84LsxZ28

Last friday I bought a 1984 High Output Z28 camaro which I intended to be a project car for awhile. Now this thing is pretty cool, the previous owner, who I did not buy this from did a bit to this car; some good, and a lot of bad. There is a good exhaust setup, some air shocks, new shocks and sway bars in the front, etc. The bad is that pretty much none of the electronics in the car work, from what I can tell. Underneath the steering column where the fusebox is, a lot of wires were disconnected, some cut, and hanging connectors. There's no radio and the center console was taken out, and then there are quite a few cut wires where the center console should be. Then out in the engine bay, there are many cut wires on the wiring harness to the engine. I don't have power windows, but I'm not sure about power door locks or the hatch motor stuff. I also read that pre-85 camaros didn't have any ecm/pcm thing in them, but I'm not exactly sure about that since this car has the check engine light, choke, brake, and seatbelt lights underneath the gauges. If anybody could post some pictures of what a pretty much stock wiring setup would look like, that would be very helpful. Any help and information is appreciated so I can get this thing back into working order.

Here's the front left headlight area. Seems like there's some sort of box missing.


The thing which was for the heating and AC, not sure what that big connector was for, or what it hooked up to.


Some plug coming from the wiring harness of the engine


Another plug from the wiring harness


The many cut wires from the wiring harness


A loose hanging connctor under the dash to something. Maybe it goes to that panel behind it?


Another connector close to the previous. Maybe goes to the same panel?


A large connector which is to the right of the steering column


Fuse panel


Center console wiring. Anyone know what these cut wires would go to?

8t2 z-chev

all US sold Camaros since the 1981 2nd gen had ECMs.For the pics:
-1 cruise control went there
-2 cycling switch plug(for AC)
-3 looks like EGR valve plug
-4 looks like CTS plug(updated with '85 up connector)
-5 cut -off remains of engine ECM harness
-6 not sure on that one-I think it is just a junction block
-7 unknown
-8 ALDL plug(diagnostics,works with ECM)
-9 fuse panel looks trashed-best to replace if possible
-10 unknown

84LsxZ28

Thanks for the reply! I should also mention that this car has an aftermarket carb and manifold on it.

1. When you say the cruise control went there, do you mean the vacuum ball, or is something completely different?

3. With the EGR valve plug, would having that disconnected make my engine have trouble idling? Since I can't seem to get it to stay on for very long, but it starts up well every time.

4. What does the CTS plug do? I've seen that it connects to the stock manifold, but I'm lost beyond that.

5. Does it look someone just removed the ECM completely from this car because of those cut wires?

Edwardgp

Some people should not be allowed to even think about working on any part of a car. 84ls you have a hack job you must straighten out, I feel the pain of hackery looking at your pictures.

EnvoyIROCZ

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

The worst thing is, that looks like it may have been a heavily optioned car. All of the plugs in the junction box would have gone to things like power windows, seats, mirrors, locks and such. My advice is find a donor and just take every bit of wiring and replace it.

84LsxZ28

Argh, I'm just going to go to the pick-a-part place in my city and get all the stuff that I need to get this car back in to decent shape. I've found some good wiring diagrams for the dashboard controls, and last night as I was taking these pictures, I got the turn signals working in the dash somehow. Must be some bad connections somewhere

84LsxZ28

Just got back from the pickapart place and I got a "new" fusebox from a 91 RS which is in great condition. Most of the fuse spots line up, but a few are different. Should I just connect them to the same spots and make sure to note that they are for different fucntions than what the fuse box says?

1984:


1991:

8t2 z-chev

sounds like a good plan on the fuse panel-once the replacement is in and working check for fuses that heat up under load;if fuse panel has been exposed to moisture or high humidity,oxidized connection can occur between brass contacts and tin plated fuse blades causing a bad connection that heats up-looks like this is what ruined the original fuse panel.
For the other questions:
1-cruise control actuator went there-cable led to carb linkage.
3-has no effect since ECM system disabled in your car
4-same as above,commected to the ECM for engine temp info.
5-ECM may still be in place-it is under the dash on passenger side,aluminum box mounted in a yellowish plastic frame.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

I didn't see it answered yet but 7 is the dimmer switch. The reason I said replace it all is because with all that white corrosion on the interior, it leads me to believe it may be a flood victim. May just be from the Fl salty air, but it look suspicious and could explain all the wiring being removed.

84LsxZ28

Oh crap, if it were in a flood, that would explain a lot. I hope it didn't go through one though

Where does that connector hook up, and where is the actual dimmer switch? Is it the switch for the headlights of the car that turns?

Edit: Just found that connectors spot, along the steering column to a white socket. There's an arm which is connected to the white socket which is pushed in when the arm on the steering column for turn signals and wipers is pushed towards the driver. What's the purpose for that?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

84LsxZ28

Okay, I did some more searching and everything, and I got it hooked up to the right spot under the dash. I was a bit confused earlier, but now everything's all good with the dimmer switch connection. Thanks!

84LsxZ28

I went under the dash on the passenger side and I found the ECM still there, all connected and everything. Since there are all the cut wires in the engine bay for what I assume are emissions, what do I need to do to correctly use the ECM just to run the gauges, or should I just take the ECM out all together and run the gauges other ways?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

ECM doesn't work the gauges. There are two harnesses coming through the firewall on the drivers side. One is the lighting, the other is the engine harness. All the gauges hook up through the engine harness. You can completely do away with the ECM harness if you make or buy a TCC control unit for converter lockup.

84LsxZ28

Okay, the trans doesn't lock up at the moment anyways, so I think I'll just remove the thing as soon as possible. What does the harness that that goes to the ECM on the passenger's side work with then if the ECM doesn't control the guages? Will I just be able to pull out the whole harness that goes to the ECM, and all the wires which go to the driver side dash from the ECM? Thanks for helping and answering all my questions, I've never dealt with a car that has been this hacked up along with an ECM

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

ECM operates nothing you have left but the converter, and it's not doing that because you have no sensors to tell it what is happening with the engine. That is nothing unless you still have a computer controlled carb and no vacuum advance distributor. There's a thread here with directions on how to make a controller for the lockup or you can buy one of the aftermarket ones.

84LsxZ28

In the picture that has the wires cut from the ECM, do all the other wires still in tact coming off of that harness not connect anything on the ECM, or if they do, do they not matter since all the other stuff is pretty much gone?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

If you have a non computer controlled carb and a vacuum advance distributor, you can take the entire harness from the ECM and toss it. You will have to have a controller for the converter though.

84LsxZ28

Awesome, thank you so much for the help! This will make rewiring the car a whole lot cleaner and less overwhelming.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

You have quite the job ahead and I don't envy you. Invest in a good soldering iron, flux core solder and a ton of heat shrink tubes if you plan on splicing all of that back. I personally would find a donor harness. You don't know what you will run into once you get it all hooked up. It would be loads less work as intimidating as it may seem. We have another member going through the same thing right now, Mr Banados.

84LsxZ28

The more I look at this car, I see the previous owner didn't hack much up on the light harness. My hazard lights/turn signals work (somewhat). I think once I replace the fuse box and get the ECM out, I won't have a horrible job ahead of me. This really looked terrible at first, but it doesn't seem too bad now that I have assesed the problem.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

To fill in the blanks from 8t2z's comments:
7 - interior orange (hot) and white (door switch ground) are for interior lights. That could be for the foot light, but I think it is an (optional) connector for a dome light or roof console.

10 - At the center console, the big yellow wire is the starter interlock that's been hacked. This has to be connected for the car to start. normally it would plug into the auto shifter, with the other wire cut at the top of the picture. The dark blue/light blue/pink bundle chopped off is for power windows. This runs from the console, under the driver's seat, along the driver's door sill, and up the left kick panel.

Since you are getting/got a replacement harness, this will help you identify the circuits on the new one, too.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That connector is for the optional footwell courtesy lights for cars without the hush panels.

Keep in mind there are 3 separate harnesses for the interior: Dash, Power Door Accessories, and Body (front-to-rear). Not counting the radio speaker harness.

84, if you need any connectors, I have a whole box of the things. I do not, however, have any for a carb itself.

84LsxZ28

I found out number 7 did go to the dimmer switch on the steering column. My car has no power door locks or windows though so I'm guessing the hatch unlock is the only thing I have as a switch on the console. What is the starter interclock for?

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

No one is trying to tell you what you have, only what you had. Colors are right for the power windows.

84LsxZ28

I know no one is telling me what I have, I just worded that wrong I guess. But I don't have power windows, I have cranks on each door panel and no electrical door lock buttons on the panel either. So, that leads me to believe I have mechanical systems since everyother third gen I've seen with the electric systems have had door lock buttons and no window cranks.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

Had to have been converted. That would be one thing that had to be compensated for when the wiring was cut for whatever reason. Would be nice to know why this all came about. Peek into the mind of the PO while he was doing this.

84LsxZ28

If it really was converted, I hope all the motors are still in the doors. if not, then I'll just go back to the junkyard and pull some off of the donor car I got the fusebox from. I already got the switches for the windows from that car since they were the same color wires in the center console, but I was confused that there were cranks on my window.

Joe Tag

iTrader: (4)

They aren't there, impossible.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If your car has the window cranks, you won't have the window motors. They're completely separate regulators.

If, and I do mean IF, your car had (has?) the power door accessories, then all of the wires in the one harness will be running up into the conduit behind the top of the dash. And there will be an empty screw hole under the console, on the squarish beam just to the front of the parking brake handle, which is where the window switch ground wire would go. This hole won't just be a hole but it will look threaded. Also, look behind each kick panel and look for the hole in the body that either has or had the rubber elbow that would run between the body and the door. If they're plugged, no power accessories. If they are wide open or have wires coming out (should be on the order of like 9 wires per side if the car had power windows), then your doors either are or were power equipped.

84LsxZ28

Not even the electric door locks? Also, did the carpeting on the door panela usually match the carpet color? Because my door panels carpet is black and the floor carpet is gray. Would that be a clue that someone probably removed the power window motors and door locks?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

It's a possibility.

However, I doubt whomever would have taken the time to remove the door lock motors if they were originally installed... They might save a pound in weight between them and they're not exactly the easiest things to get out of the doors (window regulators are harder but you don't have to disconnect so many lock rods).

The only way to answer whether or not the car had door accessories is to take off the door panels. If the doors had accessories that were removed, you will notice 6 spots on the inner structure where rivets have been cut, 4 for the window regulator and 2 down at the bottom in the rear for the lock motor. There will also be another hole a couple inches above the lock motor for the lock bellcrank...

84LsxZ28

I just looked through the car And I can see wires running up through the conduit to the top of the dash, and I took off the kickpanel on the drivers side which revealed a bundle of nine wires running to the door. Looks like I'll be buying some new motors for my doors now

Edit: Just found out, the doors on my car are not the original doors from my car. Someone put some regular old camaro doors without power options on.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Well, I'm sure you will never be able to track down the originals, so...

Your options are simple, but complicated.

1. You can pull the door panels and see what's going on in the doors, whether or not they have electric accessories or not. If they do, then you get the difficult task of rewiring and replacing the window regulators.
2. You can pull the doors and sell them as is and swap in a set of power doors. It's not that you can't replace the manual parts, it's just that the parts won't exactly be cheap, and you will still need to replace the door panels or find a way to plug the window crank holes. Only reason it didn't cost me anything is because I already had 4 doors' worth of parts.

Either way, you have a seriously butchered mess on your hands and your best bet is to buy a full replacement harness rather than doing it piecemeal.

84LsxZ28

I may just buy the doors from the car I was using at the pickapart place since they had all the power options and some actual locks. Also found out that my car doesn't have the pulldown motor for the hatch either.

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

If you get whole doors from a donor, might as well grab the harness that goes with them and save yourself that headache.

Might want to double check on the year the hatch motor was introduced... I can't be sure if it was 84 or 85... You car may not have it because it's not supposed to.

84LsxZ28

Good idea. I'll head over to tge pickapart place tomorrow and see if I can take them off. Also, I just pulled the ECM out of the car. Now, there is this one connector that's next to tge ecm, but also on the harness. I've traced it through the dash and I see that it comes out to the ALDL plug. Is it okay to remove this since the ECM is coming out, or is there more to the whole thing?



Also, this little box next to the ecm infront of the heater, is this for the speedometer?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

That large plug I would leave. Those pink wires are all power wires and you don't know what they go to. For future reference, in general, pink, orange, and red wires are all power wires.
The black box is the cruise control module (the computer). The system may be mostly intact with the exception of the modulator in the engine compartment.

84LsxZ28

Okay, good to know! I'm not planning on putting cruise control back into the car, so is it alright to remove that box? Also, from the harness to the ECM, since I removed the ECM already, would it be fine to just separate the harness and remove what was going to the ecm while leaving that other connector?

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

The cruise module is connected to a whole separate harness you can yank if you want to. There will also be a switch on the brake pedal bracket that also gets chucked. This one is the one with the vacuum tube going to it. And then yank the other half of the harness out of the engine compartment.

You will want to invest in a terminal repin tool. Then you can deal with the ECM wiring without damaging much of anything or too much frustration.

Ramses77

Hello! I have same question.Responsible for what connector (On previos photo)?
http://radikall.com/images/2014/01/09/U0bgp.jpg
And have anybody service manual for camaro 1983 in pdf. Can you send it to romnep89@gmail.com.please) thanks in advance)))

8t2 z-chev

I think those plugs originally connected to the engine ECM harness_has the ECM and electronic controlled carburetor and distributor been swapped for earlier non-electronic versions? BTW I had a VAZ car too-2107"lada"1987When it is daytime i'll check my '82 z28 to see if the plugs you pictured indeed go to the ECM harness.

84LsxZ28

Hi everyone, so a bit of time has passed since I first made this thread and a lot has gotten done on my car.

I have completely removed the ECM and its harness, removed the cruise control system, gotten my gauge cluster working (Except for a bad tachometer), and have gotten my headlights working! My engine is running strong without the ECM, but I need to rebuild the carb. Today I will be putting in an MSD Street Fire distributor, new spark plug wires, and new spark plugs. Soon I should have most of the electronics working and it able to be streetable

@Ramses77, that connector is for the ECM harness that goes to the check engine light, the ALCL connector, vehicle speed sensor, and the fuse box.

Here's a reapair manual download from another member on this site:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/cu..._1982-1992.rar

It will only get you so far though. I bought a shop manual by GM for my exact year car and it is much better with every wiring diagram for the car and detailed pictures.

Edwardgp

Way to go 84L, the original shop manual is the book to have for sure.

Ramses77

Thank you))) I have this book(repair guide). Do you know how to do A/C works without ECM? I will post photos of my heater`s and A/C`s harness later. Sorry for my English))I taught him in school 8 years ago) Now remember him by manuals)))

84LsxZ28

I am not sure about the wiring for the AC without an ECM. My car has the blowers for it, but nothing was connected when I bought. The AC system is the last thing for this car I will be tackling.