DIY PROM Do It Yourself PROM chip burning help. No PROM begging. No PROMs for sale. No commercial exchange. Not a referral service.

Predictive fueling... useful?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 26, 2009 | 10:42 PM
  #1  
dimented24x7's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Predictive fueling... useful?

I stumbled across a rather odd feature in my PCM. Predictive fueling. Basically, the PCM attempts to predict what the future required mass of fuel for each cylinder will be based on past conditions, such as the previous delivered fuel masses, engine speed, MAP, CTS, etc. Anyone have any experience with something like this? Seems like a neat idea, using a model along with past conditions to predict what the actual fueling will be to compensate for sensor lag and such. But, would it work when using a large cam with overlap? Sort of seems like something that would only work on a stable system like a stock engine. My instinct tells me that with the large cam I have, it will be like trying to predict noise at low engine speeds.
Reply
Old Mar 26, 2009 | 11:45 PM
  #2  
bl85c's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 0
From: right behind you
Car: '85 maro
Engine: In the works...
Transmission: TH700 R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

Hmm, what ecm is this? Got my attention.
Reply
Old Mar 27, 2009 | 11:39 AM
  #3  
JP86SS's Avatar
Supreme Member
20 Year Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,180
Likes: 3
From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

Oh no, Fuzzy Logic!
Could be to cover transitions between MAF and MAP fueling as my first thought.
Or as a second thought, Could be just a hiccup in the code where fueling is concerned and that was the Engineer's way of smoothing the problem over.
Reply
Old Mar 27, 2009 | 08:53 PM
  #4  
dimented24x7's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

This is the 98VCM Rev. A code, used in the 98/99 vortec trucks. Since its the first revision of the code, it does have some errors and coding mistakes. The MAF/MAP is actually done as a blend, based on the engine operating conditions. Basically, the MAP calculates the base fueling, and the MAF is allowed increasing or decreasing authority to 'correct' the airmass calculated by the SD code based on its readings. There is also a dynamic airmass component, which uses the MAP/TPS/MAF to adjust the airmass during transients. All calculations are also done in real time for each cylinder in the firing order, so its not like there is much lag in the system.

With all that in mind, it does make me wonder why they would include something like that. Its especially odd since the predictive algo only uses the finalized cylinder fuel mass. Would seem to make more sense to apply it to the dynamic airmass calculated by the MAF or MAP, rather than the final fueling, which is sort of arbitrary. The other odd thing is that its active all the time. Once the engine has run long enough to stablize, its active, and remains active at all times. OL, CL, PE, etc. I think the thing thats really fuzzy about this logic is the original intent. Maybe its to get that last little bit of control over the AFRs? Guess I'll find out once I disable it and try it out.
Reply
Old Mar 27, 2009 | 09:21 PM
  #5  
alvanwie's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
From: Dyer, In
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 355 Vortec
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

Can not say for sure without looking at the code and seeing how it is used, but on control systems a predictive element is often used as a feedforward signal to reduce system error. eg. In machine tool type motion controls a velocity feedforward signal is often used to reduce following error.
Reply
Old Mar 27, 2009 | 10:07 PM
  #6  
dimented24x7's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

The code is fairly short and self contained, so I attached it.

I looked on the internet, but couldnt find the exact set of governing equations, so Im not sure what method is used. I dont have much experience in this area of control, but it looks sort of generic. Basically it looks like there are multipliers to control how much of the past fueling is fed forward and how much influence all the previous fuel masses can have on the calculation of future masses. One thing that lingers in my mind is that should something like this be disabled? Will the output of the routine still be convergent with a larger cam, or will it just cause a surging idle?
Attached Files
File Type: txt
PredFuel.txt (14.8 KB, 50 views)
Reply
Old Mar 27, 2009 | 10:41 PM
  #7  
alvanwie's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
From: Dyer, In
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: 355 Vortec
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

After just a quick look at this routine, I would think it should not be adversely effected by a large cam. In fact, it may help to stabilize the engine under steady state conditions such as idle due to its filtering effect based on past injector cycles.
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2009 | 12:08 AM
  #8  
bl85c's Avatar
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,574
Likes: 0
From: right behind you
Car: '85 maro
Engine: In the works...
Transmission: TH700 R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

If only I were more familiar with computer language. How is it storing previous values? Just using the last value or is there a running average over time?
Reply
Old Mar 28, 2009 | 01:19 AM
  #9  
dimented24x7's Avatar
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
Re: Predictive fueling... useful?

To conserve processing power, its sort of a quick and dirty running average. As the weighting multiplier (which determines the influence of previous fueling) is 'increased', the stored average of the fraction of cylinder masses fed in grows to be a very large value, which means that individual changes in fueling from cylinder to cylinder have less and less of an effect on the average value as a whole.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
OUTATIME GTA
Northern California
120
May 13, 2005 11:40 PM
TBI92Camaro
Theoretical and Street Racing
8
Mar 13, 2005 06:10 PM
ChrisFormula355
Theoretical and Street Racing
8
Sep 10, 2004 10:41 AM
White91GTA
Organized Drag Racing and Autocross
12
Apr 17, 2004 04:07 PM
BlownBird
Organized Drag Racing and Autocross
11
Oct 24, 2003 09:30 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:53 PM.