Hi,

This is my first post! (I looked for an introduction thread, didn't see one)

I live in central IL, and have an 84 'vette that I am always working on this site has been awesome for finding details I could not ever think about finding anywhere else!

I have been lurking on this site for yrs, and find this to be a very knowledgeable and friendly site. I DID try searching for my answer, but I really couldn't find anything that was 1-3 years old (half way current) that applied to my questions.

So......

I am wanting to get into tuning my ECM very badly, (ready to drop the hammer!) and know I little about what I need to do, but am a little hesitant to dive into it without some knowledgeable guys (that's you guys (and gals)) telling me that I am on the right track. (All my friends think I am crazy spending money on a tbi setup )

Here is my 1984 corvette 350 setup;
-Stock bottom end motor (60,000 miles)
-Brodix IK180cc Heads (64cc chambers)
-Felpro 0.015 head gaskets (super thin!!)
-Isky 270/280 cam (Valve Lift (.465 .485) .050 Duration (221 232) LC 112)
--Ported out Crossfire intake
--adjustable Fuel Pressure regulator (set at 16 psi)
--tpi fuel pump
--Headman Ceramic Headers (1 5/8 primaries)

I already Have a HAM Board, and can get a 7747 ECM from the junk yard at anytime. What my main question is, which I do not see a lot of people talking about, is the most accurate way to tune the computer (within reason, meaning I am not going to take it and get it dyno'ed) , and how you guys are doing it?

Thanks in advance for all your help, and do not mean to be one of those annoying people that log in, ask their question, and you never see them again. I will be around (for better or worse!!!)

 

I would opt for a 8746 so you can add IAT sensor now or later date. There are unused pins that can be used for IAT in your stock harness. Otherwise the 7747 will work. I started with HAM and 7747. I needed my 7747 to be resocketed to use a 24 pin devise(eprom). It has been a while so my memoryis fuzzy on that. Stickies above may elaborate. Check out CraigMoates dsite on AutoProm and Ostrich as well are flashable proms. You will need a datalogging program. Most use TunerProRT. And a ALDL cable.

Or order the EBL and disregard above. See dynamicefi.com for info on EBL.

By all means read the stickies above as well as "free tune" sticky on TBI board.

Ask specific questions when you post.

 

What is an eprom device? why re-socket for 24 pin?

So you would recommend an Ostrich to start tuning? Is it half way straight forward once I get started?

Thanks for the insight!

 

As I said my 7747 needed a new socket installed(soldered) to accept the chip which is 24 pins. Thant was 9 years ago. More on this in stickies above in hardware. Go to Moates site and he sells reprogramable "flash" chips. I believe they still sit in socket. I needed to erase the chips I used back then. You dont want to deal with erasing. I am now EBL. Consider EBL. Makes it all so much easier.

 

for my 7747 i needed the G2 adapter and socket booster for it to connect to my Ostrich 2.0. not sure about the autoprom though.

http://www.moates.net/socket-booster....html?cPath=26


http://www.moates.net/g2-memory-adap....html?cPath=64

 

What is easier about the EBL? It looks like a nice setup if you buy the wide band o2 sensor. I see some guys running both, an EBL and an Ostrich. What is the advantage in this?

Thanks,
Daniel

 

Easier?
1. Expanded tables(better tune than stock).
2. Flash based. No adapters or need to plug into eprom socket(ostrich). Ecm is back in place in dash. No battery needed to hold memory.
3. The biggy is Whats Up. A datalogging program that creates a corrected .bin that you can flash in after session.
4. Supports boost and or N20. I run N20.
5. SUPPORT

Lot of readin on their site. Take an indepth look if serious about spending the $$$ to purchase.

Some of the other ECUs support WB. EBL allows use of WB to learn in VE tables.

 

One concern I had was whether the Ostrich has to be plugged in all the time. With the Ostrich, you can burn the chip when you have it the way you want it, and put the chip in the ecm, and be "done" with the programming, right? I realize that you might not ever be done, as you can fine tune indefinitely. Main concern, you do not have to leave the Ostrich plugged in 24-7, do you?

I really would not be so torn between the two if the EBL + WB O2 sensor wasn't so pricey! I am sure it is worth it, I just cant afford to pay it right at the moment, BUT, I would love to get starting into programming.

 

It sounds like you may need to read the stickies on Tuning 101. Just MO.
Get an EBL Flash. Forget the 7747. V E R Y SS LL OO WWwwww. I tuned a Xfire with Comp Cams roller setup. 108LSA, 218/218@.050"
.528/.528 and 53d overlap. That's a roller. For flat
tapper, add 10d.

 

IMO,
You already have a HAM board.

When you start comparing the price of EBL flash vs cost of 7747, ostrich,chips and the labor to install then trying to learn to tune. EBL ends up cheaper and a beginner can easily start tuning. Just install your HAM in the dynamicefi's ecm and your done. Plug and play

You'll also have more options out there in the long run with the EBL. Heck I've now converted my 84 vette from crossfire to multi port injection, and there are no changes to the orginal harness.

 

Thanks for all the recommendations and advice guys.......looks like I will be looking (even more) into the EBL Flash!

 

I am pretty sure the Ostrich needs to be plugged in all the time. It is used in place of the chip. When you like the tune you developed you will need to burn a chip and replace the OS with the chip. Does not Moates explain this on his site? Some will leave the OS plugged in indefinately. I believe it uses a lithium battery to hold memory. If battery fails? Most likely goes limp mode off calpack. Big advantate of Os is it can be used on multiple vehicles or sold. Now if you want to go inexpensive look at AutoProm at Moates. I would call Craig Moates to get more info on his hardware options.

 

The way I understood it was you leave it plugged in, once it runs good, you burn the chip, than you can put the chip in your ecm, and you do not need the ostrich plugged in anymore. Otherwise you really couldn't use it on other vehicles. Does this sound right?

I actually dropped the hammer and ordered an EBL flash with the wide band O2 sensor. Don't get me wrong, the ostrich seems like a great tool to have available, and may be something I buy down the road. But the EBL will be here Thursday, and I am really looking forward to getting everything up and going. When I built my exhaust last year I put an O2 bung on both sides of the exhaust just for this reason, so it shouldn't be too bad of an install. Hardest decision ever it seemed like, but the wb o2 sensor and the HUD really pushed me over to the EBL. And I only really only have this one car that I for see wanting to tune. (EBL is pretty permanent) Thanks for helping me make a decision, and now I will be in the EBL threads, learning as much as I can!

 

As an FYI, I had my OS 1.0 plugged in constantly for 3 or 4 years in my Xfire.
I now have the OS 2.0 plugged into my ZR-1 with no hiccups. However, once I do WOT tuning in a month or so, I will at the very least carry around a chip on a Moates daughter board. Likely, i will just run the chip with the OS 2.0 as the spare. ts just that with the OS 2.0, its too damn easy to just decide you want to try something else.

 

DSP: PM me. I have an idea I want to share with you.

 

So, I have been tuning a little bit, and am getting it to run better and better, but I am looking at my MAP sensor readout and when I floor it, the map sensor actually reads out a very high number. In the SA main, it looks like it reduces timing when you are at high map numbers. This seems backwards to me. Can I get some input on what is going on here? At Idle, my Map sensor reads around 60, cruising at 60, it reads around 45, and at WOT it reads around 95. Thanks for any help!

 

That is correct. MAP is Manifold Absolute Pressure, at key-on, engine-off it will measure the current barometric pressure. Which will vary according to weather and elevation.

A higher load requires less spark advance.

RBob.

 

ok, thank you! I always thought the more advance (up to around 32-36 degrees) at higher rpm, that it would give you additional hp. Am I thinking totally backwards here? So at 5-6 Grand, you only want 18-22 degrees of advance on a typical mildly built motor?

Thanks for all the help

 

That is correct. Keep in mind at 100++ MPH there is a lot of drag loading the motor. Less timing required.

I wish I knew what the timing curve looks like on my snowmobile. Black box. I am certain a lot of timing is pulled on a WOT run at 100 MPH due to snow drag and parasitic drag(track/gearbox). Too lean or too much timing it will burn down. timing(snowmobiles) is only added by a "key" for 1000ft drag.

 

This is dependent upon a number of things. Mostly chamber design, compression ratio versus fuel octane, and camshaft specifications.

If you are still running the stock heads it could probably use additional timing at WOT. As the stock heads are of a regular design chamber (not swirl or fast burn).

Note that there is also PE SA that is added.

RBob.

 

Where in Central IL?

I'm in Decatur, and am in the infancy stages of tuning a car with an EBL Flash installed.

After briefly playing with chip burning and an Ostrich 1.0 (the 1.0 was a total POS, can't be said enough), the EBL is night-and-day better.

My car is kinda like a 1/2 of yours.
.030 over Iron Duke 4 cylinder
TBI Injected, one 2" throttle bore
Discontinued, old-school Holley TBI intake
Bigger intake valves (1.88 in place of the old 1.72)
Comp Cams Hydraulic roller cam, short on duration but stout on lift.

 

How did you do the tpi fuel pump upgrade

 

Mine was done by a mechanic but I recall the TPI needs the harness to be changed as the original(1984) did not plug in. I believe they are available.

 

I'm running a LT-1 pump on my 84 along with HSR intake. The pump fits in easily and there were no changes made to the orginal harness

 

do you have a link to the fuel pump you used or a part number?

 

Rob, what do I need to make the EBL flash work in a 1983 crossfire 305 or possibly later upgrade to a 350 crossfire v8?

 

Need some way to convert the stock ECM harness connectors (edge card) to the newer pin style connectors. Here are three methods:

1) Replace the EFI harness with one from a TBI car/truck with the proper connectors.

2) Cut off the current ECM harness connectors and splice on the pin style connectors.

3) Have a HAM board installed into the EBL ECM. See DCS at http://www.crossfireinjection.net for the HAM board & install.

RBob.

 

Can you guys install the ham board on to the carputer or do I have to?

 

Either you or DCS needs to do the HAM install.

RBob.

 

That is not what you guys said in group purchase thread

 

Not sure what you are basing that statement on. No one from Dynamic EFI posted in either EBL group purchase thread. And I don't see any reference to a HAM board in either thread.

RBob.

 

what does the crossfire ebl flash computer do and what are its included features?

 

There isn't a Crossfire specific EBL Flash ECM. Which is why the ECM harness connectors are different.

What the EBL Flash will do is to replace the stock ECM to run the engine and TCC lockup.

Best to go to our web site for a better idea of the features it offers:

www.dynamicefi.com/EBL_Flash.php

RBob.

 

Go to the intial release EBL thread here and read up.