tuner pro has not be friendly to me, so I don't data log, i hear a few knocks now and again, so after 3-5 months of tune X, I decided to mess with it again, not my favorite past time, I'm stuck since no one tunes these things and if they do they gouge.

wideband has been acceptable, i run open loop, the last time I enabled closed, the car freaked out and ran like a pinto on 1 cylinder. so i quit that for the time being, time being forever? who knows I pasted CA smog with it open loop, so it could be forever.

I know you say see the knocks and dependent on the pulls, I should pinpoint the spot and back off the same as the auto retard.

remember I can't datalog,I know I can fix it but, this is another form of disability.I have to work with.

I read you say hook up a vacuum gauge, to check timing, my last adjustment, I changed 28 for idle down to around 20 and it helped the park to neutral from killing the motor, plus I added back +50rpm for p and n., I guess that's what it's for.


42.89 42.89 42.89 40.78 35.86 33.40 30.23 29.88 25.66 25.66 25.66 25.66
42.89 42.89 42.89 40.78 35.86 35.16 30.94 28.83 25.66 25.66 25.66 25.66
42.89 42.89 42.89 40.78 35.86 34.81 31.99 28.48 24.96 24.96 24.96 24.96
42.89 42.89 42.89 40.78 35.86 34.81 31.99 28.48 24.61 22.85 22.85 22.85
42.89 42.89 42.89 41.84 37.62 36.91 33.75 29.88 26.02 22.85 22.85 22.85
43.95 43.95 43.95 42.89 42.89 39.73 35.86 33.05 29.88 26.02 22.85 20.04
43.95 43.95 43.95 42.89 42.89 41.84 39.73 35.86 31.99 28.13 23.91 22.15
43.95 43.95 43.95 42.89 42.89 41.84 39.73 37.97 33.05 27.07 23.91 22.15
41.48 41.48 41.48 41.13 41.13 38.67 37.62 35.86 34.10 27.07 23.91 22.15
40.43 40.43 40.43 40.43 40.43 38.67 35.86 34.81 34.10 27.07 22.85 20.04
36.56 36.56 36.56 36.56 35.51 34.81 32.34 30.94 29.88 27.07 22.15 17.93
29.88 29.88 29.88 29.88 29.53 29.53 29.88 29.88 29.53 23.91 20.04 17.93
22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.15 22.85 23.91 24.96 26.02 22.15 17.93 17.93
20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 20.04 21.09 22.15 20.04 17.93 17.93
18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 17.93 17.93 17.93 17.93
18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98
18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98

overall i took 7* off everything, remember I't ran OK and didn't ping too much

smoothed the trasistion from idle to 1600 spaced it out more evenly.

and the car is a different animal, idles with a throatier pop, (hear more cam) starts easier, feels like every gear is lower, or rather I changed the rear gear bigger. it's just better,

in short the car likes it.

My question is if you care to comment, it I thought I had all the power off the table, but there was power left on the table, how do I know I have not left any on the table with this last tune-up?

should I just live with no knowing?

if I use the vacume gunge trick, what numbers should be good?

TIA

 

Do you still have PE mode spark advance?

Can you verify that what you have in the table matches what the motor is seeing at the balancer (assuming balancer shows correct numbers?)

Its good to give the car what it likes best and what feels good but I think you need to get that datalogging feature up and running. Just to double check things.

Makes sense with less idle timing it will sound more cammed up... more timing tends to raise idle speed and usually smooths out the idle, making it sound less choppy. Provided the fueling is good for those conditions, it should become most stable but not always the case. Your motor seems to be happy around 20 deg so leave it there for now.

Startup spark can cause starting problems. High timing is harder to start so thats why I used a retard box on my Mallory ignition to pull timing on startup. Have you played around much with startup fueling tables like Crank Fuel pulsewidth multiplier vs reference pulse? and Crank fuel pulsewidth vs coolant temp? Sometimes hard starts can be fueling related as well. Just a suggestion.

A dyno may help. I do believe you can cruise around on a mustang type load bearing dyno and record the low hp/torque values you see for given rpms and throttle opening. MAY beable to change fueling and timing and see what levels give you the most torque for that given throttle opening and rpm.
Speed density cars I believe tune timing until you see the least amount of MAP pressure per a certain rpm/TPS voltage/mph... so basically using a vacuum gauge to record the most vacuum per TPS voltage (Throttle opening) and rpm. I personally havent been there yet with my car but will be trying to tune cruise better next year. I usually just add timing until the ecm pulls timing as long as my target air fuel is where I want it. But thats an experiment in itself. 14.7 isnt always best so you have to try richer and leaner at certain spots.
Dyno will definately help with WOT however. Dial in fuel and then play with timing to see what gives max HP and Torque.

 

Do you still have PE mode spark advance?

No I zero’d it as per your suggestion last time

Can you verify that what you have in the table matches what the motor is seeing at the balancer (assuming balancer shows correct numbers?)
I don’t know what the balancer is, but when I make the changes, I feel” the difference.

Its good to give the car what it likes best and what feels good but I think you need to get that datalogging feature up and running. Just to double check things.


I can see what is going on with the engine, I just can’t record and playback, the last time I had it hooked up, things were, what I would call it running well.

Makes sense with less idle timing it will sound more cammed up... more timing tends to raise idle speed and usually smooths out the idle, making it sound less choppy.

I like the deeper, later ignition, kinda like spark in the headers…

Provided the fueling is good for those conditions, it should become most stable but not always the case. Your motor seems to be happy around 20 deg so leave it there for now.
It was stable at 28 and 20 just different.

Startup spark can cause starting problems. High timing is harder to start so thats why I used a retard box on my Mallory ignition to pull timing on startup. Have you played around much with startup fueling tables like Crank Fuel pulsewidth multiplier vs reference pulse? and Crank fuel pulsewidth vs coolant temp? Sometimes hard starts can be fueling related as well. Just a suggestion.

I value your suggestions, I never had a hard start situation, I didn’t make myself clear, it would like to stall when I shift into drive, I had taken out the default +50rpm at P and N, thinking, what is this for?, now I figure like a clutched car the rev’s has to go up to move the car forward, between the SA( extreme) and no added r’s the combination would overwhelm the idle and kill the motor,
Delaying the spark 10 points and adding the +50 rpm created a more forward friendly environment. No more stalling for now, not the big issue, but just one of them that added up to “ man this car is a hassle to drive”.


Quote:
My question is if you care to comment, it I thought I had all the power off the table, but there was power left on the table, how do I know I have not left any on the table with this last tune-up?
A dyno may help. I do believe you can cruise around on a mustang type load bearing dyno and record the low hp/torque values you see for given rpms and throttle opening. MAY beable to change fueling and timing and see what levels give you the most torque for that given throttle opening and rpm.
Speed density cars I believe tune timing until you see the least amount of MAP pressure per a certain rpm/TPS voltage/mph... so basically using a vacuum gauge to record the most vacuum per TPS voltage (Throttle opening) and rpm. I personally havent been there yet with my car but will be trying to tune cruise better next year. I usually just add timing until the ecm pulls timing as long as my target air fuel is where I want it. But thats an experiment in itself. 14.7 isnt always best so you have to try richer and leaner at certain spots.
My AF ratio, in all drive modes including WOT appears to be in their respective sweet spots, suffice to say, I have nothing further to touch in the MAFs, curiously MAF 4,5,6, is bone stock.
I did bring PE in at 35% TPS in all RPM’s; that little “ adjustment” is dispensing fuel almost perfectly in all modes.I am pleased with this, as per my wideband.

Dyno will definately help with WOT however. Dial in fuel and then play with timing to see what gives max HP and Torque.
The power I feel is definitely torque, at granny throttle it wants to pull, and the gears have long legs.
I may attempt to back some more out, to test this theory, the table you gave me of yours, seemed muddy in my car hence I started to play with the ARAP…

Again thanks for your input.

 

Thats good to hear, give the car what it wants. If my suggestions had too much timing in it or too little, then run what feels best for now. ARAP is a good bin to start with. the fueling is pretty good. Aggressive on timing for a starter bin so I always liked adjusting it alittle lower to make sure there were no problems but if its working for you so far, keep at it.