thanks Guys for
SHARING ALL Of YOUR VALUABLE EFFORTS with us n00bs !


Oh and for being the real deal Thanks to you Grumpy for pushing, doing, showing, and insisting on keeping code validity tops!
OH YEAH GRUMPY THIS IS ALL ABOUT VE and how it's so so so critical
I like Speed Density b/c it works with 3bar

L8R
Ed

 

His discussion about MAF and SD is interesting. Ive been discovering those things the hard way. At P/T and steady state WOT, the MAF is great. High precision sensor that provides repeatable fueling under variable weather conditions. But, it can get really screwy. During a sudden throttle snap, the whole intake rings like a bell, and this really screws up a MAF only setup. This same reason also makes it a bad idea to use a large MAF on a non-SD TPI setup. Definatly need to use both systems at once, or use a different type of MAF. There are MAFs made by Visteon (Ford) and Siemens that claim to be able to reject alot of the pulsations.

Below is a 300 msec datalog of what the PCM sees during a rapid throttle opening. Notice the decaying sinusoidal wave after the airflow comes up.

 

Need better glue...

 

I especially liked the part where he proves that a MAF table is a third order polynomial representation and that after calibration if it no longer represents this, you know that you tweaked the wrong table. Too many tuners go right to the MAF table and start tweaking not taking into consideration the function of the MAF table. The rage with the LS1 kids is to descreen the MAF thinking it gives an HP boost when all it really does destabilize the flow around the element and cause a dirty signal.

Definetly some good stuff there. It made my favorites list after reading the first article.

 

I definately agree with you there Tom.

I am still running a totally stock 5.3 MAF sensor with a totally stock 5.3 MAF calibration table in my G20 Van. 350 TBI with ZZ4 cam and ported 305 heads. The only change was to bump the lowest cell to what I usually idle at. That way the engine will atleast idle long enough if the PCM loses the MAF sensor signal to set code 17 (MAF) and to switch over to speed density fueling.

The screen is still intact on my MAF sensor.

 

Yeah, descreening is probably one of the worst things you can do. With a MAF that big, theres no point to rip out the flow straightener, anyway.

On delphi's site, there is a really good SAE article that discusses the empirical equiations for a MAF sensor, as well as stratagies for reading it in. Definatly worth reading, if your into MAF.

 

It is nice to see everyone is enjoying this. Thats why DIY-Guys ROCK!
Till L8R
Ed

 

Another TPIS "Insider Hint" that does more harm than good. Ditto on their relocating the MAT (unless it's SD & you are prepared to adjust various tables in the eprom)...Cranking up the fuel pressure (without some re-tuning of the eprom as well)...Using colder T-stats (and what you need to do if you run one)..If I think hard, I'm sure I can think of a few more.

We could almost do a FAQ on the "Do's and Don'ts" to behind "Insider Hints".

 

Advancing the initial timing

Adjusting the TPS out of design specs

 

That would be great! I am serious I am a computer guy, not a pcm/ecm guy and always wondered what bad comes with that "good".

 

If you look at some of the older SD tuning posts you will see similiar findings where you want to get the tune to follow the commanded AFR. Even on the 727/730 $8d tune this is more elusive than you would expect even when you throw out the MAF all together. It is also interesting to note if you look at the next generation PCM's -LT1's in particular when GM first came out with the dual setup there is much debate as to the VE table doing anything because it is widely thought that the system is only for a backup. Last but not least he talks about EFI live and it's autotune capabilities. With ScannerPro I believe we will have the same capabilites with a little work.

 

BUMP.

. TO KEEP PEOPLE AWARE.... OF WHAT,HOW, AND WHY!!!!

THIS IS SO DYNAMIC --<- a BAD *** MOUSESUPERTRAPP





craig'S DIGITAL ELECTRON KNOW HOW & EFILive’s R&D labs ----> WOW!!!!

Real-Time Automated Calibration System (RTACS) for the LS1 PCMs. Based on the high performance Roadrunner real-time hardware; RTACS is a natural extension of EFILive's tightly integrated Scan/Tune feedback loop, used by tuners around the world for over 12 months.

RTACS uses feedback from a Wide Band O2 sensor to allow the EFILive software to automatically adjust the VE Table (as an example) in realtime so the PCM's commanded Air Fuel Ratio's match those measured by the Wide Band O2 sensor. Because EFILive and RoadRunner use High Speed USB ports there is no lag in the real time system and changes happen instantly.

With new features such as Map Masking, Data Filters, Target Indicators and both Fine and Coarse adjustments, EFILive’s real time tuning solution is impossible to beat.

Map Masking allows the tuner to restrict the target cells so that the real-time calibration adjustments are applied to only that user defined subset of cells.

Data Filters remove data spikes and transient values that would otherwise skew the feedback loop and produce erroneous results.

Target Indicators highlight the cells that are within the correct percentage.

Fine and Course adjustments allow for large adjustment early, followed by finer adjustments as the automated process nears completion.

The EFILive RTACS feature gives your LS1 PCM true real time automatic tuning capabilities, normally only found in expensive aftermarket EFI computers designed for racing applications.

EFILive’s RTACS is currently in beta testing and we expect it to be available in a week or two, along with some other software enhancements.
As usual EFILive’s free software update policy means ALL EFILive customers will be able to download the new software package free of charge and those with access to a RoadRunner PCM can start using the real time, automated, calibration adjustments.



aN OLD WISE *** BOSS ONCE SAID" STUPID ASSES NEVER HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO IT RIGHT, BUT THERE WILL HAVE TO BE TIME TO DO IT TWICE!"
----------
FOR ME ITS NORMALY THREE CUZ MURPHY A WOMAN. AND SHE MAKE ME "MENTAL. THAT SKIRT ", I OTTA TO THE MOON ALICE!

 

Please do not "bump" for that reason alone. I am prepared to discuss with RBob and Jeremy whether they think it should be incorporated into the stickies with our Eprom Burning guide. But I don't think it should constantly get "bumped" to top.

"Bumping" is generally for bring attention to unanswered questions.

Thx.

 

I haven't forgotten about this. I'm still waiting to discuss this with Bob & Jeremy about incorporating this article (and a couple of others) into our stickies.

 

CrAzYFAsteDDiE was here!!! leaving my mark
------>>THIS GUYS MONIKER ROCKS-> THE REAL DEAL--->--->--->--->"I’d like to enhance our ability to arrive at the precise numbers that reflect reality!"
p.s. LOOK FOR LIGHT OR HINT

http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com/ ---> hint deceving name b/c it has no rice in sight; oh yeah that clown got left hes still back at the last light suckka.


A table of contents blurb to peak intrest. He blogs his desire for acheving precision that reflects reality. ...And so so so ...Plus many many useful spreadsheets
Speed Density Paper Cylinder Volume Cranking VE Injector Sizing
VE tuning Injector setup(IFR) RAF, Idle tuning Shiftpoints and Powerband Optimization
Injectors, AFR, VE relationship Dyno from HPT logs MAF calibration VE-IFR transformation
Fuel Pump sizing IFR spreadsheet for Logged Fuel Pressure Under (Fuel) Pressure
Why tune VE? Unscrewing a bad tune, Part 2
Terminology and Confusion, part 2 (OLvsCL) Terminology and Confusion, part 1 Tuning Methodology


GRIM THANKS FOR YOUR KNUDGE---> cAN I USE A NUDGE OR ELBOW AS AN EFFECTIVE METHOD OF INFORMATION TRANSMISSION!! SORRY I KNOW I WON'T BUT HEHE

his other blog was only got a heading but that says it all
The other his blog "Beat The Average ---> Because We Know Better a blog from guys that killed your curve scoring"
He will not settle just for average to remain deviations away like us.... Actually I am a self use / personal car DIY GUY but damn I know what because I care.



xlast for MY the agenda ->Jermey this ones really a solid reference 4U ---->I really love it--->


COMMON SENSE GUIDES THESE BOOKS ARE BIBLES FOR US THEY TEACH/TELL US INFO THAT MAKE US GO REAL FAST W/o B/S


A. Graham Bells Forced Induction Performance Tuning a practical guide to supercharging and turbocharging >>>> ie green bible of bo0STY!

HINT---- THE LIGHT ----
---- HARCOVER NICE ...
----OUT OF MY VAST COLLECTION LESS THAN 5% HAVE HARDCOVERS..
GOOD FOR SMACKING INGORANCE OUT OF BEST KNOW IT ALL- BUDS-


BUY THESE BOOKS WRITTEN BY A. GRAHAM BELL HE'S A TRUE DIY TUNING MENTOR FOR EVERYONE. NO ONE WOULD EVER GO WRONG IF YOU DO YOUR NOT A DIY GUY.

THEY MAKE US SUPER SUCESSSFUL IN MAKING THOSE LEMONS
INTO YUMMY LEMONAIDE

http://www.amazon.com/Induction-Perf...907557-1947816

http://www.amazon.com/Four-Stroke-Pe...907557-1947816

fAST eDDIE


http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Engine-...e=UTF8&s=books

Calling EVERYONE WHO HAS THESE WONDERFUL REFERENCES PLEASE GIVE ME A FEW WORDS OF YOUR FEELINGS TOWARDS

I am being silly knowing this is the last time I do that w/o a better reason than i am I just always eat to much sugar. fAST eDDIE BUMP sTART

FYI This post was hours of my life B/C you guys are WORTH IT!!! and i'll email it to my own thick headed buds.

 

I miss that CSH!

He always had a flair for making his POV known!

You know I was disapointed when he didn't reply to this!

I was sad to findout it was due to his declining health made his hobbies a secondary priority!

Well his influence on us will never go away!
God Speed Master G!
You know his spirit was hardcore!
Eddie
On a side note knowing his past ways I would be supprised if he had them
bury him *** up so anyone who rubbed him the wrong way
skidwn/kvu Can kiss it!!!!
LOL!

This is an result of 5:15am nostalgia TGO is THE SOURCE FOR HUMBLE WISDOM
THIS PLACE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Final ANSWER ---> LOOK NO FURTHER!

 

FYI, Bruce made his peace with Tim (aka kvu/11sOrBust) and they were quite friendly with each other in the end.