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Is it possible to design a Kill Switch circuit that would cause the car to "slow crank" ( without starting or attempting to start ) and then only provide "Solenoid Clicks", simulating a Dead Battery ?
Our switch cuts power to the starter so it doesn't crank at all (just like a really dead battery). Cutting power to the starter is the easiest way and most universal way of making a kill switch (works no matter what motor or other setup you have, carb or fuel injected). You could kill the fuel part of the car if your fuel injected by disabling the fuel pump, similar concept you would just interrupt the wire that activates the fuel pump relay. Car would turn over like normal but wouldn't start without fuel. You could use our product to do this except you would need to wire it differently than what is listed in the instructions. 1982-92 Camaro/Firebird Starter Disable Device (screamingchicken.com)
The more a potential thief would crank your car with either the fuel pump circuit or the ignition circuit disabled, the more it will simulate a dead battery, and it wont take long.
Back in the day, I used to use the cigarette lighter for this purpose to ground the ignition. Push it in, car disabled. Pull it out, starts normally.
My TAs are never out of my sight, so I don't much worry about it these days.
Our switch cuts power to the starter so it doesn't crank at all (just like a really dead battery). Cutting power to the starter is the easiest way and most universal way of making a kill switch (works no matter what motor or other setup you have, carb or fuel injected). You could kill the fuel part of the car if your fuel injected by disabling the fuel pump, similar concept you would just interrupt the wire that activates the fuel pump relay. Car would turn over like normal but wouldn't start without fuel. You could use our product to do this except you would need to wire it differently than what is listed in the instructions. 1982-92 Camaro/Firebird Starter Disable Device (screamingchicken.com)
With all due respect to the point your trying to make here;
" you would just interrupt the wire that activates the fuel pump relay "
This, in itself, would only slow the thief down for the amount of time it would take for the cranking engine to build oil pressure, and then it'd be off to the races.
A quick look at this 1992 5.7L TPI wiring diagram shows why disabling the fuel pump relay's activation signal wouldn't work, the relay's switched contacts being in parallel with the "fuel pump oil pressure switch"......
With all due respect to the point your trying to make here;
" you would just interrupt the wire that activates the fuel pump relay "
This, in itself, would only slow the thief down for the amount of time it would take for the cranking engine to build oil pressure, and then it'd be off to the races.
A quick look at this 1992 5.7L TPI wiring diagram shows why disabling the fuel pump relay's activation signal wouldn't work, the relay's switched contacts being in parallel with the "fuel pump oil pressure switch"......
OP looks to be doing an LS swap based on their profile, so original wiring could be quite different compared to a stock TPI car. I designed the kit we sell to deactivate the starter wire since that works on cars with swaps or original cars and is fairly easy to install compared to deactivating the fuel side of starting the car. On 30+ year old cars it's difficult to predict what the end user is working with. Since it is a relay and a button it could be reconfigured to function differently if the user wants. Nothing will prevent every thief the whole idea on our product is to slow them down or discourage them from spending time on it. Hopefully most thieves would assume it's a low battery and move on to an easier target.
OP looks to be doing an LS swap based on their profile, so original wiring could be quite different compared to a stock TPI car. I designed the kit we sell to deactivate the starter wire since that works on cars with swaps or original cars and is fairly easy to install compared to deactivating the fuel side of starting the car. On 30+ year old cars it's difficult to predict what the end user is working with. Since it is a relay and a button it could be reconfigured to function differently if the user wants. Nothing will prevent every thief the whole idea on our product is to slow them down or discourage them from spending time on it. Hopefully most thieves would assume it's a low battery and move on to an easier target.
Yes, it's a 427 LS Stroker / 4L85E swap, with a Strange S60 rear end . . . 1989 RS Camaro . . The IROC was stolen ( before the swap ), crashed and burned . . . a total loss.
So,if you kill power to the Starter Solenoid AND kill power to the Fuel Pump, on separate circuits, the car should be fairly well protected, at least against someone who doesn't show up with a Tow Truck or a Flat Bed ?
Not to nit-pick, but what is being described here is not a "kill switch", but rather an imobilizer (or home made VATS). A kill switch cuts off ALL power from the battery to the vehicle, such as that switch you see on the back of race cars. I think the most simple way to achieve the goal of O.P. would be a hidden switch wired into the Neutral Safety Switch, or a hidden switch inline with the 12v+ ignition wire. The former results in no crank, and the latter results in no spark (so no start or run)...
I think the most simple way to achieve the goal of O.P. would be a hidden switch wired into the Neutral Safety Switch, or a hidden switch inline with the 12v+ ignition wire. The former results in no crank, and the latter results in no spark (so no start or run)...
That's an interesting idea . . . The Neutral Safety Switch would not be likely to be suspected by car thieves and impossible to get to by "conventional means" !
Is it possible to design a Kill Switch circuit that would cause the car to "slow crank" YES *1
( without starting or attempting to start ) and then only provide "Solenoid Clicks", simulating a Dead Battery ? YES *2
How would such a circuit be designed ?
*1 = However I can not see a way to do this without some minor unwanted abuse to the Stater Motor (shortening it's life some).
*2 = However I can not see a way to do this without MAJOR unwanted damage to the Starter Motor (Requiring frequent Starter Motor Replacements, if you do not want to get stranded somewhere).
*1 = However I can not see a way to do this without some minor unwanted abuse to the Stater Motor (shortening it's life some).
*2 = However I can not see a way to do this without MAJOR unwanted damage to the Starter Motor (Requiring frequent Starter Motor Replacements, if you do not want to get stranded somewhere).
Wouldn't that depend on how many times someone tries to steal the car ?
Actually, I was thinking about wiring in a "Decoy Starter Solenoid" whose sole purpose is to click rapidly when the key is turned . . . Turn off the Immobilizer and all is well.
Wouldn't that depend on how many times someone tries to steal the car ?
Actually, I was thinking about wiring in a "Decoy Starter Solenoid
Don't you think that's just a bit ridiculous? Do you have thieves in your 'hood that are going to break into the car, do whatever they feel they need to do to the ignition switch to try to get it started, and then when it doesn't start, pop the hood and start looking for decoy parts in the middle of the night?
Give me a break!
Just forgot about all this. Keep the car in a locked garage, or when you go somewhere, keep it within view, as I do.
Better yet,.......Design a "quick release" battery holdown," and just carry the battery into the restaurant with you next time you have a night out.
Don't you think that's just a bit ridiculous? Do you have thieves in your 'hood that are going to break into the car, do whatever they feel they need to do to the ignition switch to try to get it started, and then when it doesn't start, pop the hood and start looking for decoy parts in the middle of the night?
Give me a break!
Just forgot about all this. Keep the car in a locked garage, or when you go somewhere, keep it within view, as I do.
Better yet,.......Design a "quick release" battery holdown," and just carry the battery into the restaurant with you next time you have a night out.
I will assume that you simply misunderstood what I said . . .
One of the last posters suggested wiringi into the Neutral Safety Switch, which I think is a very interesting idea.
My logic behind a "decoy" Starter Solenoid would only be to convince thieves that the car had a dead battery, rather than a kill-immobilization system.
As for them "popping the hood.", good luck with that . . . This car will have keyed hood locks, plus a chain & lock.
I will assume that you simply misunderstood what I said . . .
One of the last posters suggested wiringi into the Neutral Safety Switch, which I think is a very interesting idea.
My logic behind a "decoy" Starter Solenoid would only be to convince thieves that the car had a dead battery, rather than a kill-immobilization system.
As for them "popping the hood.", good luck with that . . . This car will have keyed hood locks, plus a chain & lock.
That is how our kit operates, it wires into the neutral safety switch wiring. On an automatic you can wire into the wiring under the center console which would require the thief to remove the shift plate which would definitely slow him down even if he knew where it was. On my own car I installed the relay on the transmission tunnel and located the button in the center console. It blends into the center console and unless you knew what to look for wouldn't be visible. Short Youtube showing everything
I put another relay on the fuel pump in series with the factory pump. The system will disable that relay until my key fob is detected. Even if they tried to "hot wire" the car under the dash, they couldn't start it.
That is how our kit operates, it wires into the neutral safety switch wiring. On an automatic you can wire into the wiring under the center console which would require the thief to remove the shift plate which would definitely slow him down even if he knew where it was. On my own car I installed the relay on the transmission tunnel and located the button in the center console. It blends into the center console and unless you knew what to look for wouldn't be visible. Short Youtube showing everything https://youtu.be/DEqfLL_AkqE?si=5Coj9qyAu0Wi8wTA
Nice . . . However, your "hidden switch" and its location do not appeal to me . . .
(1) The switch is too "flashy".
(2) The location is way too easy to find.
I am much more "devious", when it comes to choosing & hiding switches . . .
Nice . . . However, your "hidden switch" and its location do not appeal to me . . .
(1) The switch is too "flashy".
(2) The location is way too easy to find.
I am much more "devious", when it comes to choosing & hiding switches . . .
Just an example of an install. The product is very flexible, you can make it easy to get to or as hidden as you want. The power runs through the relay so even if you put the button far away (like the hatch) everything would still work. If you don't hook up the light the button won't light up (you wouldn't see it at all in the video, black button in a black console) No light would make it less "flashy" or you can order it with no button and supply your own. It's made to be an easy install for customers that have limited wiring experience, if you can install a radio you could install this product. You could also use an existing button, like the fog light button or rear defrost for example (fog lights would have to be on or car wouldn't start). All kinds of possibilities.
Just an example of an install. The product is very flexible, you can make it easy to get to or as hidden as you want. The power runs through the relay so even if you put the button far away (like the hatch) everything would still work. If you don't hook up the light the button won't light up (you wouldn't see it at all in the video, black button in a black console) No light would make it less "flashy" or you can order it with no button and supply your own. It's made to be an easy install for customers that have limited wiring experience, if you can install a radio you could install this product. You could also use an existing button, like the fog light button or rear defrost for example (fog lights would have to be on or car wouldn't start). All kinds of possibilities.
Cool . . .
I also toyed with the idea of incorporating a "dummy switch" that says "Starter" on it . . . If you are stupid enough to push it, all Hell breaks loose, with a highly-amplified audio file of a woman "screaming at the top of her lungs" and "gunfire" ( Everybody IGNORES "conventional alarms" ) ! ! !
Also, the thought of a concealed video camera, activated whenever a door is opened ( only active when the alarm is on ) . . . Should make it pretty easy for the Cops to make an arrest and for ME to "spread the Perp's face and identity, all over the internet" !
I just don't feel like any of this is worth doing but, I also really do not like to discourage people from educating them selves on how to do things/ learning.
If you really wanted to do anything relatively similar to what you are thinking, I would do the following:
-1 = Have an actual Starter Motor/ Ignition/ Fuel Pump/ Fuel Injector Disable Circuit (Pick one or more of any Type).
-2 = Have a separate Hidden Starter Motor Solenoid-Actuator that has been removed from a Used Starter Motor (like from one with a dead-spot in the Armature)...
Create a Circuit with a load-resistor that would lower the Circuit voltage enough to make the Solenoid-Actuator just click and clack.
HOWEVER!
The thief is just going to want to try and Jump-Start the Car... Possibly damaging things via an Over Current/ Over Volt scenario.
So... I still feel like this is a bad idea.
Sorry.
