Hello, after reading this:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...gn-iii-pw.html

I now believe I need to change my pulse width vs. battery voltage tables. I am preparing a bin to be loaded for the first time with my new ostrich.

My car now has an 88 TPI 305 with the stock 165 ECM running a stock $32B bin, I found a $6E bin for an 89 305 with a manual trans and 3.45's that I am preparing to load. I am completely new to tuning with the exception of many hours of reading and a small amount of data logging. I have done the basics like the fan input and vats flags.

My question is: Should I make adjustments for the bosch 3 19# injectors that I installed as indicated in the above thread?

These are the injectors I installed:

http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...fuel-injector/

Thank You

I found a thread on the gearhead efi forum for setting up the battery voltage vs pulse width table: hope it helps
http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...ncy-Chart-Link

Has anybody all ready done this in $6E with bosch 3 19# injectors and know approximately what the values should be?
Also, should there be a certain PW that should be a target number?
Maybe I will just see where the number is before I disconnect the alternator and use this as a target number?
Still have some research to do.

SouthBay should have been able to provide you the voltage data. Of course, you'd still have to fit a function to the points and solve it for the actual voltage values in the table in TunerPro.

I'm assuming you plugged in values you found somewhere else? that should work ok as plenty of other people are running bosch III's without even touching those tables.

I have not done anything yet to the bin for the new injectors, I put them in two summers ago and just got my ostrich in the mail the other day. I have not been able to find values to plug in for the 19# injectors, all I have found is information on the 22# ones for a 350 and I assumed they would be different than the 19# ones for a 305. However, after reading the chart in the link it only has one set of values for all bosch injectors, if this is the case, then I should be able to plug in the same numbers for the 22# injectors that I found in a thread? right?

I would get ahold of South Bay and have them get you the data.

I emailed southbay for the injecter specs yesterday and am waiting for a response. I am not sure about the function stuff, I am trying to remember math class..... it was a long time ago. " Of course, you'd still have to fit a function to the points and solve it for the actual voltage values in the table in TunerPro." Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Easiest way is to put the data into excel and make a chart with it. Put voltage on the x axis and mSec on Y. Add a linear trendline to the chart. When you set up the trendline, check "display formula" and it will show an equation on the chart. Plug the voltages in the tunerpro table into the equation and it will spit out the pw offset in mSec. I think the table is in uSec tho, so multiply by 1000.

Thank you very much! You saved me much time searching and reading for hours!!!!!!

I first emailed Southbay on 2/18/14, I keep asking through email for the information and they provided me with the part number and that's it. The part number they provided is Bosch 280155771 (19 lb. with their special tip to make them fit better), other than that, I can't seem to get any other information out of them. I emailed them because that's where I bought them. Kind of disappointed. Any ideas where I could find the info with this part number? I goggled it without any luck. Thanks

I'd plug in the values Rbob found here:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...862-post5.html

They are for the FMC Bosch III's, but should be similar if not identical.

Thank you! I am just getting to the point where the weather is breaking, put the car on the road Wednesday!!!! This is my first summer with the Ostrich and Data logger so I am pretty excited to dive in. Thank you very much for the information. I will plug in the values, then I will work on the MAF Tables. I am very rich part throttle, but when I floor it (think it is going into acceleration mode) the BLMs come together 128/128, so its not that far off. Thanks again!

Its been a while since I've played with a MAF car but IIRC BLM's are locked in PE. I think I set PE %TPS at something extreme like 80% for dialing in the MAF tables. O2 millivolts is all you can go off of at WOT.

Thank you for all of the very helpful information. I will try locking out PE while I am setting up the tables. This question is a little off topic for this thread, but my o2 readings at times after the car is fully warmed up will drop to zero, like when coasting to a stop at the end of the get-off ramp from the highway. The signal is generally very erratic and jumps all over the place, all of the time. Is this normal?

No, and your getting way ahead of yourself. You'll get different perspectives from members who are running different setups, but you can't use that as the basis for your tuning. Install the injectors, datalog, and see what your O2's are telling you. Your ECM will correct for the difference in fuel, and whatever that difference is, THAT is what you will tune out (or in) in your fueling...

Yes. During part throttle acceleration, your O2's will swing (jumping) averaging out your fueling needs. When you let go of the gas (decel), the injectors will stop pulsing (which is what your seeing when you coast and the O2's drop to zero), but they will then start pulsing again when you either accelerate again, or when a particular RPM is met as it concinues dropping, which is normally 2000-RPM or slightly under...

That makes sense, with out writing a book about the details, the engine is slightly modified and it did not make sense to have a perfect 128/128 all of a sudden. Thank you for all of your help!

Street Lethal, thank you for the explanation of the O2 readings, as far as tuning preferences, it seems like the overall concesnsus from what I can find is to start at the fuel, specifically the MAF tables, not the scalors. Then move to the timing tables, somehow make a smooth curve out of the mess that GM provides. Does this sound right? On a side note, the acceleration seems stepped, I surmise that this is because of the stepped timing table and that smoothing this table out will result in smoother acceleration.

88GunmetalTA Thank you for your help and advice there is so much to learn in regards to tuning Thanks!

Those 700's will have the same specs as any other 700's regardless of which "rebuilder" cleans them. The only possible difference is if somebody does a crappy job and doesnt get it all the cleaned or the injector is bad. All they do is ultrasonic clean them, flush them out and test them. Then install new o-rings, filters and pintel caps (~$20.00 parts). No magic, no internal changes. Then slap on their brand label.
and the offset will be the same regardless.

Thank you, I was not aware of the similarities between the different injectors.

Sorry for not getting back sooner. You can try this. Hope it helps it's from bosch
http://southbayfi.com/2014/04/08/19l...ltage-offsets/

If the link doesn't work go to my blog at www.southbayfi.com

Thank You!

Well, I would like to let everybody know how I have made out. So far I started with a stock 89 bin, fed emissions and standard trans, 3.45 gears. ANYX9375.bin.

Round 1: I loaded an LT1 timing table that I found that was converted to MAP according to its author. I am going to revisit the stock table when I have more time, I just figured out the smoothing function in tunerpro, the main reason I did not use the stock table is because of the huge jumps, the LT1 seems to make much smoother transitions. I also inputed the voltage offsets that RBob found in
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/di...gn-iii-pw.html
After receiving the information from Frank at SouthBay, I realized it was the same information that RBob used. I then realized that you have to move the decimal to the right three places to get the time in the proper units from the chart in the referenced thread.
Result: after getting the proper latency figures into the ECM and using the LT1 timing table (I increased the whole table by a half a degree at a time until I started picking up knocks, then backed it off) the car really came alive and ran better that it ever has.

Round 2: The throttle follower was really annoying me, I disabled it and it seemed the BLMs became a little more stable, could be my imagination because it does not make sense to me. It made the car drive like a modern car instead of a tractor with a governor not letting the RPMs go below 1100 or so while in motion. Really like this change.

Round 3: I tried playing with the MAF tables and scalars but I could never find anything that I liked, everything I did seemed to take away performance. Then I received an email from Frank at Southbay, I remember reading years ago, but never made the connection, the injectors I bought are actually 22 lb. injectors and my injector constants were set and 19.50. When I changed this (set the injector constants to 21.99 in tunerpro), the car again acted like a different car, it has never made so much power. It is running better than it ever has. I have tried playing with MAF tables and constants but it seems like no matter what I do, when I test it against the unmodified version, the original has better performance. I feel like I am missing something, like I do not understand something, or something else is going on to mess with my data. The car is always rich 120ish when not under a load and lean 132+ when under a load. The odd part is, I could be on the highway in sixth gear cruising at about 1600-1800 rpms, the BLMs are showing 120-122, then with the ever so slightest increase int eh throttle, the BLMs instantly jump to 132-135. I can slightly move the peddle up and down and watch the numbers jump with nothing in between, like the car is switching modes and pulling from completely different programs, its either very rich or very lean. I thought at first it could be the fuel pressure regulator (adjustable, came with the motor and it is old) not keeping up with the demand, I took that apart to clean it and it looked good, spotless, the fuel pressure was a little high so I set it back to 43.5 with vacuum unhooked. I have the AIR disabled (I think) I set the scalar "If temp is < X, then divert air" as high as it would go, if my logic is correct, when ever the temp is lower than 150 something degrees C, which is all the time, air would be diverted to the atmosphere and would not mess with my oxygen readings. I do not think the car is switching modes because I know I am not pressing the peddle enough to put the car into acceleration enrichment mode. So, I still have to re-search to do. The part that is boggling me is the inconsistency of the data.

Results: The car is for the first time running amazing (if you do not look at the BLMs) In power enrichment mode the oxygen sensor reads from 892 to 901 ish mv, from what I read this is good.

Moral of the story: For anybody tuning with $6E, I have had good luck so far and seen dramatic improvements from changing the timing table (and adjusting it using the advance it until it knocks then retard it a little method), putting the proper latency times,

6.4 3078.51247
8.0 1853.40073
9.6 1307.66195
12.8 765.37403
14.4 609.06068
15.0 552.48610

disabling the throttle follower, and setting the injector constant to 21.99 to match the injectors from SouthBay.

Still a long way to go, but I feel like for the first time the engine actually acts like it should and pulls very strong. Drive-ability wise, its there, the car feels like I want it too, still want to work on a couple other little things like cold idle etc. and get the BLMs where they should be, but having the proper information in the ECM for the parts (injector latency times, injector size) along with timing table adjustments and disabling the throttle follower has made a huge difference. I like it.

If this worked right, I have uploaded the bin I used, the LT1 timing table converted to MAF, and the injector information I have compiled.

For anybody on the fence about weather or not to get into the computer tuning, like I was for a while, even on a slightly modified engine, it made a world of difference, it made everything that I modified on the engine pay for itself. I would have never realized the results without the tuning stuff. Just changing from $32B to $6E made a huge difference drive ability wise. Thank you to everybody who has responded to my questions!!!

The jumps in the value of the BLM is likely due to switching which cell is in use. There are 16 cells in the $32 & $6E code, which are divided up via RPM and air flow.

RBob.

Will these offset tables apply to other Bosch gen 3 injectors? I'm running a set of the 28lb LS1 injectors.

From what I gather they would be the same if they were considered a 700 series injector.

That makes perfect sense, the computer is using different data for its equations, what cells are you referring to? Are you referring to making a history table with RPM and air flow?

The BLM (block learn multiplier) consists of the 16 cells. These are the long term fuel trim values.

RBob.

How do I access this data? Can I access this data? I am not sure how to interpret your feedback. Do you mean that because the fuel trim jumps when it changes cells, or mathematical equations, that I need to start fine tuning things like the MAF tables so that when the computer pulls from the different cells the information that goes into those cells, (like MAF table values) will tighten the BLM values?

The current cell in use and the value of that cell is in the data stream (@8192).

The BLM value can jump due to a different learned in value of adjacent cells.

A BLM of 128 is neither removing or adding fuel. Less then 128 is removing fuel, greater then 128 is adding fuel.

RBob.

Are the BLM cells from the data stream something that can be visualized and used as feedback in Tunerpro? Or is the tune is so far out that the information in the BLM cells is spread way out giving me this big jumping effect and that this jumping effect will become less and less as the tune gets closer.