How do I get moates and tuner pro to work together? I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure it out.

 

OK, I found a bin close to my setup (i broke a prong on the original prom removing it). Where or how do I adjust for different/larger injectors(24 lbs.)? Does 00 in the hex column denote 8 cylinder or does it have to have the $ in front.

 

Todd, slow down man. You need to be a bit more specific. What year car, what bin, what ecm. What moates product are you using?? (moates is the MFG...not product). Have you read any of the stickies in this forum? I suggest that because unless you show you've tried to atleast get a basic education in DIY tuning (meaning you atleast read some of the stickies) then you're not going to get alot of help until you do.

 

I have an 87 iroc z-28 with a 5.7. The ecm ID is 1227165. BIN size is 16Kb. The 5.7 has a MAF. I have done research on this site about burning my own proms and I burned one last night after going back and forth and figuring some basics out. The bin I used last night made the car run very, very rich. The problem is that I don't have any EEPROM's, and only have 2 27SF512 proms so now I only have one left. I'm using Moates flash and burn software with Tuner Pro. I'm not trying to get into a rush but I learn better by doing rather than reading.

 

Alright...now you've given good info for people to chime in and help. What are you using to burn eproms? Some burners have an erase or blank feature so you can reuse your chips. I hear you with learning by doing but BE CAREFUL....with this stuff you can inadvertantly ruin things easily...washing cylinder walls down with too rich of a mixture and obviously do damage with the exact opposite. This is where I leave off because what I know for tuning so far is very specific to my combo of ECM, code, engine, etc.

 

The 27F512 requires that you do an erase before reburning the chip.
The program size of 16K requires that it be put at the end of the chip space.
you can do this by offsetting the position you burn it to or by stacking your program several times to the chip.
That may be what is causing your troubles.
just thought I'd put that here for you. Details can be found on moates site concerning the offest values needed. TunerPro can stack the bins for you also.

 

I got the whole kit from Moates that comes with the zif. so it fits like stock. Is there a web site that gives more specific definitions and instructions pertaining to burning EPROM's and programming on your own? I would like to do this myself and hope I can but it seems the more involved I get the more complicated it becomes. I hope I have not biten off more than I can chew.

 

Alot of us felt the same way you are feeling rite now when
first getting started

Didn't say what hardware from Moates you have and that info would help others to help you.
Also read the Documentation and Forums on Moates site as
to problem solving.
I've been at it, off and on, for about 6 months and just scratching the surface. As a hobby, a heck of alot of fun,
in my case.

Like they will tell you, Read the stickies at the top of this forum over and over again.
Remember, no such thing as a dumb question, Well hardly ever
APU1 & TunerPro RT

Later

 

I have read the sticky's over and over, even going back and forth while programming the first chip. Mabey I'm overlooking some things. I don't see any thing that directly points to what I'm looking for, such as how to adjust for larger injectors, cam size and such. Mabey it isn't that simple (probably not), but I would like to know where I can go to find these things or mabey some advice on understanding the data I'm seeing in the tuner pro window. I feel like I understand the consept of the "flags" but the other stuff baffles me.
I am using the moates flash and burn hardware along with the tuner pro also. My car is bone stock (87 iroc 5.7) with the exception of a slightly larger cam (have the specs. in the car) and accel 24# injectors.

 

Double fire FI @ 40 psi

 

Huh?
I'm new to this stuff so I don't know WTH that means!

 

I have a 90 5.7L TPI. so some of what I know might not be applicable.
I use TunerPro RT and I used to use Moates Flash-n-Burn until I went to a Prominator.

from reading your postings, I didn't see you mention anything about having the right XDF (or ECU) file for TunerPro. That is the template that allows you to decode the values of the binary file that you load into the prom. the XDF file allows you to see exactly where the fuel injector values are, and also the fuel air tables. The template will be specific to your year, vehicle, ECM code.

if you don't have that template, and you can download them for free from numerous places, it'd be impossible at least for me.

 

Todd,

Newbie, but will try to help.
As your running nearly stock setup- TPI with cold start injector, you would be using XDF 32B although you could
also use 6E, upgraded version.
They are similar other than no cold start injector in 6E
but more items to work with.

In both XDFs in Constants/Scalars there is an injector
flow rate item. Set it up for the injector size your running.
(24)
Stock I believe was 22.
Double Fire Injector Constant (24@40psi)

HTH

Later

 

That helps alot. I have been researching and found that the ARAP bin. is best to start with. It is a $6E bin. so like you mentioned I would have to unplug or delete the cold start. The only problem is that every ARAP bin. that I find, I cannot open, keep getting diverted to a Windows link to find a program that opens bin files. I have retreived bins elsewhere I don't see why I need a decoder to open others. I have selected the $6E XDF in Tuner Pro, and I'm still tring to understand all the info and what it means. I'm taking lots of notes on what I can find, but most of what I'm finding is for 730's, I need info and directions for a 165 ECM. Lots of lookin' and cursing.
Thanks for all the help keep it coming.

 

In the stickies under Prom Tuning Guide book and Tuning.

Just scroll down and there is a section on the 165.

You need to know that the ARAP bin is for a Aluminum
headed Vette and has aggresive timing built into it.
Would probably run good but would be pulling timing
because of detonation.

I'd run the stock bin with 32B and learn the program
before moving ahead.

Removing the cold start on your TPI until you learn fueling
and spark might make for a hard to start motor.
Been there, Done that.

HTH

 

When you say double fire injectors at 24lbs./hr.@40psi, should I enter 24 in that area. When I look at it, it has 1.06 or something close to that. Would I be correct by replacing the 1.06 with a 24?

 

I don't know what you mean showing 1.06?

When you double click on the injector item it should
bring up a box with a slider in it, to make constant changes. If using the ARAP bin should show 22.00 or a little higher like 22.16 ect.

Or you could blank it out and type in your choice as
(24.00).

Also when you close out after making changes, will ask you if you want to save changes, click yes.
After I make changes I always open up changed file and check to see if changes were made.
Burn new bin to chip.

Later

 

Ok, now as I try to burn a chip an error stating start address must be divisible by 64, memory range must be divisible by 64 and source memory range should be divisible by 64. What does all this mean? The file is the original bin from the car. I got on Moates website and it said to look under advanced addressing, I looked but couldn't find it. This is reallying giving me fits, one step foreward two steps back.

This SOB! I tried to change the double fire injector to 24lbs./hr. and it will not save. Dang thing keeps reverting back to 0.36! I'm using tuner pro, what the heck am I doing wrong. I feel like climbing up on the roof and firing this ****** off!

 

Take your time, you'll get it. Pay specific attention to your chip addressing like JP said.

 

What is chip addressing? I can't find any info to research it. How do I make it divisible by 64? Why should it be divisible by 64? My chip is 16 bit, do I double stack it?

I'm trying to take my time, but every where I look I can't find the right info.

Also, tuner pro won't save the changes I make to the bin. How do I get it to save?

 

Using the arap bin which is a 6E, you should show the actual injector size in the single and double fire edit boxes. If you are showing .36 and it is in fact a stock bin something is very wrong. You need to find out what it is before doing anything else.
What type of chip are you trying to burn? Stock size is 128, you can't get them anymore, so now we use 256 (128 x 2) and these are now unavailable, up we go to 512 (128 x 4). We also use EEPROM chips which are different than stock, different way to erase them, no little window for the UV light beam to get in. The computer you put that 512 chip in is still the same 128 computer, it wants a 128 chip. So we have to make it think it has a 128 chip by loading the 128 bin into the end of the 512 chip or loading it on 4 times! The address is the spot on the chip to start loading the bin. Check out Moates website and you will find the address of where to start loading depending on what chip you have.
Hope I explained that correctly.

 

Also be aware that the original 128 chip is a read only
chip, with the correct XFD, 32-32B, and can't be written to.

Need the 256 or 512 chips to write to.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Later

 

I have never done it so this maybe BS but my understanding is this, under that little foil tape on the original chips, the tape that has the bin ID written on it, is a small window. This is where you would shine a UV light into to erase the chip. It requires a special box to put the chips in, I have seen them at Fry's for sale, (the light box) that was afew years back, they may have done away with them by now? Those would be the Eproms, and now we have EEProms, extra E means electrically erased or something like that, yes? No?
I am no chip expert by any stretch, just the way I remember it doing some research awhile back.

 

After thinking about your post, I dug up an old 128 bit
chip that had come with my TPIS MiniRam years back
and it does have a sticker on it with their logo and fan
temp number.

Also remember about Uv lite and or leaving it out in the sun for awhile to erase it. They would have had to program it.

Going to read it and save file, then try to erase it and reprogram it.

Just out of curiosity
Also going to see how many changes TPIS made to the
chip for the price they charged for it
Never did run rite with old 355 motor.

Later

 

http://www.moates.net/documentation....entation_id=20
http://www.moates.net/documentation....entation_id=13

Your chip is not 16 bit. Your bin is 16KB. The chip (the 27SF512) is 64KB in size. The start address must be divisible by 64 bytes because that's what the chip requires during its programming cycle. The total size addressed must also be divisible by 64. The first link above has the info you need.

 

In tuner pro it only allows for a 32Kb. chip. How do I double the size? Also, whenever I make changes to the bin, tuner pro won't save them. Is there some place I can go to find the definitions for some of the terms used in tuner pro such as "check sum, mask ID" ect.? I'm still having problems understanding addressing and where in tuner pro to correct or change it. Please have patience with me, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I'm trying.

 

I might be doing it wrong but, I'm trying to stack bins and tuner pro won't allow it. It says that the file size must match selected bin size. How do I acomplish this?

 

Hey Magnus thanks for clearing that up! Lets see if I can answer the last question on stacking. If you are using the stock 16Kb bin and are trying to load it on a 256 chip (32kb) it needs to load twice. So you see Bin size, Chip size, Block size, in the stacker tool of tuner pro. In your case Bin size 16kb, chip size 32kb, block size 16kb. Then you notice two lines for input of your bin, now you can load the same bin in both lines, or I believe you can load two different 16kb bins, but I think you would need another piece of hardware to to able to use that first bin loaded. I remember some discussion on flipping a switch to change between the two loaded bins.
If you are loading a 512 chip (64kb) that would hold 4 16kb bins. I myself don't do a stack, I just load my bin in the last part of the chip and fill the rest with F (blank) either way works. But you need to know where to start loading the chip (address) to do it, and the TunerPro stacker tool actually tells you.

 

Ok, I've figured out how to stack my bin files. Now it won't let me save the bin, says the checksum needs to be updated. I've looked thru the stickies for info on checksums but failed. What is the checksum and what does it do?