zman1969

iTrader: (9)

Ok I bought a 90 350 Formula bird for some parts and I decided to keep it together instead of parting it out.this has been neglected and abused- steering column damaged beyond repair I bought a 92 column at PnP for 44$ so I will swap column.
i want to eliminate the VATS I bought a 88 and older lock&key so no key sensor. OK I'm ignorant on how this system works so I'm looking for suggestions to make this start and runnable
thanks

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Go back to the junkyard, get the key and the VATS module from the 92, exchange the VATS box and just use the 92 key.

Or...

Find a way to generate the 15 resistance values needed for VATS. Try each one until you find the one that activates the VATS module. Have a key blank with that VATS value cut to match the lock cylinder in the car, away you go.

The difference between bypassing the VATS and just making it work is a lock cylinder, key blank, and having the blank cut to match the cylinder.

zman1969

iTrader: (9)

can stock chip be programmed without vats?

I could but no key with 92 column I dont think PnP would sell key?
any threads on finding what resister activates vats module?

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

How about jumping the yellow (E) & green/wht (A) wires on the "starter enable relay".Which is behind the dr.side kick panel.

zman1969

iTrader: (9)

what does that get me?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Drew

iTrader: (58)

In theory, according to GM legend, all VATS modules are the same. The first time they're powered up in a car, the VATS module supposedly 'learns' the key value, and forever onward it looks for that value on start-up.

If you have a matched key and VATS module, you just get a key blank with the right value VATS pellet, and have it cut to fit the ignition lock.

If you don't have a key that goes with the VATS module, you have to try each key value one by one until you find the one that lets the module work. A good locksmith from 20 years ago might have a VATS interrogator, which is a fancy box that generates each of the value signals, or you can get a set of keyless start VATS bypass resistors off Ebay and try each one at a time until you get success. Worst part is waiting X number of minutes between attempts, because when the VATS module sees the wrong value, it disables the system temporarily before it resets and will let you try again.

The VATS system does two things, it triggers a starter relay, so the engine won't crank with the wrong key, and it generates a signal that the EFI computer requires to let the engine run. Bypassing the relay is simple as falling off a log, but the easiest way to generate the signal is the VATS module.

With all due respect to those who believe in disabling VATS, I just don't see the point. It's as easy to fix VATS and have it functional, as most of the band-aid bypass methods.

Who 'buys' a key from PNP? Buy a VATS module and take the key, they're a matched set. Or pick up a set off ebay... or in the classifieds here.

zman1969

iTrader: (9)

Thank you Drew for your help! heck thank you all for your help!! when I found the 92 to remove the column, there was no key in car so its water under the bridge. I have searched this before and seen threads Tuned Perf listed so. I'm halfway between keeping the vats or bypassing it all together my 87 didn't have this so IMO its not needed. but if its as simple as getting correct key and vats module and swap them in? where about is module located at? pics would help i have no idea what this module looks like! I'm a Vats Virgin please be gentle

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

Your not gonna like the answer ......

The VATS module lives in the deepest depths of the dashboard , buried SO deep that no car thief could ever possibly reach it in some parking lot trying to steal the car . This photo shows when I was replacing my entire dashboard and the VATS module is the grey box hanging just above the heater/AC controls .

In my opinion , your best bet if not restoring the key pellet operation , would be to do the resistor bypass with a hidden toggle switch (acting as a "kill switch") to preserve some kind of anti theft functionality for your car . To do the resistor bypass (or an aftermarket pulse generator wired to the ECM to supply a substitute VATS signal) would not require all the work to access the original VATS module .

Remember , these cars are just about the easiest to pull the ignition with a "dent puller" (slide hammer) in less than a minute ("Gone in 60 seconds" ring any bells here ?) so preserving any antitheft system is better than leaving it totally unprotected .....

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

PS , in case you were wondering , the reason I had to replace the dashboard (as well as the entire rest of the interior) is because a previous owner has the entire interior painted a hideous green color , even the steering wheel and shifter were painted . It took me close to two years to find all the proper color (grey) interior pieces and install it into the car .

zman1969

iTrader: (9)

Well this car would be very low on a thief's list of cars wanted to steal, its almost hard to look at! between the separated spoiler to fenders bent from improper lifting to peeling clear coat. my main priority will be to get it running & driving then work on aesthetics hell when i firs laid eyes on it i thought it was a dead 6 cyl car but it has been full of alot of surprises in a good way Odo reads 71k could be wrong but its been off road lat 13 years

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Changing the VATS module isn't THAT bad. It's annoying, but not awful. The dash is mostly 'modular' in the sense that after removing the dash pad, and the trim panels on the bottom, there are about 4 10mm bolts, one in each corner, top and bottom, then 2 7mm in front of each speaker, one in the middle... Loosen the two column nuts, and the entire thing can be pulled away from the cowl. The VATS module is screwed to the back of the HVAC duct, so once you can get at it, it's just a single wire harness, and two 7mm screws and it's out. It seems like a chore, but it's not like there will be anti-freeze pouring everywhere... Or ATF pouring everywhere... Or Dot III in your hair... Idk, maybe it's just me but it only takes an hour or two to completely strip the interior out of a thirdgen.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Just for fun... On the late Firebird HVAC duct, I've always seen the VATS module mounted between the duct and the firewall on the right side of the dash. It's worth noting that many diagrams in service manuals show it on the left of the dash, and there is a provision there to mount the box, so potentially two places it could be. Camaros might have it in the same places or somewhere else, idk.

pg29

My dad and I used a variable resistor to "find" the correct resistance when my keys were stolen at a bar one night. I believe we had to wait some time between trying each design resistance value until we found the right one. After you find the right one, you just have to solder in the correct resistor, so the vats module will always see the correct resistance, and allow the car to start. As others have mentioned already, the car will unprotected now against theft, so if you value your car, I'd highly recommend wiring in a hidden kill switch (or two) to preserve some sort of theft protection on the car.

This is the table we used to find the correct resistance on my 1988 GTA. I believe these resistance values are the same on Camaro/Firebirds, but if I'm wrong on that, someone will chime in I'm sure.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)