Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Anyone ever have a programmer randomly go out on you? I noticed this last night and today again...my burn 2 programmer from moates will not burn chips and sometimes wont erase.

Sometimes I erase chip and says erase succeeded. Then I do a blank check, sometimes its blank sometimes its not blank and no matter how many times i do it, it doesnt erase.

When it does erase, I load file to buffer and then hit program chip. It says program sucess or whatever, and then i do a Verify chip with buffer and it returns a verification failure, does not match.

I was trying several tries in a row and even restarted tunerpro and computer 2 times and same result.

I got out my old Burn1 programmer and plugged it in. Works fine. Erases and burns and verification successful.

I guess my burn2 is toast? What would cause that? Been using it for years now never had an issue til 2 days ago and today

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I have just had a issue with my burn 2 reading 27c256 1 out of 4 reads will be correct. I think I was saar that said he had a issue with his reading and he found some cracked solder joints on the board. I looked at mine it looks fine so I just us a pp2 to do reads on older uv eproms.

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

I ran into some chips that were stamped SST27st512 but were in fact re-branded Winbond chips. They would not erase with a burn2 but would program and most times verify. Using them on the Wilhelm GQ-4x worked just fine.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

What software are you guys using?

I have found that the last few builds of Tuner Pro don't seem to function 100% correctly with my BURN2, using the stand alone Flash 'N' Burn utility works flawlessly, however.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'm using moates sst chips that ive burned hundreds of times before no issue. Tuned 2 other cars same chips no problems.
Now seem to have issue. Using old tunerpro version 4 i had back in like 2006-2007 when i first started tuning. Now on my burn1 programmer no issues at all tonight

utilityguy2

iTrader: (1)

The only problems I ever had with the Burn 2 was the bad chips. I've burned well over 300 on it. So you could have a bad one. Maybe a USB issue?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Dirt in the ZIF will also create problems, BTDT. Open the ZIF, hold the programmer upside down and carefully brush out the socket.

Sometimes need to use a contact cleaner on them. This is from oily build up from us R&R'ing chips.

RBob.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Ive burned probably several hundred tunes across the 2 chips i have. Chips work great in the burn1 programmer. Did 4 burns last night car worked great. Burn2 must be dirty damaged or something.

Thanks RBob i will inspect it. To be honest that burner has taken a beating in that turbo car. It slides around on the floor under heavy accel or hard braking. It may have been damaged but i will look.

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Orr, I had the same problem.....I had to always do a blank check because it wasn't consistently erasing my chips.

I just cleared and re-entered the chip address info, used a new chip and it worked again. I don't know which one fixed the problem......but it started working again.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Cool thanks for the info. I even tried a old 29c256 or whatever it was and the erase procedure stopped halfway thru and the burn2 light stayed on until i unplugged it. Will give it another shot after inspecting it and cleaning if necessary and try your address input stuff

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

You ever thought of doing something similar to this....keeps your burner from moving around and gives you good access to your prom. I do so many burns I needed to be able to reach the prom without pulling the ECM down every time.

I just keep my burner plugged in all the time and mounted it in the ECM housing. The burner runs to a 3 in 1 usb hub that’s behind my dash, and my laptop plugs into the female end of the hub (see 2nd pic) instead of the ALDL port. I know it doesn’t look stock, but it’s just a thought.

Yikes......I really need some new carpet. lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats pretty cool but i have my ecm laying on the floor and along side it my Mallory hyfire vi ignition box haha. Plan was to tune it and when done, tuck it back up. But when is a tune ever reallly done?

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Okay gotcha.....and yeah, I was supposed to have been done tuning last year. But I've done 8 burns this week already!

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

This is why I like using an Ostrich 2.0, the ECM can be mounted, and tucked away, plug in the USB cable, and change tunes quickly, and even while the engine is running, saves LOTS of time.

You can use a socket extender, for a way of mounting the ECM, but still have access to the EPROM for tuning. This is what I do in a friend's car, the Socket Extender has been in his car for over a year now. When I tune it, I just unplug the socket extender, and plug in an Ostrich 2.0, tune, then program the EEPROM with the bin.

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Your right....had a I done my research the Ostrich 2.0 would have been the way to go. Seeing that I already bought the Burn2, this worked best for me.

Honestly......I really don't see when I'd need to change the program while the engine is running. I mean maybe a few times....but in general, I always watch my data logs via my ADX dashboard, then make my adjustments based on that info. However I'm only tuning in open loop.....its pretty easy.

Just curious........when do you guys make adjustments on the fly?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I dont. I do a quick log targeting the area i want to see, say medium rpm and 3/4 throttle. I do a quick drive, take mental note on the air fuel and feel of the car, drive home and export log. Sit down for few min reviewing the log and modify bin as needed. Reburn then go drive again. Short trips but never on the fly

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Same here. It takes me a little while to make my adjustments....can't really see doing that while the car is running. Maybe if it was just spark or something simple.

It's too hot here (102) to tune while sitting in the car. I go inside with a nice cold glass of Tea and take my time.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah i bet its hot down there! I left that place for cooler temps and i still complain when its 85 here.

Only quick changes id do would be spark at certain points or a quick global change. Say i had retard at 2300 rpm and low 68 kpa map. I'd do a quick change or if i was doing back to back wot pulls i may add a deg of spark at top to see.
Dont think id need the fuel curve tweaked on the fly. I really like to take my time doing fuel curves.

Does ostrich work with code $59 now?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The ostrich has always worked with $59.

I tune most often while the engine is running. If I notice something isn't quite to my liking, I can pull over, make the change, upload the change, or entire bin, and drive away. Saves the time of needing to shut down the engine, swap the EEPROM to the programmer, program then swap the EEPROM back, restart. You may not think that it takes long, but after using an emulator, you'll wonder why you ever tuned without one.

I also find that tuning idle is easiest with an emulator, because you can see the changes immediatly.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Oh ok i thought there was issues using 59 with ostrich but been long time since i read into it.

Idle tuning would be one thing to try on the fly. Never thought of that.

I like constantly shutting down engine to test my cold and hot startup fueling across wide range of temps sometimes my initial cold starts are fine but wouldnt hot restart so had to really test it across all temp ranges to see

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Okay, that makes sense. Seeing that I built my car for maximum drag strip performance I think most of my tuning is done with the engine off and viewing the log on my last 1/4 mile run. I guess I can't knock it, seeing that I've never owned one.

As Orr mentioned.....hot/cold restarts were really a lot of my tuning, especially due to the large cam. The more I think about it......that was probably 70% of my prom burns.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I was hitting boost last night on my second and third burn. Took me weeks to get idle, starting and some free revs done . Once you get it starting well and idling well and free reving somewhat well you can tapper fuel curve out to get a rough map to drive on. Maf is a good bit easier imo but most tuning on that was idle and startup as well for my 383

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That's cool. The '7165 ECMs have the room to do this as the PCB is shorter then the case. The other ECMs ('7730, '7749, etc.) don't have that extra room.

As for on-the-fly tuning, I've done it for idle stuff. I have a friend with a shop that likes to do it on the dyno. As he can dial in the fuel as the car is sitting there are various loads & RPM.

For me, like others here state, need to look things over before changing stuff. OTOH, I've also driven around doing a VE Learn, pull into a parking lot and flash in the new tune/calibration. The engine will either shut off on it's own (EBL P4 or SFI-6 with no MEMCAL for limp), or runs in limp mode (EBL Flash with a modified CALPAK), which goes right back to running.

Only takes a few seconds to flash in the calibration. Then start a new data log, VE Learn if wanted, and turn the key.

RBob.

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, it was an inexpensive way to do changes and saved me the hassle of digging under the dash. When I'm done tuning I can just tuck the ECM - if I want to. It works for me.

I can't lie.....it would be kinda cool to make some changes on the fly. But for right now.........I seem to be getting by with my Burn2.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

My burner had a small rock stuck in it preventing one of the pins from contacting. Made some funny problems burning chips.

I usually take my car out for an hour or more at a time to get a tune hammered out for some new mods. It takes quite a while to get all areas of the VE table, but the EBL makes it a TON easier than swapping chips all the time. I re-flash VE learns and AE Adjustments at stop signs. All country roads with no traffic makes that possible!

At the drag strip, I log one pass, then fake the WOT AFR in to make it stick right at 12.7. Quick and dirty, but effective for those day to day atmospheric changes.

88gunmetalgta

iTrader: (1)

Also, with the EBL, it's nice to be able to flash half a dozen different bins to the chip in the event of me not having a clue how big of an effect a given change will have. Bin 1 has 2 degrees extra spark, bank 2 has 4, and bank 3 has 6. Just pick the one that works best!

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

You can still shut down the engine to test hot restarts, using an Ostrich, it just cuts down the time needed between, when using an emulator. Manual labour is also reduced. lol

It took me about 45 minutes to an hour to get my engine to start and idle, then free rev, then about 4 minutes to get it to actually drive, using an emulator. This was in an application that probably no one had thought of using $59 with, a Nissan 2.8L I6. I know it would have taken me hours, if not days to get the same results, using the chip 'n' burn method. I spent about an hour that night driving around doing an initial tune, since I had to drive the car over an hour each way the next day for a Z car show.

Like I said before, once you use an emulator, even to just make uploading tunes easier, you'll wonder why you ever did it the chip 'n' burn method. I have a few Ostriches, one stays in my car, and sometimes, I will use one of my spares to upload a tune to if I'm reviewing a log inside, or noticed something I wanted to change on a drive, flash it to the Ostrich, then swap the Ostriches. Most of the time though, I will just plug into the Ostrich in the car and upload to it.

gta324

The USB thing was cool Something to think about.....

I Use a Ostrich alot, maybe not always on the fly but I dont think I have burned a EEPROM for my car since 2002?(except one or 2 for backups) I used to have Xtronics romulator before Craig made one.

Idle tuning goes very quick on the fly, but I also tune cruise on the fly, drive at certain speed for a while, check the AFR, then quickly pull over and adjust ve in that area and drive again, goes quick to get a feeling for what AFR/SA the car needs. All is done in Open loop WOT I usually log and and checks the logs before changes.........

heat seeker

iTrader: (5)

Hmmmmmm....great, way to go fellas. Now I want an Ostrich. lol

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well i went back to my burn1 last month ago and it worked for awhile but have been down for last month and few weeks so never got to test it. Now i cant burn chips with either burner. Not sure if both are bad or if my software is bad or chip is bad. Dont wanna order new burner if it aint gonna work. Oh well. Stuck at track with a car needing more timing but wont get it

EagleMark

As much as you have used the Burn 2 and now have issues with Burn 1, could it be a worn out USB port on laptop? Or USB cable?

For you guys emulating... if you really want to speed things up roughing in a tune, get a driver!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I have 4 ports and all dont work.

Get this! I come home after the rain out and review my last logs. Decided to make a change. Tried to burn again and It failed. Took another old 29c256 chip i had and it said it burned fine and verified with buffer. So tried it in car, didnt work. This is all with the burn1. So i tried the 29sf512 chips or whatever they are and this time it worked! Tried it in car and it worked.

This morning i burned another chip. Said it worked but didnt in car. Reburned and it verified with buffer fine. This time it worked.

Saar

i wonder if some of your PROMs are just wearing out...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

May be the case. I will order new chips tomorrow

They probably have thousands of burns on them

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

are you having this problem at the track? I find that if my laptop battery isn't 80%+ it does not erase ad burn correctly. I plug the computer into the wall when I start having issues burning proms and *poof* problem solved

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Battery was near full at track but after 2 hr it was lower than half and at home i had it plugged in when it finally worked but in the past it burned fine without being plugged in but that is a very interesting observation! I will keep an eye on that and test that further

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well I can rule the power of the laptop out. Didnt work this time around.

Also reinstalled drivers for usb devices and reinstalled flash n burn but no dice. Oh well. Try new chips. Then maybe new computer? IDK I dont wanna buy a new burner