Every once and a while when I try to start the car turning the key to start the engine nothing will happen. There is still power to everything when the key is in accessory, but nothing will happen when the key is turned to ignition and the starter will never crank. Also when the key is turned the temp guage maxes out until the key is released from ignition. After waiting 20 minutes the car will usually start, but sometimes the wait is longer. The starter and battery were just replaced so it is not them, is it an electrical problem from the ignition cylinder?

 

Do you have a pellet in the key and does the security light come on and stay on until you release the key, come on and go out after 2 seconds, or just not come on at all?

 

The key does have the little resister chip in it, and i dont remember a light reading "security" however the service engine light and infl rest lights come on

 

The two lights that you have mentioned are normal when you turn the key. The security light is located to the left of the service engine light and should come on for two seconds and go out if the VATS system is working as advertised. From what you have described, your ignition lock cylinder is starting to go bad. Go to this link and read through it tilll you come to a test for checking the lock cylinder and try that.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...7&goto=newpost

Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Remove your park/neutral switch, open it up and clean the traces and contactors with 0000 steel wool, apply a generous amount of dieletric grease to the traces and contactors (gob it up good), reassemble the switch and put it back in.
After years and years of use the P/N switch traces and contacts build up a varnish that when hot, will insulate the two from each other.

 

If you're going to go to all that trouble cleaning the old one, why not just buy a new one?

 

$30 vs free
Dunno bout you but free always wins with me.

 

How do I open the column up to remove the cylinder, does it require pulling the steering wheel?

 

If you decide to change the lock cylinder, you will have to pull the air bag (if installed) and steering wheel. Did you do the test in that I link I gave you?

 

Im on vacation and away from the car at the moment, but im going to do the check when i get back this saturday.

 

It took a while before that car would fail to start again, but I did the ohms test you gave me and it was the same resistance as the key. To be sure I did the VATS bypess trick with my spare key when the car was working and I was able to start it, but it failed to do so after it would not start normally. Also a new development is that I was going into my driveway and the car just shut off. No warning from the engine it was running fine then it was just off, so it still seems to be an electrical problem somewhere. Got any more ideas?

 

Have you checked all the wires down at the starter solenoid. Question here, did this problem start before or after you replaced the starter and battery?

 

All the connectins are good and wires looked alright. The problem started months before the battery and starter were replaced, but back then it would only happen once every month or so. Now it does it weekly or daily, and of course when i need the car the most.

 

A big thing im confused about is that after a wait the car always starts again. The old starter was weak and eventually just died, and I replaced it with an oem replacement for a 305 engine. The engine in now has a 10.1 compression ratio. Could the starter be cause of the problem?

 

Okay, here is another question that I haven't seen anything mentioned about here. Does this happen when you first try to start the car for the day, after it's been driven and shut down, or it does it randomly?

 

Id say 80-85% of the time it is after ive been driving around. It is rare that it happens first thing in the morning. Yes come to think of it very rare.

 

Have you looked at the starter enable relay in the left kick panel? Try checking the power at the two yellow wires with the key in the on position.

 

Very interesting, Trickster does my 1988 IROC also have a Starter enable rely? It does not have Vats.

Thanks,

 

Since you have mentioned that your car does not have VATS, it is unlikely that you would have one. The only way that you would have one is if it was a late production model or what was considered a high value model. You can tell by looking under the left kick panel and it will look like this.

 

o.k. when you say kick panel you mean that area on the left side of the car under the dash correct? Not somewhere in the back of the car?

Also, Thanks for the pic

 

Yep!!!!!!!!!, it is the panel with the hood release cable.

 

Okay Trickster, riddle me this...


What is the significance of the "Security" light staying on when you turn the key and get no start vs. it not coming on at all when you turn the key and get no start.

In my GTA the "security" light would come on and stay on. Now it does not come on at all. I have gotten the car to start though. And, it sometimes does not start in the morning (didn't this morning). I have found that if I jar the car somehow (slam a door shut or open and drop the hood) that it sometimes starts after that. I also did read in the owner's manual that if the car does not start when turning the key and the "security" light is on that the key is not activiating whatever it needs to to start the car. In this case the owners manual recommends waiting 5 minutes and then attempting to start the car again. It also mentions that if the car does not start the second time that there may be a problem with the ignition lock cylinder. Since the light would initially stay on with the key turned to the start position I thought from reading this post that the ILC was likely the problem. However, now that the light does not come on at all I am wondering if that means there is another problem to investigate.

Thanks for the input.

Peace

 

Check the bulb, since it was on all the time it may have burned out.
The next time it won't start try hitting the starter with a hammer a couple of times and then try starting it. If it starts then the starter probably has a dead spot in it and needs to be replaced.

 

The significance between the two is that if the light does not come on and the car does not start. There usually is a problem with the wiring from the lock cylinder to the VATS control module under the dash. If the light comes on and stays on until you release the key and the car doesn't start. It usually means that the contacts on the key or lock cylinder are dirty or worn and the VATS control module doesn't recognize the resistance value in the key or the module is going bad. As the owners manual has pointed out, you have to wait about 5 minutes before trying again. That is because the VATS control module disables the system for that period of time and no attempts to start the car should be made until the module resets itself. If any attempts are made to start the car before that time period is up, it just starts the cycle over again and prolongs the time until you can start the car. Do you have an aftermarket alarm in your car or has there been one in it. These sometimes cause problems with the VATS system.

 

Trickster,

I have not installed anything aftermarket in this car (I have only had it for ~ 1 month). I do not know if the previous owner installed anything in the car. Judging by the fact the previous owner was an older gentleman (late 60's) and that the car still has the original sterio in it (which is on "loc") I am reluctant to believe he had anything aftermarket done to it.

So I think that what I will do for the weekend (and I am going to go in this order mainly because I did not get off work in time to get to the Pontiac parts dept and they are closed for the weekend) is take apart the lock cylinder and do the test that you referred RallySportin' to and see how well Morley's idea works b-4 spending money on a new Lock Cylinder. Normally I would just go ahead and get the new Lock Cylinder, but before I spend $30 + & 54 for a new key (actually over $100 because I really need to have two new keys) I want to make sure it is the lock cylinder and that it really is worth the cashola to buy a new one.

 

Can you tell me where the small yellow and green wires go to and come from?
Thanx

 

Yep, the small yellow wire comes from the ignition switch and goes to the starter enable relay. The small green wire goes from the starter enable relay and goes to the VATS control module pin "A3". BTW, both yellow wires come from the ignition switch and the large green wire goes to pin "F" of the P/N switch (automatic) or the clutch safety switch (manual).