Greetings all! I am dropping an Olds. 455 into my '86 Firebird, or maybe I should say trying to do that. Well me and my girlfriend were test fitting the motor for the first time this evening when I ran into some clearance problems that I was NOT expecting. When I tried to drop the motor in with the stock manifolds it was not happening. The driver side manifold was hitting on everything from the brake booster and lines to steering shaft. On the passenger side the AC and heater pumps/coil was causing me some headache also. (Or maybe it was the frigid weather?) At any rate, to do the job, if I can at all I think I will have to pull out all of the above mention parts, drop in the motor with the manifolds and then put it all back together! Is there an easier way? Has anyone dropped in a 454 and had these kind of problems? Do I just need to sell my monster of a 455, it's making close to 580 lbs/torque and @ 2500 RPM and 520 HP@ 4200 (estimated). I WANT that power but I won't be able to sell the motor and make enough money to build up a 350 that's even anywhere close to that! Suggestions? Advice? HELP! Thanks.

John

 

I would just pull everything out and put the engine in. Sometimes the extra work is well worth it (at least in my limited experience it has been well worth it). like I said above, I'm not very experienced but I would also maybe try an after market steering system and custom routed brake lines etc. Let me know how things turn out; planning a BB 396 for mine.

 

BBC is an easy drop in. It's the Olds, Pontiac, Buick, Caddy that require fabrication and planning to get them to fit.

You do realize that you need to change the tranny since it won't bolt up to a BOP engine.

 

I didn't need to change my tranny, since I'm running a 700 R4, I DID have to buy an adapter plate. So now it'll bolt up to the tranny. I later found out that a 200 R4 has the bolt holes to accept any BOP motor... Oh well, the plate was only $56. I just pulled the brake booster and yanked the brake lines. I also tore out, literally, the AC stuff. (Windows rolled down are going to have to cool me now!) Does anyone know if the exhaust manifolds from the '78-'79 Trans Am 403 Olds will work on my 455? That might provide more room under the hood... Thanks for the input and if you can help some more PLEAS DO!!!

 

I had to set the headers in the engine compartment first, then set the motor in. I am running a BBC427 with the HSC headers. All the info is at www.koolmeister.com

Miles

 

Oh ya. Hooker headers first then the engine goes in. I learned that the hard way. I can pull my engine and have it sitting on an engine stand in 90 minutes.

It took me 9 hours to get my headers in the first time. Most of that time was modifying parts of the car so the headers would fit.

It also didn't help that I have a 7 quart oil pan. After lifting the engine to get the headers in I had to pull the pan off to get the passenger side one in.

Now every time I pull and install the engine the headers stay in place. Some bungy cords hold them up until the engine sits on the mounts.

I think trying to drop in the Olds engine you're going to be totally on your own. It's a nice torque monster to use but not an engine designed for a swap. I'd say you're going to be pulling it out a few times before the job is finally done.

go here http://www.mondello.com/ for Olds performance info.

 

Thanks for the info. What I'm getting though is that I should run headers and not a manifold? I was thinking about getting the manifolds ported but I really just thought that they would be easier, due to there smaller size, to install and save precious space in my engine bay? Will the links above provide me a way of getting custom headers, since they won't have any designed for my application? (That's going to cost some more $$$)

 

Yes, run headers.. the manifolds will take just as much work, if not more, to put in as the headers, but manifolds suck (to be brutally honest, lol).

Also, i remember hearing about some steering shaft clearance problems with 454's and i think i heard something about an aftermarket steering part(s) to solve this. You may wanna look into this. I myself have not done a big block swap (yet) but i've been doing my homework, as i plan to drop a 540 (no typo, hehe) into my Z28 someday.

 

Miles I noticed on your parts list that one of them was two spacer plates. I've never heard/thought of them before. So they raise the motor in the engine bay itself? How much did it raise the motor? Would these same spacer plates work for my 455 Olds? They might just provide the clearance I need to put in the exhaust. Thanks for the help and keep it coming if you've got it!

 

The only spacer I am running is a 1 inch thick 4 hole spacer between the carb and the intake.

Miles

 

Is there some way of putting a plate under my motor mounts to raise the engine to give more room for my exhaust? Or would installing a plate actually narrow the gap for the motor to drop into thus not allowing the motor to bolt down? ANy ideas?

 

The problem with the exhaust isn't the engine height, it's that there is no room under the car for pipes.

The more you raise the engine, the less the HSC fit.

Miles

 

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what HSC means... Could you spell that out for me please? I have a 2 inch cowl hood on my car if that makes a difference. Thanks for your help.

 

HSC = Hooker Super Comp headers for a big block in a 3rd gen. They didn't fit very well for me hence all the modifications, but there 1/2 the price of any others.

 

I like the half price on those headers. So let me get this straight, and I'm really sorry about bugging you with this, but the problem was they were hitting the brake booster? Or was it running into the steering shaft. Because if it was hitting the steering shaft wouldn't raising the engine be beneficial in that clearance, but if it was hitting the brake booster, well raising the engine would only increase the difficulty of the swap. (Which I don't want!)

 

No worries on the questions. The headers clear the steering shaft fine. In fact, the notch in the headers is in the wrong spot by ~1 inch anyways. Nothing hits the brake boosters.

Most of the clearance problems with the headers is on the a-arms, firewall, floorboards, cross member and brake lines. You might want to call Hooker to see what mounts they recommend for the swap. I used 3rd gen style small block frame side mounts and late 60s style clam shells on the engine side.

Go to my page at www.koolmeister.com and check out the section about fit issues. It's all listed there.

Miles

 

Hey jharms, where are you getting the frame mounts from? I need some for a buick 455 that i''m dropping in mine.

 

I found out from Mondello that the Olds. 403, dropped into the '78-'79 Trans Am, the motor mounts will work for that application and mine. I could order it from Mondello for $180 but I thought that was a little high and bought the base plates from a local parts store for $20 but I can't seem to find the mounts that bolt onto the motor, and then to the frame mount. So I might end up spending the $180 after all. That's where I'm getting the motor mounts, but I will say this. I know those Buick 455's are good motors, but if I EVER do a motor swap again in my Firebird I am NOT putting anything but a Chevy motor in my '86 Firebird. It's a shame, but Chevies are the only motor where a LOT of fabrication isn't as necessary.... Good luck with those motor mounts!

PS: I also found out after the fact that the base plate for the '78-'79 403 Olds that I bought is nearly identicle to the base plate for the 305 that I originally had in my car. You might need to fabricate you're own motor mounts for a Buick 455.

 

88 427 CAMARO,

You have obviously survived the endeavor that i have yet to undergo! I am currently installing a 427 into my 84 Camaro. I would love to see as many engine bay pictures as possible. Did you encounter bbc conversion issues such as over heating, fuel starvation, header clearance, rear end, etc. I am all ears to hear about you trials and the success that follows your project.

 

Freeway I wish I could say I "survived" but in reality I didn't. Never got the job done, made to many costly mistakes, had a beautiful little girl on the way and had to sell the car for $3,000 after putting $20,000 in it. Biggest mistake I made? (Other than going with olds instead of a chevy motor) Well that mistake was ripping out all of the wiring. Dropping in a SBC is so MUCH easier than anything else. However if you're bound and determined to drop in a BBC then I would contact a few guys who did better than me. I do know they have headers specifically for your application that simplify the exhaust issues.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

 

I am starting this very same project (454 swap) in my 88 Firebird this spring. I have done my very fair share of engine installs and parting out of 3rd gen birds.I have one sugestion for ya on dropping the motor in the engine bay. I use to ALWAYS pull/drop the motor from a 3rd gen fron the top of the bay until I decided to try doing everything from under the car.jack up the back of the car and place one wheels and tire (inflated) laying down under each rear wheel.this gives you more lift height on the front of the car.jack up the front of your car,place a 4 wheeles dolly under each rotor (yes remove wheels)unbolt your front k-member from you car, remove your filler plate that yout turn signals are mounted onto.this gives you access to you inner metal bumper.wrap a long enough chain that inner bumper.now you will lift the car with a cherry picker.pull out the k-member/suspension.lower the car on jacks stands and now use the cherry picker to mount the motor the the k-member. after that hook the cherry picker back up to the inner metal bumper and jack the car back up.roll the k-member w/the bbc mounted to it under the car and slowly lower the car over the motor.may sound like alot but its atually alot easier and is the only way I am doing my bbc install. if you have a tranny and want to do it all at once then just bolt the tranny to the motor but do not put the tranny cross member on yet.place another small under the tranny and you can do everything at once.

 

dude this thread is from 2002, the o.p went a different route anyways.

 

Honestly I am a little surprised that this thread is still being viewed. There are one's that are dedicated to putting a BBC in a third gen. There is much more valuable information in those posts for that then this one. Remember I TRIED to put in an OLDSMOBILE motor.

John

 

I know this is raising the dead. But I don't understanded why u couldn't get the 455 in the 3rd gen. I removed my Olds 307 (which I installed) out my camaro and traded it for a 455. And I had plenty of clearance with a 307 and I highly doubt i will be having any clearance problems (i know the 455 is 1 inch taller) I ran both headers and manifolds at one time with the 307. I was just curious what problems u had. Now saying this I havn't installed my 455 yet. Now if the brake booster was the problem. Oldsmobile from the factory made notched valve cover for booster issues.

 

Well Rock Star I'm trying to think back that far to the problems. As I read my former post some memories returned. The nail in the coffin was the wiring harness that I ripped out.

As far as exhaust well the headers that Mondello offered for my application (allegedly) required to much work in my opinion to fit. I would have had to cut or severely beat in the frame in order to make it work, it was hitting under the car and not allowing it to raise. It turned out that the W/Z(?) exhaust manifolds (they were the better flowing ones that came on the W30 option for the 455) bolted in perfectly.

If i remember the brake booster issue could have been resolved but I just didn't have the time/money/resolve to do it anymore. It was my first car project, reallly didn't have a lot of skill to carry my through it, and my money ran out when I got married. (Not that I regret getting married.)

To sum up, could it have worked? YES! I just didn't have the skill to overcome the minor fabrication issues that were needed. You will need a cowl hood though. (Of course I was using a single plane manifold.)

If you have any more questions I would be glad to help, if I can remember.

John

 

What u did go with... man I wish I was here to help I could have anwser all your problem being. I have dealt with all of them.

The problem with headers is the primaries are too big. The pipes on a Olds is typical 1 3/4. Where most Chevy for a camaro is 1 1/2 and that alot when it come to squeezing 4 pipes together I had headers on my 307 it took a week to install them. I was going to run w/z with the 455, but I have now I thinking of a twin turbo set up since my work has a machine shop now. IDK yet through. It would change my whole build.

I had a performer Rpm on my Olds 307 (which is the dual plane high raise) so hood mods. Has already been addressed. Thanks I was just wondering.

When I installed my 307 I welded the lower half of the motor mount to the frame. I took a wiring harass out of a carbed camaro and wired it for my simple 307. I also installed an A/c deletion box for extra clearance. Umm what else. I had a th-350 but gas was horrible so I got BOP adaptar for a Th-700r4 and installed that.

OOO yeah Mondello is a legend an all. But it horrible pricing and customer service. There are about 5 or 6 other very good Olds Performace Shop around.

This is the 307 right before I pulled it out I already started loosen stuff so don't pay attention to that. I installed it in 2004 and traded it in 2009. It was a backyard build. Nothing special. Actually surprized it look this good. After how I didn't even prep the block to paint. But over the years I added parts and try to install everything in a professional manner. I was goin to install a 403 in its place but the one in the garage needs to be rebuilt. Then I came across a guy on my Olds forum wanted to trade a running 455 for a running 307 staight up. The price was I had to pulled both engines and put in the 307 in his car cuz of his lack of a engine puller. Long story short I have a running 455 now.

The 307. Complete MSD, Edelbrock Performer RPM, Holley Carb, Electric Fuel pump, Electric Fan, headers, Just all bolt-on except Cam. Still ownly dyno at 166 hp and 218 Ft lbs. But thats 40-50 hp gain over stock at the wheels. But it still had 8:1 CR