well i woke up this morning and it was cool out for the first time in ages, and when i say cool, im not talking about a whole lot here as im in florida. i fire up my truck and the wide band worked for a bit then just dipped down to 7.4 and its just pretty much stuck there, got the truck to operating temp, put the hammer down and got some hot egts going to heat it all up, nothing. itl read a little something on the decel if i get into it hard, but for a second only, then its right back to 7.4. i don't understand it? i put a brand new 02 senser in, moved the bung back and added an extendo bung, and the lc-1 is only a few months old. it was all working 100% flawlessly ever since the extendo bung and new 02 untill this morning.

what do you guys think? bad ground maybe, defective lc-1? i dont know why this thing gives me so much trouble.

 

it didnt error out or anything?


as i understand it. the lc1 should error out before it gives you a wrong a/f. so maybe the cal was lost.


some kinda spike on start up messing with the cal?



anyways, i'm in fl too. this little cold snap has been much needed. but back to 90s in the next few days.

 

yea i was pretty happy to wake up to a cool morning and not be soaked to my underwear in sweat by 10:00. and no, it never threw an error code, which really surprised me, it just sat there at 7.4. i let it sit and started it up after about 20 minutes and it worked perfect again. im just about to head out there and start it up this morning to see if its going to do the same thing.

 

There is a process to restart the process much like a new install. It involves disconnecting the LM1 from the sensor at the connection. My connection was handy at distributor maybe not handy for you. See owners manual. That may help or may not.

Do not turn controller on till engine starts and do so immediately when engine starts. I had all sorts of isssues with mine till I found the sweet sport then all was well.

 

the controller is on with key power, it shuts off when i crank and starts back up once the motor starts. i think i know the procedure your talkign about, i performed it a million times today, not on the one in my truck tho. iv got a spare one that burned on my header, i spliced it all back together and put an old 02 on it worked. i was using it on my buddys truck because he wanted it for some tuning and i thought it wold be cool to get a spare one working to keep in the toolbox, that lasted for 5 minutes then it threw code 2(sensor not plugged in) and i tried several different old sensors and checked over all my connections, just couldnt get it to work again... oh well.

so i guess ill do the heater calibration if it gives me trouble again(as if it were the first time starting it up), all i did with it when i put the new sensor in was the free air calibration. after reading the manual today i can see why it would give me trouble because the free air calibration is not what calibrates the lc1 to a new sensor.

 

well its been about a month and a half since i got the wideband working great and just yesterday out of nowhere, it gives out again. all it does is throw code 8, i tried to do the full recalibration, didnt help. iv been through 3 sensors now in less then a year, this is insane. i refuse to purchase another unit, they need to give me one for free at this point. iv got it way back in the exhaust system, extendo bung. theres no way im exceeding 900 degrees at the bung.

i need to figure out a way to ditch this junk. is there another company out there? can you tune equally as good off of an egt guage? i just cant afford a new $80 sensor every couple months.

 

Did you contact Innovate on this issue? I believe I am on my third sensor. Lost the first two first tuning season. then after permanent rewire of my startup prcedure and moving it back from header flange to ext pipe connection area about 14 inches further back and adding extendo it is now on I bet three complete seasons of use..

 

iv contacted moates before, he just told me i can have the lc1 warrantied but i probably need a new sensor. i need to call innovate. iv got mine about2 and a half feet back from the header with about 1" worth of extendo bung(home made). im as far back as i can go without going past the cutouts. this problem occured a few days after i welded on the exhaust system, does the heat from welding near it damage the sensor maybe?

it basically went out like this, 3 days ago, i put the hammer down and ran her wide open through the gears, max egts basically. and then i let off the gas and the o-meter just maxes out and reads '2.00, no code tho. then it went away and reads again. as the days went on it would jump and stick at '2.2 if i gave it any boost(heat up the egts) still no code tho. eventually it just started throwing the code 8 and now it just doesnt work at all hardly. it worked on my way home from work today because i babied it hard. its like its tolerance for egts has diminished to nothing, i throw some egts at it and it throws code 8. im possitive 1 pound of boost with an afr of 13:1 at 1700rpm is not throwing more then 1100*, but thats about all it takes to f it up... on a good day. on a bad day it will warm up, read '2.00 for a moment, then throw code 8.

it just really sucks because this is my main sensor, the ecm relies on its simulated narrow bang signal. it idles like crap without it... which leaves me scratching my head since iv got the "no blm at idle" flag checked...

one last thought, im running dual 2.25" exhaust on a motor that should produce well over 500hp. i think this restrictive exhaust is just going to run hopelessly too hot.

 

I understand methanol intent is to cool but if it is combustible would that not increase the heat level at the sensor?

I am aware the sensor is sensitive to excessive heat. when I spoke to the person at the tech line at innovate he more or less said the unit is generally used temporarily in vehicle and not "recommended" as a permanent install. I have the LM1 with controller box with optional input for sensors. That comment did not make fell feel warm/fuzzy. He said the OEM's spend 100's of hours finding a sweet spot for that sensor and they do monitor ext gas during their trials. All he could offer is to keep moving the sensor till you have better results. that is when I purched bung and moved it back 14 inches. I only had one available optional place as the tunnel provided little room. Maybe I lucked out.

 

so basically, i just spent 80 bucks and thats garbage now. iv gota spend another $80 and thatl last another month and a half. iv got no more places to put it, its as far back as possible. im going to have to sell the lc1m. there's gota be another way. cant i tune with an egt guage?

maybe ill have to redo the exhaust system to acomodate. ill have to start over, run 2.5" strait back and run the cutouts right in front of the mufflers. ill probably run them true duals dumped before the gas tank under the cab, no bends, just 5ft of strait pipe, cutout, muffler, turn down. that will alow my sensor to be way back from the colector, the larger diameter piping should also cool beter.

this just ran through my head but, could i run the sensor in the middle of the h pipe? it cant get very hot there at all, its like a giant extendo bung. will it get a good reading... this could be the ticket.

 

no thoughts on running it in the h-pipe. im really interested in trying this out...

 

No room for me in my "U" pipe ! But I agree with you. It may be cooler.

How about this? Buy the adapter to place at tailpipe? Only issue and maybe no issue is reversion? I would think less for you. Tip of muff to header is short on a Vette. My my cam may pull in fresh from rear of muffs. Same can be said from intake side. All you need to do is remove when not using and yes that is a pain for some of us. After all dyno do it and is accurrate I assume. Ask Innovate for a recommendation(jessie?).

That being said if you want to roll dice once more I would place it 16 inches behind header flange and at 900 oclock to 300 oclock for sure.

I ran EGT on my race sled for about 4 years. Yes it works well and sensors will last. You must reference the top of piston or the plug color. piston wash is more reliable. this is to calibrate EGT. also there is a "bell curve". will read same if filthy rich or very lean. so you need to be reasonably close.

edit: I bought sensors from rock auto.

 

I'm still left wondering if its something else beside over heating. have you tryed rewiring the thing?(I know everyone says its wired right, but its a nightmare to wire one of these things right, if anyone even knows what right is)
as I've said before, I once installed a lc1 that would error out about 90% of the time when the electric fans clicked on, if the car was warm and idling low. if the rpm was higher, it would hardly ever happen. I don't remember 100% what code it threw out, but I wanna say it was error 8. which would never lead to checking for 2 fans turning on instead of one at a time.

I fixed it by using the 2nd fan output so both didn't click on at once. I mean the car didn't seem to care about the fans at all, you could hardly tell even a dim in the headlights. it looks the same now when just one fan turns on, which is why I chased it for almost a month til I found it. now the only time I ever get an error is if its warmed up and reading a/f and I do a quick restart. it doesn't like that. I think it doesn't like how rich my hot cranking is when its already hot, plus I don't have power durning cranking.
give it a few secs between starts and it always works now, and this is a daily driver with the same sensor since new. over a year ago.

 

im convinced its an overheat issue once again because this happened about 2 days after i ran the truck wide open for more then a few seconds. i dont really run the truck wide open often, its never necessary to need that much power really, it will get me into enough trouble at 3/4 throttle. i think that i just thought it was all working good becasue i didnt really realize that iv never truly tested it out.

theres a new sensor on ebay for 57 bucks shipped right now. ill order it up and hold onto it untill i completely redo my entire exhaut system. the way the exhaust is currently set up simply wont work. im as far back as i can go the way its set up. what ill do is make the h pipe about 3-4ft behind the collectors, ill put the sensor about 6" down the h pipe on the driver side and use a longer extendo bung. ill try and get some copper to make a heat sinc as well. this will leave me with just enough room to cram the cutouts and mufflers directly behind the h pipe and room for nothing more then a turn down before the gas tank interferes on the driver side. itl be a little louder, but thats ok.

 

i have the same problem also. am now on my second sensor. and still does it.

if you get on innovate's forums, there are all kinds of posts where the lc-1 gets stuck, usually at a very lean ratio, but mine is stuck at a rich ratio like yours.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/forums/...t-going-6.html
above shows links to where i found a solution on the innovate tech bord, on the first post.

but when i called innovate to have them walk me through reprogramming the firm ware, they say it would ruin the unit. and i have not found a solution yet either

 

There have been some issues with boost and killing the sensor. I killed several before redoing the wiring and paying special attention to the grounds. Also any voltage spikes (ie 2 fans turning on) will kill the sensor. After redoing ALL the grounds in the car, They last a season now. Very sensitive to poor grounds in the car and spikes.

 

i dont have any voltage spikes or anything like that, and all the ground wires for the wideband are all soldered together and on the same bolt on the dash frame.

im about finished with my new exhaust system, these mufflers are huge, i only managed to get the senor an extra 4" back for a total of 20" from the collector. but, iv got a longer extendo bung(and i used a larger diameter pipe for the extendo bung) and the 3" exhaust should run ALOT cooler then 2.25" with a million non mandrel bends all the way to the back of the truck. the exhaust should flow like a mother, and looks rediculouse lol. illl grab some pics tommorw, maybe a vid. the whole exhaust is as simple as this, 21" of 3" pipe, 3" cutout, reducer cone to 5" inlet/outlet flowmaster race mufflers, reducer cone to 4" turn down tips, and an h pipe somewhere in between. you can just barely see the monster tips hanging below the frame angled 45 degrees out. hopefully this will keep the 02 sensor cooler.

im starting to think i ruined these sensors from welding around the sensor. both of my last 2 sensors went a day or 2 after i tried welding the cutouts which were like a half inch away form the 02 sensor. how hot does a weld get the metel? more then 900 degrees is all it takes to ruin a sensor, no?

 

Welding is electrical. There is your voltage spike.

 

if your making a good hot bead of weld its 2000-3000 degrees

 

its a hard spot to weld, i was laying down bird turd welds. still, probably whats cooking the sensors.

 

i hope that fixes it, defintaly save all your sensors because buying a new sensor did not fix it for me, and i have made no welds

 

if the exhaust is really small maybe its back pressure. I'm think I read it doesn't like pressure as well as to mich heat.

 

the system definilty had back pressure, i mean, it was like miles of 2.25" pipe with 100s of nonm mandrel bends, and the small flow masters become restrictive on higher horsepower setups, they dont flow well with the small 4" case.im convinced that i was getting excessive blow by from all the back pressure, since iv been running open headers this last week my rear main seal doesn't leak like it used to, no oil running down the breathers, and the truck runs alot better... LOTS more power, even much more then when i used to run open cut outs after about 20" of 2.25" pipe. that old exhaust system was causing me alot of problems, it looked and sounded great, but its for the greater good that its gone now.

every time iv replaced the sensor, it was always the fix. the lc-1 and all the associated wiring is fine

no pics of new or old exhaust et, still no time, still running open headers. i do have a video of some open header fun tho. the neighbors stoped by to complain about 5 minutes after the video was taken lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8SNIrEO43s itl just cook those tires through second gear like its nobodys business, no brakes, nothing but power. first burn out sicne i put the new 14 bolt rear end in, same deal as the old 10 bolt, 4.56, detroit. less wheel hop since i fixed the pinion angle. i guess its common practice on lifted trucks to jack up the pinion angle so that the drive shaft doesnt go low enough to hit the frame cross member(am i the only guy hotrodding a lifted truck? lol). a welder and a die grinder fixed the corssmember right up.

 

definatly update if you fixed your issue, i just filled out a return merchandise application for innovate and waiting for them to respond.

 

autozone sells the same sensor as the innovate lm1 and it comes with a 1 year warranty, also you have to be carefull amount mounting position, something to do with moisture
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...randName=Bosch

 

the new exhaust is about finished, just need to move the 02 bung(it hits the transfer case), and put an h-pipe on it. still need to order a new 02 sensor. things are kind og on hold right now because i blew up my transmission and im in the middle of swaping an nv4500 in it right now. heres how it looks.

it sounds pretty good, i drove it one time with it, gave it a bit of gas and my trans was left with nothing but reverse. it had to go right under an overpass so there was no were to pull over, had to push the turd quite a way lol.

ill keep the thread updated once i get it all fixed up.

 

i ended up putting my sensor farther back. before it was at the end of the header, and now it is about 6 in past the tail of the transmission. seemed to fix my overheating problem