Guys ,
I just completed a 1k round trip. (101 north and back).
On the way home after stopping at a gas station the car stalled and died. I put it to neutral and it started right back.
I reached home and it did the same trick on me while i was backing into the garage.

2 days later ( i was driving my other stick car). I tried to start it and it just gives a ticking sound and nothing. The SES light, brakes lights, seatbelt light, radio, door open beep, all come on but it wont crank, just a loud click sound.
I looked under the hood for ground connections, battery voltage with my multimeter and saw a slightly cracked wire by the AC evaporator which attaches to some sort of plug. It's a thin wire (beige coloured).
Anyhow after making sure the wire is not completely broken and looking around under the hood for about 10-15 minutes, i try again and it starts right up.

I took it to work and it was around 9 in the evening when i started to leave for home.

Exact same symptons. Car won't start; i lift the hood, fish around the wires, check the battery volts, check ground connections, go back into the car, give it a try and voila it starts...

If it won't start then there is a loud clicking noise from near the transmission area (starter assembly).

I also went under the engine block couple a of months back and found a loose connection under the passenger side of the block. It looks like a connector (but it's literally falling to pieces)barely hanging on to it's original location.
Could this be another source of failing ground...
or could it be the VATS security system....or the transmission neutral safety switch..(i can't get the dang console off)...
or the ignition cylinder..it wiggles though...

 

bump..anyone..
i am really apprehensive taking the car out now..it's starting is very sporadic...
and i am running out of ideas as what t check or replace...
could the clicking sound be the starter solenoid going south..
but then why would die suddenly when on the move...it sets me to think it's a ground issue...

 

Sounds like you really need some help so I'm bumping this up for you. I had a somewhat similar issue with my car on the ride home from buying it. My issue was caused by the ignigtion module. Wish I could help more.

 

Check to see where the clicking is coming from. If its coming from the starter (passenger side below back of engine) then that sound would be your starter solenoid trying to engage the starter.

If that where the clicking is I don't think its your VATS - because if it were your VATS the starter solenoid wouldn't make any sound at all. Is your "SECURITY" light on the dash staying on?

My guess would be that its your starter, starter solenoid, or cables.

Another test might be to wiggle the cables when you experience the no start condition.

 

is there any corrosion under your battery terminals? your wiggleing them might have loosened it up enough to let you start it.

 

IrocZed, have you made any headway on this problem?

It almost sounds like you have two symptoms. The stalling problem then the cranking problem. I think the first problem to deal with is the cranking problem, since it could be causing the the first symptom.

When you said it made a clicking sound do mean that it makes a loud click once for each start attempt or it clicks multiple times quickly?

When I first read your message, I was thinking it clicked once. Now in re-reading it, it appears you meant multiple clicks for each start.

From my experience, the repeating clicking sound is power related. The voltage at the starter is going so low that the solenoid is disengaging. When the load is removed, the voltage goes up and it reengages.

- The battery might not be able to support the load. (Low charge, old, bad)
- The cables/wiring might not be able to supply the current required. (Loose or bad)
- The starter could be drawing too much juice because the windings are shorting.
- Your other cranking system components Neutral Safety Switch, VATS starter relay, ignition switch could also be weak or have bad wires. I'd consider these lower on the list though.

You might want to check your cranking voltage. How old is your battery? I would make sure the battery is good before digging to deep. An old or weak battery can provide 12+ volts just like a new one, it just won't have the power to back it up.

 

Hi,
update on my issue. I get a single click for each start attempt.
I got some cables to measure the voltage to my starter 'B' and'S' terminal. I also disconnected and retraced all wires going to the starter.

After reconnecting the battery but all starter wires loose, the voltage measured is:
1.) battery positive and purple S wire = 0volts.
2.) battery positive and two red wires from the ignition firewall area = 0v.
3.) battery positive and red wire from rear of alternator = 11.32-11.57 volts but less than 12 volts.

I hooked all wires to the starter as they were originally. I put a fresh wire from battery positive to starter, cleaned all contacts to the starter terminals, cleaned all ground terminals.

I cranked the engine and as before one click per start attempt and the voltage measured at solenoid 'S' terminal was 0.32 - 0 volts.

Voltage measured at 'B' terminal was 11.32 - 11.57 volts. I am thinking this is the reason, the starter motor is not turning. Does it need atleast 12 volts and if yes what could be causing the loss of the balance voltage.

Also what if I disconnected the wire from the rear of the alternator to the 'B' terminal.

If a short the 'B' terminal and 'S' terminal should the starter get full power and crank over.


forgot to add: My battery is new (about 2 months old, Exide 660 A)
The voltage is 12.37 - 12.67 volts. when not starting.
Thanks Sean

 

IrocZed:

Sounds like you are still working this one! I hate when my car is stuck like that!!!

OK, only one click per start. That helps. Also, knowing that your battery is new helps. So, the multiple clicking poor power theory is mostly gone.

OK, so when you turn the key to START power is applied to the solenoid start lead (the thin wire connection). The solenoid is really like a big mechanical switch that provides power to the starter motor. The fact that it is not clicking multiple times sort of indicates to me that you have good juice!

I just checked my manual, it doesn't list out "B", "S" terminals. I'm assuming the "S" terminal is the one with the thin guage wire. The "B" is the big guage red wire going to the battery.

I have to recommend against shorting the leads with a screw driver for safety reasons! (I can't say I haven't done it though.) POSITIVELY make sure the car is not in gear if you do - by jumpering these leads you are bypassing all the safety stuff!! If in gear the car could lurch forward off your stands etc....

A better solution is to get a remote starter switch, it should be about $10-$15, it comes with big alligator clips and you clip one to each of these terminals. It has a long wire and a pistol grip with a trigger. You'll be able to connect up the wires and pull the trigger from the side of the car. They come in handy sometimes.

The answer to your question, if you short the Positive Power Lead (B) to Solenoid Start Lead (S) the solenoid should engage and the engine should crank. If it doesn't its the starter, +/- cables, or battery (which you said is new).

If you do short those terminals, also make sure you don't connect the power lead to ground. Be prepared for a big spark and a loud noise. The first time you do it, your likely to get a little startled. Thats fine as long as you don't get startled into doing something like whack your head or short the B lead to ground!!!

"11.32 - 11.57 volts" If that was the votage going to the starter positive lead while the key is in "START", then I think that is enough voltage.

Where was this measurement taken across? B Terminal to starter chassis? Or to Battery Negative? If you went to Battery Negative (at the battery) then the ground leads are still suspect.

So.....

1) Try the remote starter thing. If that triggers the starter into cranking then your starter is OK. If not go to 2.

2.) Verify the No-Crank condition. Then hit the body of the starter (not solenoid) with something like a hammer or a pipe. Not "HULK" strength just a good couple of wraps with a medium hammer should do it. Then try to start it again. If that fixes it your starter is going. The extreme version of this, is to have someone cranking it while you are wrapping it. Usually one wrap works though. If not go to 3.

3.) Measure cranking voltage from Starter Positive lead to Starter Case (GND) (Is that what you did??). While you are there make sure your wires are not loose under there. You'll need the remote starter for this or some help. If its over about 10.5 or so, I think its the starter!

The reason for the voltage drop from 12V is because the starter puts a load on the battery. Its normal for this to happen.

You can save time or money, pick none! :-)

If your starter fails all these its way past time to pull that starter.

Good luck!!!

- joe

 

Hi Joe,
Thanks so much for your input. I think I got the test conditions you have put. I will try napa, autozone or pepboys for the remote start switch.

I forgot to mention that the 11.57 volts measured was from starter positive 'B' lead to ground.

I also measured the Solenoid start 'S' lead to ground and it measured 0 volts at cranking. Is this normal.

And to confirm not to ground the positive 'B' terminal.

PS: Joe i have not mentioned it so far, but i have already pulled the starter out the first time before doing any electrical test.
Took it to Kragen and they bench tested it. It works good. I could not confirm the current draw during test. So i put it back since according to them it was good.

Do you think under no load conditions the starter motor will spin (i.e as in bench test )but if it's weak it won't spin under load.

Because this sporadic starting issue started to go bad gradually

 

Hi,
I finally got the crank to move with the starter. It was not ground, not +ve battery cable, not starter motor, not the solenoid or the solenoid terminals.

It was the flexplate. One of the flexplate to torque converter bolts had loosened itself, throwing the flexplate out of alignment and the bolt itself was opposing the rotational movement of the flexplate because it would come in contact with the housing. After i tightened i tried the remote switch to see if the starter motor will rotate it.

And it did! Thanks a ton to everyone for you help and special THANKS to you Joe for your analysis and proposed solutions. The remote starter switch was the best suggestion you gave.

After hooking it upto the respective terminals and removing the inspection cover i was able to see the starter engage and move the flexplate literally at the touch of a button.

PS: I was goint to bolt everything up and take her out for a run when i noticed that the flexplate has cracked at two places as i could see from the holes around the loosened bolt to the inner hole.
But that is another story.
Here is a rough sketch of the flexplate, and the cracks it has.

Thanks Sean

 

Good work! Sounds like you figured it out! I'm glad the remote starter was helpful for you.

Now, it's too bad it wasn't the starter! Yikes! Have you ever removed your transmission before?

- joe

 

Hi Joe,
No, but i am really learning a lot working on the Camaro. I have been awfully busy at work and at the other board RBL39 did mention that the tranny needs to be moved backward about 1-1/2" only to get to the flexplate.

So i will attempt this over the weekend. I will post an update on how it goes.

Regards Sean

 

Good luck to you, hope it all works out.