1989 GTA car started and ran great when I bought it. Had a non vats key. The steering column was shot. The bolts that held the tilt were actually broken not loose. So I picked up another steering wheel control column and installed it using the original connections that were on my car. Only new connections are the one inside the new column, this is also a non vats column. I get power but no crank unless I jumper the starter relay. However, it will not start. I now have a security light on my dash with the check engine soon light on. Neither will shut off. So now I do not have a vats key, the GM dealer said my VIN did not come with the VATS option. I do have the VATS location connection at the bottom of the column. I have used every combination of resistors and none of them disable the security. I'm completely lost. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Have a chip burned and tune vats out

 

Non vats car

 

1989 is a vats year car

 

You and I are agreement on that. How ever my car has never had a vats key since the day I bought it. And when I went to the dealer today to get the chip # so I could build a resistor they showed me that my car by VINE never had VATS. I Never had the issue before swapping the columns

 

Interesting. Do you have spark and fuel?

 

I don't know what they showed you, but the dealership / GM doesn't have ANY way to know what resistor pellet your car has or ever had. My guess is that VATS was somehow bypassed in the column wiring and that the replacement column doesn't have that bypass. Go to your old column and measure the resistance of those two circuits, I'd bet you have a resistance value other than O.L. or Infinity.

 

I've tried switching back to the old key lock cylinder since it has the wiring for VATS. It's the same key kit Hawks sells as a VATS replacement set. Still no luck.

 

It's been a while since I've had to diagnose a VATS issue, but let's discuss the basics first. Did you check fuses to make sure nothing popped while you were swapping the column? I'm no expert on swapping columns, and don't know what the column came out of to compare schematics, but are the electrical connections in the right cavities to make the same connections as the original column you removed?

Having asked all of that, and assuming it is a VATS issue, when you were trying resistor combinations, were you trying the specific 15 values possible for this car? And as important, did you turn off the Ignition and wait 4 minutes between each unsuccessful attempt before trying the next one?

 

Here are the Resistance Values and a schematic. Try measuring the voltage and the Hz reading at A2 of the Passkey Module.

 

All fuses have been checked and are good. I even cleaned the connections. Both columns have Identical wiring and I have unplugged and plugged them all back in. I even rechecked them to make sure each was connected correctly. I checked all 15 values for vats resistance. Which the original key for the car did not have a vats key but had the wiring for vats. The car started each time. New column installed is identical to my old one, even came out of a GTA. I will try waiting longer between trying each VATS resistors. What doesn't make sense is that neither key is a vats key but yet I have a security light that is on.

 

I've edited my post above to add the schematic and a suggestion on checking voltage and Hz at A2. Also, do you have 5v when measuring voltage between the two lock cylinder wires (terminal A6 & B2)? I've got a couple of thoughts on why all this was working before now and after a swap it doesn't, but they're not solid thoughts so I am not sure yet why all of this changed for you so quickly.

 

I'll check that when I get home

 

Ok my prom chip is APYU 3516. Is this a VATS chip? Also when I got home today the security light was out. Still no cranking. Battery voltage is good. After a few connection checks it came back on. Then 10 minutes later it is off again.

 

Using the PROM chart I have access to I can tell you that PROM is for 1989, the PN is 16150500 and it is for the ECM Production PN 16133531 and ECM Service PN 16198259. I can't find a chart that would indicate it is VATS or not, but I'm not a parts guy either. I am confident all 1989 FB were PassKey (VATS). The PassKey Module is what controls the Security light. One of my thoughts right now is that, maybe whoever bypassed VATS did it by placing a resistor at the PassKey module and maybe it got knocked loose during the column swap. You could test for that by measuring resistance of each of the two circuits from the column to the PassKey Module (the WHT/BLK and the PPL/YEL) to see if either has a resistance greater than 1 ohm (402-11.8k ohms).

 

Where is the wiring at?

 

I already inquired about getting a VATS delete chip made. No luck at the pass key. The shop who installed the original ignition said they bypassed it by jumping the wires together at the end of the ignition. Tried that also and still no luck.

 

It's at the base of the steering column and the other end is at the PassKey module. I assume you were trying resistors at base of the column, here's a photo of where the passkey module should be located.

 

OK, let me know what the other voltages and Hz readings are. Jumpering wires at the ignition (I assume they mean ignition lock cylinder and not ignition switch) is not how the system works, normally. When a brand new module is connected, it "learns" the first resistance value it reads, and then that module has that resistance value for life. Once the module "sees" that resistance value, it does two things, it supplies ground to the Starter Enable relay and it send an approximate 50Hz PWM signal to the ECM to enable the fuel injectors. Now if they jumpered wires from the lock cylinder and then installed a brand new module, I guess that might have worked, but it's a real hard and expensive way of making it work. So I'd guess what they meant was that they jumpered these two wires together with a resistor and it would make sense that they would do that either at the base of the column or right at the PassKey module, but not at the lock cylinder because they would've had to disassemble the column partially to get to the lock cylinder. So let me know what voltage and Hz readings you have and that will help me help you further with what is happening on your car.

 

This has already been said but if jumping the starter enable relay connector in the kick panel allows the car to crank the next thing to do is follow through with replacing the EPROM eliminating the VATS aspect from the module

There used to be a guy here that would do it for $ 30.00 but he is no longer around.

If someone here could guide you to the proper source, it can eliminate migraine headaches.

I know because I had it done.

 

Stay Tuned

 

I agree that it would be the easier way to just disable it. I have to ask though... Is "stay Tuned" a pun on your User Name?

 

If the VATS is working... when you turn on the key, the security light will come on for a second or two then go out. If it's not recognizing the key I don't it comes on at all. I think.

 

mackjarr66 contacted me about disabling the vats in his memcal programing. I quoted him $35 for it with return shipping/Tracking included. It has yet to show so im assuming he replaced his key or lock cylinder or bypassed the key cylinder with the appropriate resisters.

 

I did contact tuned performance and at $35 you can't beat the cost. But I found a local shop to take out the VATS because I get the cost taken off my Dyno tune in the spring. I'll let you know how it goes

 

Got my chip back last night and installed it. However, I have a bad battery. I'll let you know how it goes. I at least know the security light is off now. Car just will not crank and dash reads under 9v

 

Ok new battery installed. Dash still reads 9v. No security light on. SES flashes then goes solid and still no cranking. I tried to jumper the starter relay wiring and the starter will not crank

 

OK, that sucks. Go back up to post #10 and look at the schematic there. Start at the ignition switch and check power at each component from there to the starter. Tell us where you lose voltage.

 

I did find one of the fuse links at the battery not so fused any more. But off to work for now. I will say this the only reason why I'm doing this is to show how well the TPI system works so I can sell it. At this point it may be just easier to pull the driveline like I planned and sell it as is.

 

OK, use either a multimeter or a test light probe.


Go back to the starter enable relay and probe the connecters large wires for power when you turn the key to start, trying to start the car at that time should send power to one of the wires.


One of the wires should be 12v


No disrespect meant but this is how to test them.
Multimeter = red probe on wire, black probe to a good ground. Turn key
Test light = probe on wire, wire with clip to a good ground. Turn key


If you're not getting power there then your problem is upstream on that circuit.


If you do get power than your problem is downstream of that same circuit = wire to starter/starter connection/bad starter.


Hope that helps some.


Side note = you can also test the small wires the same way to see if VATS is active.
Should be the dark green wire but test them all .If you don't get power there when you turn the key VATS "is" active.


You can also probe each side of the VATS fuse holder to see if the module is getting power. One should be hot at all times.

 

No offense taken. I plan on replacing the fuse link at the battery today. Once that's done I'll start going through the wiring again. The whole thing can be a pain but every time I go through something like this it's worth the learning experience. Makes it easier to help others out.

 

First thing is first thanks for all the help. After fixing the fuse link in the positive battery cable I tested at 12v at the starter relay. The relay being brand new would not start the car. But when I jumper the wires it fired right up

 

So that means VATS is not sending power to activate the relay when you turn the key like it should. It is actually trying to block the starter from getting power at this time.


The new EPROM is doing its part as far as eliminating the VATS aspect of blocking injectors.
VATS is still blocking the starter. That's why the jump works.


This could be premature, but "congratulations", VATS is no longer an issue.


You can move on with other gremlins if you have them.

 

Oh yes other gremlins like replacing the intermediate shaft with the astro van conversion, actually installing the column, fixing the class 2 leak in the trans pan, all new suspension, fixing the strut tower rust need I go on?! Thanks. And yes she still fires up every time

 

This is absolutely the perfect time to post this link.
This is what mackjar66 ended up doing to solve his problem with VATS.


Anyone having trouble with there cars concerning VATS "really" should read this thread.

When getting rid of VATS is what you want, than this is
the anwser to your problem =

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ing-tuned.html

 

Absolutely agree with eliminating the vats. It is essentially the cheapest and easiest route to go.