So my battery issues returned today. When I went to go start my car, it was normal at first. The fuel pump primed, indicator lights came on, gauges rest themselves, etc. When I turned the key I heard the car trying to start like normal but then everything died. All of the indicators went off. Now when I turn the key to acc or run nothing comes on. The gauges haven't rest them selves, the fuel pump doesn't prime and the head lights won't work. Fans don't work. I'm too afraid to pump the trunk but I'm just going to assume the hood latch won't work.
However, when I check the car with my multimeter it reads 12.6-12.8 and when I tried using the jump box on the battery nothing happened.

A neighbor suggested my engine could be seized but I didn't hear any loud knocking noise and I just changed oil a month ago. Also no smoke or any mess on the driveway. I checked the oil dip stick, the oil is still gold and at just above full. Also wouldn't the electronics still work if the engine is seized?

Last time the car drove was last night. For the last month I've been driving it about two miles to my parents house and back. About a four mile round trip each day. I simply parked the car in the driveway, put it in park and shut it off.

What could have caused this?

 

Sounds like a bad cable connection; either at the batt terminals, or where the black one goes to the block, or where the red one goes to the starter terminal. Maybe the cable itself even, where the end connects to the wire.

 

Both of the cables were replaced almost a year ago when I ended having a bunch of different battery problems. Could they be bad again already?
Is there an easy way to check?

 

A thought hit me. I think Sofaking is thinking in the right direction. My cables still could be bad, but they were replaced last year. Usually, in my experience if an autopart is faulty it usually fails in the first few days not 10 months later.

That being said, the side post terminals on my car could be bad. Maybe they aren't holding the cables in place properly. Which is why the battery is fine but the car has no power.

However, now I can't find side post terminals for sale on any of the websites. When I search O'Reillys, Autozone, RockAuto, etc. Nothing comes up. Anyone have a link or a part number?

 

...

 

Definitely check your ground connections at the engine, and both cables at the battery. Did you put the starred washer back between the negative cable and whatever you hooked the ground cable to?

 

I had a shop replace the cables last year. It's a very long story. Basically it starts with me being sold a faulty (and possibly used) battery from AAA. My car being towed to my go to mechanic and I brought an ACDelco battery from him with three year warranty and had him replace the cables. The shop owner is a good friend of the family. This was early June of last year when they were replaced. I'll do some wire tracing early tomorrow and look for the ground. I'm at my parents right now.

 

Grab ahold of the cables at the battery and see if you can twist them, I've seen battery bolts bottom out in the battery terminal, and they seem tight but the lead gets a little corrosion on it and boom, no connection. See if you can turn the end of the cable around the center bolt...

 

Do you happen to know the part number for the battery bolts? I've been Googling around and can't seem to find any.

 

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b...erminal&pos=11

 

I'll call my local store and see if they have them. It says out of stock and no pickup in store.

 

Minor updates. I found the star washer that the negative cable is grounded to. It's right on the frame by the passenger side fender. Looks fine and intact.

Also I can't twist the battery cables at all. They are firmly in place against the battery. They look a little shifted though, like they aren't all the way in the slots. So I found side post bolts from Autozone and they have next day delivery so I I will try that.

If that doesn't work. Not sure what else to check. I know my car has zero power like the battery isn't connected at all. The light underneath the dash doesn't come on when I open the door and the power seat doesn't move.

 

follow the negative cable down to the engine, see if its tight there...

 

Take the connection completely apart and clean the lug/washer/frame with a stiff wire brush or piece of fine sandpaper. Look closely at where the battery cable joins to the lug; just because a connection "looks" okay doesn't mean it's electrically sound.

Remove them, and clean them and the posts on the battery, as above. Again, look at where the cables join the connectors, looking for any crusty deposits indicating corrosion. Cables can---and will---corrode down the length of the cable under the insulation.


Be careful when working around batteries and cables; don't do anything that can cause a short between positive and ground.

 

The negative battery cable MUST go to the block. Only a small wire should go to the "frame", plus the ground straps that connect the engine to the firewall.

Follow the BIG negative cable to its far end, and investigate that connection as well.

 

Sounds like a bad fusible link at the starter.

 

From the description of the events, I would think he blew one of the fusible links

 

The small wire is on the frame. I'm going to check again once I get off work (since I work from home) but I'm pretty sure the negative cable goes right in front of the alternator. That's where the old cables went as well.

 

I'm guessing on the starter? Do you happen to know what gauge it is? or what size I need?

I'll call the shop that did my cables a year ago. They might of replaced the fusible link as well. This may be under warranty.

 

Yes, from the starter.There are two different size main feeds from the starter to the C100 that feed the inside of the car. The Fusible links are 4 sizes smaller than the wire, and IIRC one wire is 10 gauge and the other 12, so you would need a 14 gauge link and a 16 gauge.

To test a fusible link you pull on the wire since the insulation may still present as in tact when the wire inside has melted.
If your battery ground is on the alternator instead of the block, that could cause resistance to ground and cause things to draw more power. Like sofa said, the ground should be attached to the block. If you need a supplemental ground to the alternator you should run a separate wire from the alt to the block

 

My negative cable has been grounded on the alternator bracket since I've owned the car. My buddy's C10 is the same way. I flipped to page 6D-9 in my 1986 Service manual and it flatout shows the negative cable grounded to the alternator. That's just the way early 80s Chevys came from the factory. When I brought my car 7 years ago it still had the original factory alternator and battery cables and they were always like that.

I'll try pulling the fusible link wire. Getting to the start may be difficult since the car is stuck in my driveway and I have headers.

 

Updates. I pulled on the positive battery cable and it seems firmly tight to the starter. This probably makes the fusible link even more likely.

After letting the car sit over night. When I opened the door floor light was on. But as soon as I turn the key, I hear the fuel pump start to prime for half a second and then everything dies. If you wait 15 minutes the floor light comes back on but dies if you touch anything electrical (power seat switch, blinkers, hazard, etc).

 

There are 2 fusible links. Wrap your head fully around the critical concept: there are 2 of them.

One feeds one-half of the ign sw, among other things; the other feeds the other half, the headlight sw, and various other things.

Easy enough to see, for fusible links to take down THE WHOLE CAR in the manner at hand, they would BOTH have to be blown, THE SAME. While by no means "impossible" - anything CAN break, and probably will - for BOTH of them to be PARTLY blown in the EXACT SAME way at the EXACT SAME time to the EXACT SAME degree, and in such a manner that they INTERACT (anything that happens to one affects both) would be … unlikely at best. Quantum-mechanically unlikely.

I think those can be ruled out until other MORE LIKELY potential causes are investigated more fully.

The problem is the battery, battery cables, or their connections.

Instead of posting on the Internet and "looking at" or "checking" or "pulling" things, go physically out to your car with tools in your hand: disconnect both cables at both ends starting with the neg one at the batt and then all the other 3 connections; clean them up, as well as the places they attach to (the 2 batt terminals, the block, and the starter post), using a wire brush, sandpaper, and a solution of baking soda in hot water; reattach them carefully making sure their connections are secure, doing the neg one at the batt last; and see what happens.

That's a major part of your problem right there. If you intend to own an ANTIQUE car and drive it regularly, you MUST do little minor routine maintenance like this YOURSELF. Even someone you might otherwise trust, like a family friend, is no substitute.

Your problem is the batt, the cables, or their connection at the ends. There is only one other possible part, and that's the ring terminal that connects BOTH fusible links to the same post on the starter that the batt cable also connects to. Nothing else.

 

I'll do that tonight after it gets cooler out later tonight.

I normally do most of my own work. I've change my own oil, I do 90% of the parts replacement on this car just from reading on here. Only things like transmission and my rear end I can't do.

But last year was a complicated story. I had an ACDelco battery in my car that I brought from Advance for 4 years it died. I couldn't jump it. Called AAA. They sold me a battery right there, told me it has a 3 year warranty. I paid signed and all was good for two weeks. Then my battery was dead. I try to jump it myself with my jump box. No luck. I call AAA. He tries to jump it. No luck. He puts his load tester on it and says the voltage is too low that it now voids warranty. He tries to sell me another battery. I call AAA directly. They say there is nothing they can do expect sell me a new battery. I ask for tow instead.

New tow guy comes. He decides to check my battery and do a load test. Tells me my battery is fine but the alternator has failed and wants to try to tow me to some shop he recommends. After him trying to be persuasive for 5 mins, I demand to be taken to the shop my family goes to. I threaten to call AAA and complain. He tows the car, we drive down in awkward silence. I take it to the shop.

This shop has been in business for over 30 years. Owner is a hands on tech himself. Diehard Chevy guy. He owns a vintage 57 Chevy and an old GMC K1500 that he maintains himself. He knows OBD1 Chevys like the back of his hand. He is also a ACDelco battery dealer. He sells me the ACDelco battery for Auto parts store price with 3 year warranty. He also fixed my battery cables just for labor (with warranty as well) the cables were free of charge.
And from myself and everyone else I know who goes to him he is good on his word with warranty. If he makes a mistake he owns up to it and fixes it free of charge. His two other techs own a 1995 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 and a Jeep CJ as daily drivers. They know old cars. A lot of classic cars go to him for work in my area. He's the closest thing to a hot rod shop.

After a few months a phone arguing I was able to get a refund for the AAA battery. However, they wanted me to pay a fee for one of their tow truck drivers to come and collect it. So I still have it in my garage. I've been meaning to take it to one of the recycling yards.

 

Check the ground strap at the back of the engine to the firewall as well. It sounds like it could be more of a grounding issue. Fusible links generally don't go unless there was an electrical short and to have both go at the same time is unlikely. Use a volt meter to test if you have one. The small ground wire from the battery to the fender or front frame is to ground the front of the car more so. The ground strap from the engine to the firewall takes care of the rest of the cars electrical. If there is a bad connection there it'll take out all power.

 

Where is the ground strap at the back of the engine to the firewall? What color wire am I looking for? Where does it run out from? Is it on the driverside near the relay's or is that one technically on the fender?

Also when testing with a multimeter what do I do exactly? Do I set it to resistance, put the negative on the negative battery terminal and use the positive on the grounding point? What numbers am I looking for?

 

The ground strap is a flat braided wire that goes from the back of passenger side head to the firewall. It’s generally over looked and after 30 years. They corrode, break from flexing or simply loose contact. Put your volt meter selector to DC volts. Place the positive lead on the positive side of the battery then take the negative lead and touch the fire wall. Make sure you get bare metal. You should read the battery voltage. If it’s 0 or less than the battery voltage you have a bad ground. Look at the ground strap and see what condition it’s in. If it’s frayed or corroded or covered in grease or oil clean it up or replace it. The volt meter will tell all. Trouble shooting electrical in cars are more than likely grounding issues from my experience. Especially in old cars.




here’s a pic of a general location of it.

 

If the end of the heavy gauge ground cable goes to the alternator bracket, make sure there's a star washer there too, between the bracket and the cable, not the bolt and the cable. My first '70 Chevelle did this very thing way back when I was a wee lad because I didn't know there was supposed to be a star washer there...

 

Couple of updates. I found the ground wire on the firewall. Mine isn't braided (probably should be) and there are two wires connected to the washer and bolt. One is a black wire with a white stripe.

I'm going to take off that ground and give it a good cleaning later.

I "cleaned" the battery cables and the ground by the fender. I don't think that made a difference at all they look brand new still after a year.

When I did Sleeper Z's voltage test with the mutlimeter I set it to DCV 20, I touched the battery cable with the positive and used the negative on the firewall. The voltage would flucuate between 0.04 and 0.61. Not less than zero but 0.04 is close.

Also my negative is missing the star washer. I'll order a star washer set.

 

Well my negative is missing the star washer on the atlernator bracket. However, I'm going to assume it's been missing for a year. When did they symptoms start with your Chevelle after you forgot to put the washer there?

It could very well be the problem and I am going to order one of those star washer assortment kits and put one on there.

Also the washer for the ground at the fender and the ground on the firewall are both just rest. The fender ground cable is new and only a year old but the old washer/screw are rusty as hell. Even after scuffing it with sandpaper.

 

You have a bad ground if your not reading 12 - 13 volts when you did your test. So somewhere between the ground from your battery terminal to the fire wall is a bad connection. Make sure your touching bare metal on the fire wall. You fix that and it should solve your problem. Good luck

 

Make sure your going positive on the battery terminal to negative on the firewall with the volt meter. Not negative to negative for there will be no voltage reading.

 

That's how I did it. Red on red and black on metal.

I'll try cleaning everything and replacing/adding star washers.

Noob question, do you by any chance know what that black and white stripped wire could be? I'll post a picture later.

 

Black w/ white stripe is the ground for the stuff that connects to the ECM. No need for a pic. Should go to a bolt on the back of the head.

The ground strap is (was) just exactly that... it's a strap of bare braided copper, with an eye terminal at each end, that goes (went) from the back of the head to the firewall. Usually the same bolt that the blk/wht also goes to. Doesn't particularly matter whether it's still just exactly that or not though, just as long as it's a good-sized conductor. Seems like the strap is about #6 from the factory. Anything #6 or larger would work. Even a short battery-cable-like thing.

But none of that matters quite yet. None of it has to be present, or to work, for the car to crank. As long as +12V makes it to the starter solenoid big post, and as long as it can make it from there to the ign sw and back out to the S terminal of the starter; and as long as the - side of the batt is connected to the block and the block is connected to the starter, it will crank. Your car doesn't have VATS or any of that IIRC, which would require anything inside the car to be electrically functional, in order for the car to crank.

Now, it DOES require more for the car to RUN. Being EFI there are all manner of electronic things that have to function for that to happen. But, one thing at a time. Likewise, the connection at the fender is not required for the car to crank.

You say your neg cable goes to the alt bracket... yes some of these cars were set up that way from the factory... how well is the alt bracket bolted to the rest of the motor? All of its connections where it touches whatever, nice & clean? The star washer isn't "necessary" BTW, not to get the car to crank or run; it kind of is over the long term, to KEEP it that way, but not to just get it to work. As long as the connection is clean, it should be totally adequate to the task at hand.

 

It’s probably the ground wire for your distributor

 

The dist is grounded by being stuck in the intake.

Blk/wht is the ground for various stuff connected to the ECM, including the ECM itself.

 

So are you still lacking a Braided Ground strap from the back of the Block to the firewall ???

You SHOULD have a braided ground strap here; if you don't - get 1. It connects to the block on the same spot as the BLACK/White wire, the other end gets screwed to the firewall. ( similar to the pic Sleeper Z posted. )

 

It took a while, I went to the store one day, ran fine going, went to leave, and I got about a tenth of a crank out of the starter, and everything went dead. Even though the connection was fairly tight, it still lost contact and had no power to the car..

 

So after 2 weeks, my star washers finally arrived. I added one to the ground on the alternator bracket. Doing so, my cars electrical comes on but as soon as I turn the key to start everything dies again and stays dead for a good 15 to 30 minutes.

I checked the battery level it's holding at 12.68 and I tried jumping it with the Jump Box but it made no difference. I cleaned off all of the grounds again for the hell of it and made no more difference.
Any idea what else it could be? I did a multimeter drop test on the battery cables. I only lose 0.04 on the positive and 0.06 on the negative.

 

You still have a bad connection somewhere. Something to do with a battery cable.

 

Check all the bolts holding the bracket to the engine for cleanliness and tightness. As an alternative test, move the ground from the alternator bracket to the block or cylinder head.

 

All the bolts are tight and have been but they are the original bolts and have surface rust. Does anyone know what size they are?
Where can I ground cable on the block or cylinder head? I don't have to take off the valve covers to ground it to the head do I?

 

Grounded to the alt bracket is fine... it's a ginormous slab of metal, solidly grounded to the intake, the head, and the water pump. It's the factory arrangement, and worked fine for … how many years now? Although, it wouldn't hurt to take it off and make sure all those connections are clean.

I'm betting though, you'll find the problem is a battery cable. If I was working on it, I would have taken both batt cables off and inspected them closely at both ends; maybe, as cheeeeep as battery cables are in the Big Picture, just replaced them. IMO you have about 90 - 95% odds that that's where the problem will be found. The other 5 - 10% is that it will be the one ring terminal at the starter solenoid that both fusible links are crimped into.

 

I'll probably just have the car towed to my buddy's shop who did the cables then. Ordering them at this point would take two weeks to get here. It took those ACDelco side terminal bolts over a week from O'Reillys even with next day delivery. COVID has made shipping a PITA. But they are under warranty and towing is free through AAA, so I'll just do that and hopefully that fixes everything.

 

Finally an update. I called AAA to see if they could get my car jumped after cleaning the grounds and adding that washer. I wonder if it simply didn't have enough battery underload. After, five minutes the tow truck drive said put the car in neutral and start it. Your neutral safety switch is shot. He said he has seen a ton of old Chevys act the same way when the neutral safety switch is bad.
Sure enough I put it in neutral and it starts with no problem! If I try starting it in park, it acts like it's dead again and I have to get my jump box to jump the car in neutral. The only way it works in Park is if I really quick push my shift up from First into Park.
I'm going to order a new Neutral Safety Switch.