What is the goal
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
Car: 90 iroc z
Engine: 358 tpi
Transmission: Auto
What is the goal
I'm new to this. For my own understanding, what is the goal your looking for when tuning yourself? I know "make the car run right", I mean as far as data is concerned what are the data numbers suppose to look like
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16,754
Likes: 996
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: What is the goal
You need to look at your short and long term fueling. You can also play with timing and watch your knock counts.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/faq/BLMINT.html
The stock o2 is a narrow band, you can see the air fuel ratio and dial in the tune better with a wideband gauge.
You can also tie in the wb signal so it can be viewed in datalogging.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/faq/BLMINT.html
The stock o2 is a narrow band, you can see the air fuel ratio and dial in the tune better with a wideband gauge.
You can also tie in the wb signal so it can be viewed in datalogging.
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,255
Likes: 427
From: Portland, OR
Car: 86 Imponte Ruiner 450GT, 91 Formula
Engine: 350 Vortec, FIRST TPI, 325 RWHP
Transmission: 700R4 3000 stall.
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Torsen 3.70
Re: What is the goal
It really depends on what area of the tune you are working on. Not just books have been written on this subject - it's more like entire sections of the library......
In general though, the goal is to give the engine what it wants - be that more/less fuel, or more/less timing - for stable idle, proper smooth progression, and maximum performance. In general that's the goal. And for OEM's the goal is also emissions compliance though that is usually low on the list for DIY tuners unless they live in CA.
The GENERAL rules are thus:
14.7 AFR in the idle/cruise areas (closed loop) while maintaining BLM/INT of ~128 (or short/long term of 0%) and a stable idle that is commensurate with the camshaft.
AE and PE to give proper acceleration
WOT of around 12.8 for NA applications (open loop PE mode).
Add timing till you either experience detonation or the performance drops off. And then usually back it down a degree or two for safety.
Those 4 sentences are about 0.001% of tuning. But that is the general idea and a better description than "make the car run right". There is much more than any of us could possibly cover on such a broad subject.
I would venture to say that you won't truly understand what tuning is till you start doing it yourself. Go to RBob's site for his Dynamic EFI EBL system and order yourself an EBL setup for your car. Get a wideband and install both. Then start tuning with his system - it does some of the work for you and is easy to use. You will be able to learn by seeing what changes the self-learning algorithms make to your VE maps.
GD
In general though, the goal is to give the engine what it wants - be that more/less fuel, or more/less timing - for stable idle, proper smooth progression, and maximum performance. In general that's the goal. And for OEM's the goal is also emissions compliance though that is usually low on the list for DIY tuners unless they live in CA.
The GENERAL rules are thus:
14.7 AFR in the idle/cruise areas (closed loop) while maintaining BLM/INT of ~128 (or short/long term of 0%) and a stable idle that is commensurate with the camshaft.
AE and PE to give proper acceleration
WOT of around 12.8 for NA applications (open loop PE mode).
Add timing till you either experience detonation or the performance drops off. And then usually back it down a degree or two for safety.
Those 4 sentences are about 0.001% of tuning. But that is the general idea and a better description than "make the car run right". There is much more than any of us could possibly cover on such a broad subject.
I would venture to say that you won't truly understand what tuning is till you start doing it yourself. Go to RBob's site for his Dynamic EFI EBL system and order yourself an EBL setup for your car. Get a wideband and install both. Then start tuning with his system - it does some of the work for you and is easy to use. You will be able to learn by seeing what changes the self-learning algorithms make to your VE maps.
GD
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,626
Likes: 312
Re: What is the goal
+1 on what GD said. I dont have the EBL, but if were to start from scratch I probably would get it. from everything I've heard about it, it sounds like a great tool for those getting started in tuning.
be warned though... once you get started into tuning, it gets addicting! the car is never quite "done"... lol...
be warned though... once you get started into tuning, it gets addicting! the car is never quite "done"... lol...
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,255
Likes: 427
From: Portland, OR
Car: 86 Imponte Ruiner 450GT, 91 Formula
Engine: 350 Vortec, FIRST TPI, 325 RWHP
Transmission: 700R4 3000 stall.
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt Torsen 3.70
Re: What is the goal
You have better. You have an entire forum here to show you. Just do what I said and get an EBL and a wideband and we will be here to show you the way.
GD
GD
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
Car: 90 iroc z
Engine: 358 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Trending Topics
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,895
Likes: 429
From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: What is the goal
Nothing wrong with that. Stock ecus are more than capable for 90% of ppls needs, and burning chips aint terrible
where you located
where you located
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
Car: 90 iroc z
Engine: 358 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Re: What is the goal
I'm in north east pa. I guess I went borderline too big on the cam. I got a start up chip from Scott Hansen and the card idles runs and drives. He warned it would need tuned. I know the motor isn't at it's full potential so I want to try to tune it myself
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,626
Likes: 312
Re: What is the goal
Burning chips these days is the technological equivalent of writing with a stone and chizel...
The way to tune these days with a stock OBDI ECM is to use an emulator (such as the Ostrich II)... tune on the fly while on the road. Simply pull over, make a change (while the engine is still running), upload the modified bin, and then keep driving...
When you're satisfied with the tune, simply burn a chip and then close up the ECM.
The way to tune these days with a stock OBDI ECM is to use an emulator (such as the Ostrich II)... tune on the fly while on the road. Simply pull over, make a change (while the engine is still running), upload the modified bin, and then keep driving...
When you're satisfied with the tune, simply burn a chip and then close up the ECM.
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 88
Likes: 1
Car: 90 iroc z
Engine: 358 tpi
Transmission: Auto
Re: What is the goal
Burning chips these days is the technological equivalent of writing with a stone and chizel...
The way to tune these days with a stock OBDI ECM is to use an emulator (such as the Ostrich II)... tune on the fly while on the road. Simply pull over, make a change (while the engine is still running), upload the modified bin, and then keep driving...
When you're satisfied with the tune, simply burn a chip and then close up the ECM.
The way to tune these days with a stock OBDI ECM is to use an emulator (such as the Ostrich II)... tune on the fly while on the road. Simply pull over, make a change (while the engine is still running), upload the modified bin, and then keep driving...
When you're satisfied with the tune, simply burn a chip and then close up the ECM.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,895
Likes: 429
From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: What is the goal
Most of the time after you drive and do a log you will spend several min reviewing the data and then minutes making bin changes so leaving your car running to tune on the fly is mute point but do it however you feel necessary. We all have our ways
im southwest pa so good ways from you but if you ever need it tuned bring it out.
im southwest pa so good ways from you but if you ever need it tuned bring it out.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,626
Likes: 312
Re: What is the goal
Most of the time after you drive and do a log you will spend several min reviewing the data and then minutes making bin changes so leaving your car running to tune on the fly is mute point but do it however you feel necessary. We all have our ways
im southwest pa so good ways from you but if you ever need it tuned bring it out.
im southwest pa so good ways from you but if you ever need it tuned bring it out.
it was pretty much all by feel and the emulator made it very convenient.
other things like power enrich and VE... yeah youd be analyzing data at home and making bin changes.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Denis.V
Tech / General Engine
16
Oct 4, 2002 08:07 PM